DUST Search - Fused grenades: Can we do away with them now?

Gunner Nightingale wrote:

Locus nades are pay to win in their current iteration.

The fact that you have a instant nade that has the same effect as the previous locus nades prior to the contact fuse fix is a major problem and one the community has widely spoken on.

Im not against them being in the game but then they need to have a nerf in radius or damage. Perhaps even both. There needs to be a trade off for using a grenade that blows up on contact and isk/aur cost cant be that trade off as its not really a gameplay deterrant.

In fact now weapon, suit, module in this game should be attempted to be risk/reward adjusted using ISK/AUR as the adjustment factor as it isn't a true deterrent in the long run.

It will either create P2W or it will allow ISK rich corps to run a constant barage of gear that others simply couldnt match.

Balance for these things need to be created around weapon tradeoffs risk/reward not anything else.

So if a weapon has a benefit in one area it has to have a deficiency somewhere else.


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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.25 20:13:00 - [1] - Quote I know they are only accessible via a merc pack (and if I understood the new post in the announcements section, for 15 AUR a piece in the marketplace), but they are not right for this game. They need to be replaced by something else. Basically fused grenades make possible grenade spamming similar to that of a month ago, but on steroids. Panic grenades are insta-death if you've taken any damage at all, you cannot run from them, with a nanohive or supply depot you have what equates to a mass driver that does 400~600ish damage (don't recall the exact damage off hand), that doesn't have to be reloaded, is easier to aim, and doesn't even take up a weapon slot. In addition, I think thukker grenades need to stay in the past for the same reasons. In the case that they are not removed, the splash should be reduced to around .5 meters. You get almost a direct hit, fine, it auto explodes and auto-kills. But only if you are a REALLY good shot with it. And while we are on the topic of grenades, I think the grenade indicator needs a LOT of work. Lastly, no, I'm not some noob who got killed by one and is crying OP. I've been in this game for over 6 months now, and after seeing the announcement about fused grenades being AUR bought for the next week, I decided something needed to be said. Link to Post
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.25 21:13:00 - [2] - Quote Illuminaughty-696 wrote: Thukkers are silly. Why can't we buy them with ISK? Now they are just AUR? Really? Lame CCP. Anyway, yeah, they either need to go or they need to be available in some format to everyone. I have plenty of AUR and thukkers are awesome. Then again, that's the problem. lulz, yeah, that IS sort of the issue
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 249	Posted - 2013.02.25 21:16:00 - [3] - Quote KingBabar wrote: 400 000 aur / 15 = 26 666 ikr?
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 249	Posted - 2013.02.26 12:00:00 - [4] - Quote Allowing the auto explode grenades in this game in any form allows this game to devolve into a game where grenades are a win button. AUR users have the ability right now to own people with grenades alone. If we allow ISK variants, then auto explode grenades will take over as main primary weapons. Just as this game isn't tank wars where the battlefield is ruled by tanks, this game also shouldn't become a huge grenade war. Replace them or edit them in order to make them balanced within the limits of other grenades. Reduce the splash radius to a manageable level for such a weapon. I propose .5 meters but I'd be willing to accept any reasonable range change. They need to be reigned in if there are to eventually be ISK variants. .5 meters is a good baseline for an auto explode grenade, and then higher level variants can increase that range slightly with minor damage buffs. I don't want to toss the word "nerf" around, but they need to be balanced with the rest of the game. Allowing only AUR users to access them isn't right either since it then becomes pay-to-win. I think CCP allowed us to get them so cheaply this week is so that they can be tested for adjustment. I'm merely stating my opinion on how they should be adjusted.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 249	Posted - 2013.02.26 13:20:00 - [5] - Quote My issue with them isn't their versatility. It's the same thing you were ranting about a month ago, panic grenades. And just because they cost AUR atm doesn't mean that they always will. Obviously those panic grenades from before were a little more versatile, but they also didn't IMMEDIATELY explode when tossed at your feet.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 251	Posted - 2013.02.26 14:32:00 - [6] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: QQ about grenades... Again. MOAR DEATH! I'm sick of seeing a /0 after anyone's name on the end game screen. The point of "easy mode" devices like Fused Grenades is that noobs remain a threat to the guy in a Proto suit with 6M SP and a 7.2 KDR. Working As Intended. Or the guy in the proto suit can run them and further grief noobs. Just saying this needs to be looked into, especially since they are now 15 AUR a piece
