I'm new to the discussion, but as I see it the devs are going to have to make planetary ownership more expensive overall if they want DUST to be an ISK sink for EVE.

My reasoning;

It has to be cheaper for an EVE corp to employ DUST mercs than to just use their own ships to battle it out.

It there is no economic incentive it won't happen, and if there is an economic incentive it will be a net ISK gain for EVE.


So if no economic incentive curretnly exists to encourage hiring mercs, CCP has to add one.

They could increase the total cost of taking a planet with EVE resources only, or they could outright make it impossible if the other side hired mercs to defend it.

Then hiring mercs would end up costing EVE corps more than they spent in the past, but not as much as not hiring mercs.

CCP FoxFour, what's your thoughts on seasonal Forge Guns that shoot fireworks instead of live ammunition?

What about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx_7PapY_c

This warms my heart.

I know it has been said many times, because it is important and a good point, that Dust and EVE must take baby steps into integration to maintain the stability of both games.

I fully admit to being overzealous when it comes to wanting a stronger connection between the two games. I also understand CCP has to be very careful when merging the two to make sure that each can stand on it's own in the catastrophic event that one of the other dies.

That being said...

I want all the things!

I try not to approach it from an EVE-centric, or a Dust-centric viewpoint. I try to have a more New Eden-centric viewpoint. I don't think either game is in danger of failscading into non-existence, but I DO think that the interaction between the two is probably the most fascinating selling point for both titles.

If I had it my way, all Dust characters could do everything EVE characters could do, and vise verse. I want to be able to buy and place CRUs in EVE, and station trade in Dust. I know this is what's being worked towards, and is probably a big part of the "10 Year Plan," so I am working on my patience skill (injected, still not trained).

I think district ownership is one of those areas of both games where CCP can start "testing the waters," if you will, on interfaces that effect both the EVE, and the Dust client (and thus New Eden as a whole).

Personally, I'd love to see all new features added into both games take into consideration their respective counterparts. I imagine this will become more important as time goes on and both games become more fully connected.

...Still super excited for this next update

just as idea to throw out, while not simply allow corps to steal stuff from other corps, this gives other corps an incentive to fight and defend.

this could be achieved by limiting how much stuff a dust player can acquire and must rent out space in a warehouse or something.so if you want lots of gear best get into a corp, want some shiny new toys without paying for it, steal it from someone.

just a base idea but taking something that does not belong to you, is the base cause for most of human conflict

Regarding off-hours attacks:

I talked a little about this here ( https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=583770#post583770 ), but it was pretty bland.

There are two potential sources of defenders aside from the holding corp (DefCorp).

One is an Ongoing Guard Contract (OGC)- a negotiated contract in which another merc company agrees to defend your district for X fee per merc per battle, plus Y bonus per merc per battle if they win.

The other is Instant Battle folks, paid at a generic X per merc per battle divided up like the current pub match payouts.

So, if your district is attacked (with no timer), all of your corpies online at the time and all of your OGC mercs online at the time get a BIG FLASHING ALERT that there is a Corp Battle imminent.

From that moment, a 15-minute timer starts. This is to allow potential defenders time to get out of matches, call their friends, etc. The attackers and defenders can deploy into their War Barges and get ready. Periodically, more BIG FLASHING ALERTS appear to any member of the DefCorp or OGC who aren't in the War Barge.

At the 13-minute mark, the battle floats into the Instant Battle rotation. Any unfilled slots get populated from the Instant Battle people and the battle starts at the 15-minute mark.

They fight.

At the end, the Instant Battle people get Instant Battle type payouts from the DefCorp. The DefCorp pays the OGC based on the contract. The DefCorp members get nada, but hopefully their bosses will pay them later.

..... What about reinforcement timers that can be influenced by the actions of smaller groups?

Like with what happens currently in Faction Warfare and the "dust influence" affecting the percentages on how easy/hard a system is to capture?

So we take a 12 hour reinforcement timer and for every 8v8 corp battle... shave off thirty minutes? This way we have more collateral damage and generally more combat out of sovereignty conflicts?

If I am an EVE player, and If I have control of multiple systems.... and my planet can only be invaded by a system that is contested or otherwise not under full sov... then that means that my only planets not making money under the worst case scenario are on the front line.

Because... they are my shield planets. They are shielding the rest of my income, which isn't being taxed by constant contracts and battles from mercs. You could even say that the majority of their resources goes to defense, whereas all the planets behind them (in the currently uncontested systems) go straight to my pocket.

Certainly, if we only figured in the income from a front-line tech moon during a war, an alliance would go broke in no time flat. But it doesn't work that way. They have many, many, many tech moons deep inside their space which do not go under attack every week. Why should planets operate differently?

For FW, don't let districts be invaded unless they are on the front -- in a contested system. For nullsec, reality will sort out itself out the same way it does for POS warfare. Someone should probably have to physically fly a war barge over a planet to even begin an invasion campaign and that isn't going to happen deep into enemy territory with much degree of success on the long term. So that solves the profitability problem there, as well.

Am I missing something else?

Because it seems to me that a war-torn world probably shouldn't be making much income, except for the ones doing the fighting and the looting. This problem kind of solves itself.

