DUST Search - [Feedback] Balancing idea for sniper rifles.

Hagintora wrote:

+1 for this idea. Specializing into any weapon or class should mean something, and there should be a clear difference in the different Tiers of each. I feel that the more damage the weapon can do to a target, the longer the range should be. That would effectively put TacSR's at the bottom of the list, and Charged SR's at the top.

It never really made sense to me that while other weapons have an "effective range", the Sniper Rifle never has a reduction in damage. You are always at 100% efficiency when firing at Infantry. Having an actual "effective range" on Sniper Rifles would help alliviate some of the hate that playing a sniper brings you, as well as help balance the role in general. A snipers reach should be far, without a doubt, but the only time a player should be able to reach across the map is if he has put SP's into Sharpshooter, and is rocking ADV or PRO rifles.

I've never heard anyone complain about being shot by a Thale, because people know that you have to pretyy much max out you Sniper Rifle skills just to be able to use one. What I see people complain about the most is being killed by MLT, or Tier 1 SR's from all the way across the map. People feel, and I agree with them, that those players haven't earned the right to be able to that yet. You shouldn't be able to use a starter fit SR, and 1 or 2 shot a heavy from a kilometer away. By adding in a percentage drop in damage, the only way you'd be able to kill an opponent with a low level SR from extreme range, is if they stand there and let you do it. In which case they deserve their fate.


