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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 69 post(s) |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
206
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Posted - 2013.02.26 03:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:iceyburnz wrote:I don't see why Capsuleers can't just set up merc contracts to attack or defend districts, they put up the money, that way no new money is entering into the system, its just flowing from eve to Dust. And they could put a hard cap for the maximum amount "imposed by concord". The thing is there has to be an ISK answer to the "why" of the Capsuleer putting up the contract. An Eve pilot isn't going to sink money into Dust corps fighting over districts out of the goodness of his heart.
District control affects FW capture status of the system.
I get Beers' point about the cost of a serious battle, but I suspect most district battles will be happy fun fun time with Zion vs. ScIdama or some other no name carebear corp. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
211
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Posted - 2013.02.26 17:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote: I get Beers' point about the cost of a serious battle, but I suspect most district battles will be happy fun fun time with Zion vs. ScIdama or some other no name carebear corp.
Even if both corps are paid 25 mill for a 24v24 match the match is still bad when you add in vehicle/gear costs. Just using the planet being worth 2 bill a month makes district worth about 175 mill a month in isk. At that rate if the owner is attacked and forced to defend 7 times in a month there goes all the value of the district. its not really about which corp its about any corp
Well, again, I think your point as regards highly contested districts is valid- some districts will just not be worth fighting over.
On the other hand, I think MOST districts (after perhaps an initial flurry of activity) will be relatively stable, just like star systems in nullsec.
So, while a capsuleer might have to drop 175M ISK to defend District 4 on Intaki V, most will rarely have to do so.
Indeed, I talked with some capsuleer relatives (RP) and they said that they'd probably use the lowest bidder they could find to do jobs.
That suggests to me that if Corp A is expending 25M ISK in a battle and Corp B is expending 10M ISK, then Corp B is likely to win in the end because they can just keep pummeling Corp A until they go broke.
In my mind, this is how it's supposed to work. Corp battles and/or Merc Contracts should be about expending as little ISK as possible to do the job. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
211
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Free Beers wrote:Also we need to ability to transfer districts to other corps/alliances just like we do Custom Offices now in EvE. YES! I think this may be addressed in that corporations can be allowed to take a district FOR you, but not own the district at the end of the battle. I expect us to be very busy soon (and hopefully with no TM).
ALTHOUGH... I seem to remember one of the devs saying in the podcast that merc corps could own districts themselves.
Food for thought. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
215
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Posted - 2013.02.27 04:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Also, having randoms being part of the FW fights means the Player Owned Districts (POD from now on) can't be tied to FW as i, and many other people i talked with, suspect.
Okay, it's official CCP- you can't call them "Districts" because some people can't use the Shift Key.
Person in Chat: "so i gotz to defind my corps pod an i get podded cuz i got ganked in orbit over my pod an so i tryed to get out of lowsec in my pod an sum dude pods me"
I recommend "Province", "Region", or "Territory" which would give us the following acronyms:
POP: What our antiship cannons will eventually do to eggers. POR: How we feel after fighting to defend our land. POT: *Ahem* {Forum Rules}
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
215
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Posted - 2013.02.27 04:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: You bring up something that has been really hard for us to figure out. There are so many factors that go into it and finding other examples to base ideas off is really hard because almost no one has done this before.
That something is how much will districts change hands once corporations can own them?
I think that depends on a number of factors-
Transport: In EVE, there are distinct routes one must travel to attack systems with say, Tech moons. This does not seem to be an issue in Dust. That can actually help promote conflict as getting there isn't an issue.
Abundance: With 4,000? temperate worlds yielding ~40,000 districts... Not much incentive for conflict unless there are 10,000 or more active corps.
Profitability: If the potential profits from a planet are too high, EVE Alliances will get back-flooded with ISK from their ground pounder members and only TEST and Goon will own anything after a bit. If the profits are too low, nobody will fight for anything except as a last resort.
Diversity: If districts produce a variety of resources, that can be a conflict driver. Requiring player corps to control a wide variety of resource types to achieve optimal profitability or manufacturing efficiency is another factor. For instance, if Magazinium and Lumaminium are both needed to make Assault Rifles, then corps would want to control two districts instead of one.
My solution- Resource depletion and renewal. Make districts "play out" after awhile and require expensive retooling or an annoyingly long cool down period. That makes districts profitable, but only if you keep conquering fresh ones or are patient enough to wait for refreshment. The crummy districts would also make a good source of PVE- from Rogue Drones to scavenging materials. They are also less likely to be well defended, giving newer corps a shot at taking them.