=> I very much like the idea of attack capabilities being limited to the number of MCC a corp owns. Would avoid brainless spam of district attacks.

=> I very much like the idea of a corp attacking a district taking ownership of it over time if the defender never makes a move. And looting ISK from the wealth it generates. Mechanics of losing\not losing MCC though shouldnt be that strict. A corp should always have the opportunity to back out its MCC, just fleeing the field. (No ISK at all if fleeing)

=> I very much like the idea of standings for defensive contracts. Pretty much like devs already mentionned a long while back.
Give standing requirement to districts so only specific folks can defend it when you decide to actually fight back the intruders.

=> Wardec, meh il like that less. Merc corps shouldnt need to declare war. THey're mercs, they fight. period.

Overall, those ideas are a good way to go i believe.

Timers could be connected to the 'orbit' of your warbarge. Additionally, types of orbits that you choose ahead of time (or are even able to choose) would be based on other hostile district defenses, type of invading war barge, and location of the district on the planet.



Geosynchronous/solar synchronous - period of orbit corresponds to rotation of planet, mainly equatorial in inclination. Advantage: low energy, easy to predict timing, more distance covered. Disadvantage: shorter windows of time in each time zone, move distance (threats) covered.

Geostationary - no period of orbit, remains over one location. Time of attack could occur at any moment, vulnerable from district attack at all times.

Polar orbit - can be used to remain in one hemisphere all day and in half the time zones 2x each day. Inclination is perpendicular to equator.

Halo orbit - using other nearby objects along with organic propulsion for a customised orbit. Higher energy, but useful to precisely time exposure to a specific time zone. Minimal exposure to planetary counter attack.

Then you have other degrees of inclination and eccentricity, closed and escape orbits etc. That 'could' be an aspect of designing an attack; creating an approach for your warbarge that makes it least vulnerable to attack while it is stationing. You could justify a 'stationing' orbital approach as required due to the sensitive nature of nanite equipment and consciousness transferral synchronicity.

Most attacks could occur with a geostationary approach directly over a district, but if you had to stage a minimum of 3 hours ahead of time, that would mean your barge would have 3 hours it could be attacked from the district. Alternatively, you could choose from a customized variety of others to reduce your time over hostile districts, or the time your barge spends in outer-space vs. 'orbital/atmospheric space' vulnerable to eve pilots.

The control % is great idea but I donGÇÖt like the idea of having to be on for 48 hour to make sure the other side doesnt fight back while youGÇÖre asleep pushing you out.

My idea is we have the reinforcement timer as we do in eve but take advantage of the short match turn around that we have in dust and have a battle window where multiple battles occur.

the battle window is from when the first match starts eg 3 hour window and as many matches as possible are done within this window.
Only one battle window (campaign) is open per day and opens around district owners X time the following day.

here is an example of my idea using current match types and a single battle window.

Corp A declares invasion on Corp D at a cost depending on how many other invasions they have active at the time.
Corp D has set a timer on their district of x and the first battle is scheduled for a time +-1/2 hours around x

1st battle is 8v8 ambush map Corp A are attackers Corp D defenders- If defenders win Corp A are pushed off the planet and the invasion fails quickly If Attackers win they gain 5% control bonus to district (cbd) and progress to 2nd battle

2nd battle is 12v12 ambush OMS with Corp A attackers again Corp D defenders - if Attackers win they gain 15% cpd but if defenders win no one gains cpd.

3rd battle varies on previous match result

if Attack won 2nd battle : 3rd round is 16v16 skirmish with Corp A attackers again and Corp D defenders- attackers win means they gain 30% cpd defender wins no CPD is gained either side

if defender won 2nd battle : 3rd round is 8v8 ambush with Corp A defenders and Corp D now the attackers - if Corp D attackers win the gain 5% cpd and push Corp A the defenders off the planet.

With every match attackers win the battles will scale up offering more player spaces and cpd rewards a loss will scale the match down in size and switch the attacker defender roles.

4th battle if the battle window is still open a 4 match can occur following the rule above.


with this system no one Corp can gain full control of a district in one day and no one loss can cancel out all the work (which is currently possible in eve)

District facilities and isk generated from districts can only be earned if a Corp has 60% control or higher meaning with this system it is possible to have long drawn out stalemates where neither Corp can gain advantage and cannot gain benefits of the district promoting important decisions to keep the war going or withdraw and give all control over to the other corp.

with good pushes control of a district will take a couple of days at best and in case of stalemates may cause district to never be won be either side.

Rewards after each battle are in the form of salvage of battlefield winner gaining majority. Isk is only rewared when a merc contract is issued either per match, per battle window (reward split between number of matches and rewarded depending on how many of those one and is given out when window closes), pre district and is only earned once the district is finally captured.

Corp A and Corp D can issue defend/attack contracts to allies corp B/C to fight on there behalf or be issues to them selves to reward there own corp members participating in the battle if they win.

When the battle window is closed corp A or B can choose to withdraw from the district which for a cost gives up control of the district ending the invasion.

OMG OMG OMG OMG YES! And corpses...