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Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2013.02.26 23:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
It strikes me as odd that as an AV infantry I have no incentive to aim at a tank, but every reason to shoot down a dropship.
For one, tanks have how much HP? Its impossible for one person to take down a tank and even with an entire team trying it might still live. I could spend the entire match trying to down a tank, and get zero credit.
However if I see a dropship I can blast it to a burning crash in about 1-3 shots depending on the weapon. Solo.
I'll get anywhere from 1-7 kills kills plus vehicle destruction. I'll have cost the pilot upwards of 500k ISK and all it took was a free suit or militia gear.
Lets say I manage to kill a tank with tons of people helping and a bad driver who can't duck behind cover often enough. It cost the driver hundreds of thousands less ISK, I'll get a few less kills or maybe no credit at all for my entire match of contribution, if I happen to be ripped to shreds by its gun right before it blows up.
I guess I Don't understand why tanks are so relatively cheap, match winningly useful, and difficult to kill, while lacking much motivation for teams to kill it. Compared to a dropship which is expensive, near useless, gets no credit in matches, is exceptionally easy to kill, in some cases being 1hit KO'd. It comes with a big red target of easy points, a boat load of player kill points the sweet tears of pilot's crying wallets and can be taken down on a solo whim of "hey I'll just swap to free Swarm launcher".
Seems to me that AV is balanced to keep tanks in line either doing a sufficient or poor job at that, while simultaneously making flying a joke. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 23:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
BobThe843CakeMan wrote:u can't single a tank. u obviously never heard of AV nades. ppl kill me solo with those all the time. mixed with swarms.
True I don't use those. But they work well enough on drop ships that I've seen too, furthering my point about this odd discrepancy in the balance of a few factors here. Let me make a chart... |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 23:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Goat of Dover wrote:Not to be ugly but a good DS pilot will take a good bit to take down with swarms. You may make him hide often but it usually takes a good couple shots with a swarm and some help to bring him down. Now with a FG it can be a different story. Tanks as like Bob posted, AV nades and a fast suit is all you need.
Personally as a very tiny boycott against free swarms I have deleted my free swarm suit.
But while the swarms are flying (even if it's only one player) that DS is out of commission. Doing circles around the edge of the map whereas a tank can still be fully operational and devastating under fire.
With one infantry going free swarm to harass a DS, he can't pick up, drop off, or stay around to shoot. Just run like a headless chicken and hope the AV gets bored. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 23:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I'm a dropship pilot, and despite having a fairly survivable fit, I can whole heartedly agree. You can't solo a tank if they're halfway good, I agree. The bad tank drivers who don't know what they're doing, or who have god aweful fits, yea you might get lucky with a nice ambush and take them out.
Anyone better than that? You best be on comms and you best have teammates with descent AV fits who can hear you and will listen to you. Otherwise, it's best just to drop to a militia suit and try to get as many kills as possible as you watch the match dramatically tip in favor of your enemy.
That's kind of what I'm getting at with my horrible 2 minute chart I linked.
There's just something off about all this. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 23:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
BobThe843CakeMan wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:u can't single a tank. u obviously never heard of AV nades. ppl kill me solo with those all the time. mixed with swarms. True I don't use those. But they work well enough on drop ships that I've seen too, furthering my point about this odd discrepancy in the balance of a few factors here. Let me make a chart... The formatting didn't work in post lol. Here's a brief analysis :X http://tinypic.com/r/2nrq69t/7 a tank is worth 600k cheap good fit and up to 2.4 mil. wat tanks r u using tht r so cheap. tell me. :D
Ah, the ones I've been reading about people using on forums.
First, how on earth do you get the cost up to anything near 2 million?
Second Lets adjust and say that's the case. I such a tank I imagine, would never die :X
I thought they were around 600k average for the sort of pub rolling commonly seen. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 00:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
gbghg wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Let's also not forget that unlike tanks, we can't get kills on our own (save the occasional smush), AND our gunners can be killed. When facing skilled opponents, they will focus fire your gunners when you hold the ship steady for them. This is why I prefer shield tanked heavies with an Armor rep as my gunners, so I can actually move the ship before they die.
CCP has some strange logic, that's for sure. If they can shoot in, my passengers should be able to shoot out.
Problem is like he said its not just passengers, its gunners.
If I hop in Zdog's tank or whoever and chill there spraying bullets at people I am invincible.
Not the case with DS gunners and yes in order for them to be able to hit anything you have to stabilize the ship. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 00:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:It strikes me as odd that as an AV infantry I have no incentive to aim at a tank, but every reason to shoot down a dropship.