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Jathniel G I A N T 51	Posted - 2013.03.02 00:17:00 - [1] - Quote Heard about some upcoming changes to the AR, where the militia and standard variants will be receiving an accuracy reduction and prototypes, will be receiving an accuracy increase. I didn't look to confirm, but I loved the idea. If someone wants dead-on pinpoint accuracy out the AR, you better spec up, and put some cash into using the higher-end models. As a sniper, I believe the same should be applied to the sniper rifle. Or something similar. You shouldn't be able to take a militia sniper rifle, and hit with both the same range and accuracy as a 50k ISK prototype. I propose adding a VERY soft, yet persistent sway to the Militia sniper rifle and Standard variants, and cutting their range by 15-18% (excluding the 'Farsight' aurum rifle which should have Advanced specs.); Advanced sniper rifles would work as they currently do now; and Prototype snipers receive a 50% reduction in sway-settling time, and no sway penalty with slight movements while crouched. Game Balance Logic for this would be similar to the upcoming AR change. If you want to be sharp, you gotta pay for it. You shouldn't spam cheap fittings, and expect to perform flawlessly. If the cheap stuff performs almost as well as the proto-stuff, you will never have a reason to spec into, and actually use the higher end equipment. This COULD also have the effect of reducing the number of red line snipers that everyone hates so much. If they know that their militia rifle does NOT have the range to hit anyone from the red zone, and they can see this in their accuracy, they will likely reposition themselves elsewhere, or have to risk putting out a more expensive fit. (The MLT and STD sniper rifles will still have the needed range to kill players camping the red line however. They simply won't have the range and accuracy to shoot everywhere else in the map, using a cheap sniper. That kind of range, imho, is something that only higher end sniper rifles should be able to do.) Lore Logic: Militia and Standard sniper rifles are supposed to be crude. Their materials are heavier, clunkier, their operation and balances are flawed. A headshot at 500m should be pure luck with a crumby gun. Meanwhile, the prototype sniper rifles would be made from lighter, stronger materials. They are more elegant and sophisticated in their operation, and not burdensome on the user. Sniping from anywhere on the map, straight across the map should not be an issue for a gun of this quality. Thoughts?
Jathniel G I A N T 53	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:09:00 - [2] - Quote Dominus Fatali wrote: Ha. Considering that they have nearly double the CPU requirement, they are nearly impossible to fit onto a Scout dropsuit with anything that would help you survive. The problem isn't with the weapon, it is with the user. Redline snippers are some of the worst scum in the game; I would rather see someone go 1/9 in the open, trying to capture things, then 4/0 redline snipping. Except if they are enemies, in which case they are easy kills (unless the dreaded Blue-flash strikes). Plus, charge snipper riffles are some of the best there are (at least in my opinion), and are perfect as is. lol. Well, I can take your point on the requirements, but remember that's just the LORE logic. CPU/PG requirements are game balance measurements. lol In light of this, I was proposing making Militia AND Standard grade snipers less rewarding to use, leaving Advanced as is, and making Prototype snipers easier to use. If someone wants to beast with a sniper, they would have to skill into it, and put some pricey fittings on the line. No more of this Lvl 1 Sniper operation being enough to meet all needs, nonsense. Not sure if I can agree to the 1/9 vs. 4/0 comparison, though. The guy going 1/9, just costed us 9 clones, and it's worse if he fails to capture anything in the process. I prefer the 4/0 guy, that might get an occasional kill. Going positive > going negative in a public match. lol Charge Sniper Rifles are already too monstrous to be in the Standard category... With proper fittings, skills, and accuracy they can 1-shot Heavies. That kind of firepower should not be readily accessible, for game balance sake. lol I'd make those Prototype. TheEnd762 wrote: -1 Sniper Rifles are weak enough as is. If anything, they need a reduced reload time, and a rate of fire buff. And a reticule on screen even when not looking through the scope! Well, bare in mind, the negatives would only harm MLT and STD variants. ADV is not effected, and PRO variants will actually be butter-smooth to use compared to their inferior counterparts. When someone skills into ADV and PRO, they will feel the difference. As it stands, a vanilla player with almost no SP allocated can jump into a Sniper starter fit, take aim at someone at ultra-long range (300m+), and still read 100% bullet efficiency on any infantry target. He has no penalty. I have yet to see how much the upcoming hits to MLT and STD variants ARs are going to help, but people are correct to fuss about MLT and STD ARs raping with the same range and accuracy as Adv and Pro variants. I see the same being true for sniper rifles. Further there should be rewards for using your PRO gear, beyond just increased damage: Pro. Snipers have earned the right to shoot across a map, and have reduced and negligible sway. Pro. ARs have earned the right to have focused, concentrated fire and accuracy. If you make the SP investment, the payoff should matter. It's an investment, not a gamble.