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 251	Posted - 2013.02.26 14:46:00 - [7] - Quote Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Vaerana Myshtana wrote: The point of "easy mode" devices like Fused Grenades is that noobs remain a threat to the guy in a Proto suit with 6M SP and a 7.2 KDR. Working As Intended. Or the guy in the proto suit can run them and further grief noobs. Just saying this needs to be looked into, especially since they are now 15 AUR a piece The guy in the Proto suit has more efficient ways of killing noobs that 15 AUR grenades that come in a two pack. Just about everybody with a KDR over 2.0 has better ways to grief than 15 AUR grenades. I don't see a lot of "rookie" players complaining about grenades, I see a lot of "elite" players. Ahem Rei Shepard wrote: lowratehitman wrote: If anyone has bought a merc pack and recieved the fused grenades,and used them to their enjoyment, those people have no gripes in my opinion. I have bought 2 merc packs and have used 0 of them. I havent used mine either until i read this thread and also bought 2 merc packs (value can't be beat really). Took a suit, dropped down a gauged hive and went to town ....normally i get 5-8 pm's about being a hacker on PC shooters a day and i get to harvest some tears, so far on Dust i got 2 mails total or so. 1 game with Fused nade spam nets me 2 mails lol :p Been a while since i harvested some tears. I really have no issue with the Fused nade itself, but being able to spam em ontop a of a Nano hive or depot is a bit OP, coupled with a Proto Suit so i did not die at all and it lets me keep my nade. Maybe they should change nades & hives and any deployable as expended the moment you throw/use them instead of only losing them on death. Makes sense afterall. This proto suit guy begs to differ with both of your points. I underlined and emboldened the important part about the protosuit for you. A) no complaints B) griefed ppl with fused grenades
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 252	Posted - 2013.02.26 15:04:00 - [8] - Quote lowratehitman wrote: I throw AV grenades at the enemy. Half the time its a blast watching them duck and dive,than feeling duped I just wish the AV grenades would explode after a set amount of time, even if they only damage a very small area. Or at least let up pick them back up if we miss.... I hate seeing a perfectly good 'nade lying there all alone in the cold, cold dirt when it could be out there blowing something up...
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 257	Posted - 2013.02.26 18:16:00 - [9] - Quote I can see people building their gameplay around such a tactic, we just don't have enough AUR users who have access to them to see it very much right now. In fact if you've ever watched ReGnuM's first video you'd see just how devastating they can be when used effectively. CCP mentioned a month or two ago that they planned to put thukkers back in play, so it may only be a matter of time until we see this becoming a big problem with regular thukkers instead of AUR grenades. Thukkers would turn this game into a first person grenadier game instead of a first person shooter.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 259	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:53:00 - [10] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Locus nades are pay to win in their current iteration. The fact that you have a instant nade that has the same effect as the previous locus nades prior to the contact fuse fix is a major problem and one the community has widely spoken on. Im not against them being in the game but then they need to have a nerf in radius or damage. Perhaps even both. There needs to be a trade off for using a grenade that blows up on contact and isk/aur cost cant be that trade off as its not really a gameplay deterrant. In fact now weapon, suit, module in this game should be attempted to be risk/reward adjusted using ISK/AUR as the adjustment factor as it isn't a true deterrent in the long run. It will either create P2W or it will allow ISK rich corps to run a constant barage of gear that others simply couldnt match. Balance for these things need to be created around weapon tradeoffs risk/reward not anything else. So if a weapon has a benefit in one area it has to have a deficiency somewhere else. Yep, that's basically what I'm trying to get across to people.

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 259	Posted - 2013.02.27 12:24:00 - [11] - Quote Soo... just under 300ish then?
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 259	Posted - 2013.02.27 13:00:00 - [12] - Quote RHYTHMIK Designs wrote: FYI...the fused nades on the Raider scout can only be used w/ that suit. Well that's definitely a bit of weight off the issue. However, the issue diminishing doesn't mean it's no longer an issue. Thank you for that info though.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 259	Posted - 2013.02.27 13:11:00 - [13] - Quote Kaeralli Sturmovos wrote: fuzed grenades: the lazy mans gernade Emeril's guide how to learn to cook like a pro BAM!!! Sure, cooking grenades is a blast (no pun intended), but so is whipping a fused grenade at someones feet. They think "Ha ha, I'll just strafe away while I keep shoot-" BLAAAAM!!!