For one, tanks have how much HP? Its impossible for one person to take down a tank and even with an entire team trying it might still live. I could spend the entire match trying to down a tank, and get zero credit.
However if I see a dropship I can blast it to a burning crash in about 1-3 shots depending on the weapon. Solo.
I'll get anywhere from 1-7 kills kills plus vehicle destruction. I'll have cost the pilot upwards of 500k ISK and all it took was a free suit or militia gear.
Lets say I manage to kill a tank with tons of people helping and a bad driver who can't duck behind cover often enough. It cost the driver hundreds of thousands less ISK, I'll get a few less kills or maybe no credit at all for my entire match of contribution, if I happen to be ripped to shreds by its gun right before it blows up.
I guess I Don't understand why tanks are so relatively cheap, match winningly useful, and difficult to kill, while lacking much motivation for teams to kill it. Compared to a dropship which is expensive, near useless, gets no credit in matches, is exceptionally easy to kill, in some cases being 1hit KO'd. It comes with a big red target of easy points, a boat load of player kill points the sweet tears of pilot's crying wallets and can be taken down on a solo whim of "hey I'll just swap to free Swarm launcher".
Seems to me that AV is balanced to keep tanks in line either doing a sufficient or poor job at that, while simultaneously making flying a joke. Soloing a tank is easy, nice troll. If you can't, your doing it wrong ESPECIALLY for someone skilled into AV
missing point of the thread. I can solo drop ships on an account without a single point spent in AV. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 01:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Nguruthos IX wrote:It strikes me as odd that as an AV infantry I have no incentive to aim at a tank, but every reason to shoot down a dropship.
For one, tanks have how much HP? Its impossible for one person to take down a tank and even with an entire team trying it might still live. I could spend the entire match trying to down a tank, and get zero credit.
However if I see a dropship I can blast it to a burning crash in about 1-3 shots depending on the weapon. Solo.
I'll get anywhere from 1-7 kills kills plus vehicle destruction. I'll have cost the pilot upwards of 500k ISK and all it took was a free suit or militia gear.
Lets say I manage to kill a tank with tons of people helping and a bad driver who can't duck behind cover often enough. It cost the driver hundreds of thousands less ISK, I'll get a few less kills or maybe no credit at all for my entire match of contribution, if I happen to be ripped to shreds by its gun right before it blows up.
I guess I Don't understand why tanks are so relatively cheap, match winningly useful, and difficult to kill, while lacking much motivation for teams to kill it. Compared to a dropship which is expensive, near useless, gets no credit in matches, is exceptionally easy to kill, in some cases being 1hit KO'd. It comes with a big red target of easy points, a boat load of player kill points the sweet tears of pilot's crying wallets and can be taken down on a solo whim of "hey I'll just swap to free Swarm launcher".
Seems to me that AV is balanced to keep tanks in line either doing a sufficient or poor job at that, while simultaneously making flying a joke. Soloing a tank is easy, nice troll. If you can't, your doing it wrong ESPECIALLY for someone skilled into AV missing point of the thread. I can solo drop ships on an account without a single point spent in AV. Mhm, DS's can fit up to 5-6k hp. Same as tank. My alts Myron fits 5k shield. Same as gunnlogi. Where's the difference? Its to much all the way around for AV. DS or tank, skilled AV will **** it, militia can kill both.
tanks fit like 4x the HP as a max DS
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Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 01:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:Well for one, the tank is a Heavy Attack Vehicle while the dropship is a Medium Aircraft, so of course the tank is going to be a little harder to take down. Of course going from the OP if you one hit killed a dropship they must of been using a militia one, in that case militia tanks are pretty easy to kill too.
I really think we're just not seeing the bigger picture at the moment. Right now we're trying to take down tanks with infantry weapons when it appears we should be trying to take them out with turret installations, however the only ones we get at the moment are horribly placed and very weakly defensed. Wait until we can buy our own and call those in anywhere. As far as the dropship, they are addressing the war points issue in the next update and maps should be getting bigger as well. My dropship right now can take a few hits from swarms or forge guns so pretty much I never die because I don't pretend I'm a Heavy Aircraft. I just stay back, wait until a sizable crew spawns in my dropship, and then turn on my hardeners and do a quick fly by over the enemy bases and then back to safety to repair from any damage I took.
Well a speced FG can one shot a full tank fitted DS. Not talking militia. Militia FG can 2 shot a militia ds. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 01:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
"lol, again your doing something wrong."
It might be possible to fit more hp on a tank but again, your losing rep power meaning you will die.[/quote]
How am I doing anything wrong? I don't deploy tanks.
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