Jathniel G I A N T 54	Posted - 2013.03.03 22:20:00 - [3] - Quote trollsroyce wrote: Snipers are fine as they are. A sniper should ALWAYS be on top of the kill count, otherwise another class is doing the sole job of snipers - killing enemies - better. The other classes offset this killing perk of the sniper by toppling the objectives. Again snipers can fight at the frontline, but that is not the class defining perk. What I'd like to change about sniper rifles is the scopes and headshot multipliers. Sniping with a Thale scope (very far zoom) is much more inefficient than sniping with any other scope, because you spot a wider arc for targets on low scopes. Then again the zoom allows excellent headshot fidelity. I'd like tactical snipers to have a headshot speciality - 300% multiplier and thale scope. This would make tacticals ideal for counter sniping and normal rifles for field control with better spotting ability. +1d Tacticals have always been the counter-sniping rifle. Not as efficient for suppression and harassment with such low damage and small clip. A bonus for headshots would be appropriate. But you really think the operation of the MLT and STD sniper rifles are properly balanced currently? Why do you feel that way? I really think the effective range of the lower-end models should take a hit. As it stands, a MLT rifle can hit a target with the same ease as a Kaalakiota, and cause more damage. I was proposing that with a cheap rifle, once you start doing ultra long range sniping with them, you see the %age of your bullet decrease to see 75%, and it gradually falls away more and more, depending on range. I just don't think a cheap clumsy rifle should perform as well as a good one.
Jathniel G I A N T 54	Posted - 2013.03.03 23:23:00 - [4] - Quote Lykos Pyro wrote: i think there should be more difference between baseline and proto snipers, not sure if your suggestion is the best way about it though. i do agree that militia sniper should have a range that is by far shorter than a proto even before skills come into effect. I really think an effective range decrease would help. I don't mean a hard max range cut, just a maximum EFFECTIVE range cut. If you're using a MLT or STD rifle beyond a certain range, your flechette just shouldn't hit with the same crushing force as an ADV or PRO. %age decrease, in low end models. Sway reduction in PRO models. I think it's a good remedy for balancing the difference in sniper rifles, without complex coding to introduce ballistics, AND without messing with sensitive base damages. Again, just an opinion, but I think it's reasonable. If I'm doing mid to semi-long range sniping. A MLT or STD sniper rifle, would still be just as effective. This adjustment will only effect sniping at long/ultra-long range.
Jathniel G I A N T 54	Posted - 2013.03.03 23:27:00 - [5] - Quote Hagintora wrote: +1 for this idea. Specializing into any weapon or class should mean something, and there should be a clear difference in the different Tiers of each. I feel that the more damage the weapon can do to a target, the longer the range should be. That would effectively put TacSR's at the bottom of the list, and Charged SR's at the top. It never really made sense to me that while other weapons have an "effective range", the Sniper Rifle never has a reduction in damage. You are always at 100% efficiency when firing at Infantry. Having an actual "effective range" on Sniper Rifles would help alliviate some of the hate that playing a sniper brings you, as well as help balance the role in general. A snipers reach should be far, without a doubt, but the only time a player should be able to reach across the map is if he has put SP's into Sharpshooter, and is rocking ADV or PRO rifles. I've never heard anyone complain about being shot by a Thale, because people know that you have to pretyy much max out you Sniper Rifle skills just to be able to use one. What I see people complain about the most is being killed by MLT, or Tier 1 SR's from all the way across the map. People feel, and I agree with them, that those players haven't earned the right to be able to that yet. You shouldn't be able to use a starter fit SR, and 1 or 2 shot a heavy from a kilometer away. By adding in a percentage drop in damage, the only way you'd be able to kill an opponent with a low level SR from extreme range, is if they stand there and let you do it. In which case they deserve their fate. Exactly.
Jathniel G I A N T 56	Posted - 2013.03.04 10:06:00 - [6] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: A. There is currently no persistent sway in any Sniper Rifles while standing still. He did not suggest the reduction of scope sway in Prototype weapons, he suggested the addition of scope sway into Militia and Standard, and scope sway is a *****. I think we can all agree that scope sway contributes to inaccuracy greatly, therefore I am correct. B. Since Advanced and Prototype sniper rifles become more accurate due to less sway, people are forced to pay more to get accuracy that should naturally come with the sniper rifle, therefore I am correct. Yes, I PROPOSED the addition of a persistent sway and range cut, OR simply a maximum effective range reduction for MLT and STD variants, but if that seems too high a price to pay how's this? Here it is again, summarized and revised: 1. A very weak, persistent sway AND maximum effective range reduction for MLT snipers ONLY. 2. A maximum effective range reduction for STD snipers ONLY. 3. No change to ADV snipers... 4. A 50% reduction to sway settlement time AND no sway penalty to slight movements while crouched in ADS for PRO snipers. The persistent sway in MLT will not be noticeable for mid to somewhat long ranges. You won't notice the sway at ranges like 60-150m. You will start to notice it past that, around the 200-250m mark, and it should be extremely difficult landing a hit with the sway at ultra long ranges, 350m+. For STD rifles, you won't have the persistent sway, but you will notice that at ultra long ranges your damage will start to drop off quickly. You'll be down to say, 70% impact power at 375m, and by the time you've really pulled back, your damage will bottom out at 50%. Not useless, but not as potent as you want to be. Your ADV snipers is where you want to be, since they will function as current snipers do. Also, ADV snipers don't cost an arm and a leg to deploy. So you are getting your desired efficiency, at a price, that at this point, you should be more than capable of fielding. PRO sniper rifles are where the meat and potatoes are. With my proposal, you're able to line up your shots faster, and make corrections to your position and footing almost without penalty. A bonus that you have worked hard to achieve, and are willing to pay the price for. Hardly anyone complains or bitches about getting shot by a proto-sniper, because they know that person has played hard, and knows what he/she is doing. They know proto-snipers are beast weapons not to be messed with. Accuracy, comes naturally with the increase in SR operation, yes, but I am proposing additional bonuses for the proto-snipers. The bonuses from having level SR operation, would probably nearly eliminate the persistent sway in the MLT sniper. The point is that you should NOT have sniping easy UNTIL you SPEC-IT-UP.