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
218
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Posted - 2013.02.27 14:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Kaeralli Sturmovos wrote: i feel im in agreement with Beers and would like to see a dedicated marketplace for district and/or planet transfer but it cant be solely on ISK alone, a set of exp of the player (if sold to just one merc) and exp of the corp as a sort of requirement IS A MUST! this could be the "wrench" in attackers or defenders planning when it comes to those looking to control the planet.
Why have a market place for districts? Why not a mercenary market place where you can pay people to defend or attack districts?
I think that BOTH are important options.
For instance, if you want to conquer a district, there should definitely be an easy mechanic to pay someone to do it for you.
On the other hand, if I've spent a lot of time conquering, managing, and improving a district ; but, I'm sick of that district or it's not worth it to me to rehabilitate it after the resources run out- why shouldn't I be allowed to sell it?
BTW, we still need a different word than "district" or else they will be PODs. Too many pods in New Eden already.
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
218
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Posted - 2013.02.27 14:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I don't want to wind up in a situation where 24 man corp winds up owning 100 planets because of anti-zerging mechanics and the defending smaller group wins by default by not showing up to any of the fights. Now defending a single planet or two I can see more feasible to hold for a 1 fielder team.
Yes. I think this might be what CCP FoxFour was talking about with the "exponentially" harder to control more space comment.
I can hope. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
218
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Posted - 2013.02.27 18:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:Now to avoid nap fests going on too long you can limit the amount of resources that can be derived from a given district by gradually reducing the amount of it available until you hit a minimum baseline. This would result in a weakness that others can exploit, particularly if you link resource consumption to battles. The more fights in your district, even if you win, will result in repairs needing to be made and disruption to production. This could allow small corps or even individuals into Sovereign wars as they could be used for hit and run tactics, smash and grabs, and espionage to test out or even create instability into the system.
Also resource reduction will result in these static corps moving onto greener pastures. Once this district has changed hands the new corp could use new "methods" to gradually increase production to where it was before it gradually declines again.
I totally agree. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=582470#post582470
A'Real Fury wrote:Within district attacks you could even reduce it to attacking specific building e.g the building where the corp stores some or a lot of their tanks which could then be destroyed or even stolen, though more likely to steal dropsuits, weapons , modules or even the resource being produced.
This is an interesting thought. As I would love to see new battle types, in addition to the poorly-named "Ambush" and "Skirmish", I think this is a good idea.
For my examples, I'm using OGC to mean contracts in which a merc corp is under a standing contract to provide defense of an area and that corp has enough members online at the time to meet the deployment requirements. If not enough people are online, the remainder will fill from Instant Battle folks, with contracted corpies (if any) leading the squads. The defender pays the OGC peeps at a default contract rate.
We could have, for instance:
Raid: 6/6 (30 Clones) {No Warning, OGC only} - The Attackers attempt to fight their way to an objective, hack the objective to get into a base, hack a main door to get trucks out, hack the trucks, and then drive them back to their deployment zone. Defenders win by cloning the Attackers, Attackers keep any loot in the trucks that they get back to their deployment zone, or all of it if they clone the Defenders. This is limited to 10% of the resources or equipment stored in a district.
Pillage: 12/12 (60 Clones) {No Warning, OGC only} - The Attackers attempt to disable a particular structure, either a resource harvester, a factory, a spaceport, or a Skyfire battery. They do this by hacking X number of things for a certain time (like Skirmish 2.0) but not always with NULL cannons. Defenders win by cloning the Attackers, Attackers win by disabling the building or cloning the Defenders. The building is disabled for ((10 + (1/2 Attacker Clones Remaining)) / (Defenders' Average Field Mechanics Skill)) days.
Piracy: 18/18 (80 Clones) {24-Hour Warning, Contracts or OGC} - The Attackers moving a large cargo dropship into orbit alerts the Defenders as to what's coming. The Attackers attempt to capture a landing field by hacking two of three control beacons. Once captured and held for 30 seconds, the cargo dropship lands. Then the Attackers must hack at least one of three automated loaders and hold them for three (3 hacked) to nine (1 hacked) minutes to load the dropship, which then departs. The Defenders win by cloning the Attackers or destroying the dropship. The Attackers win by loading the dropship and allowing it to safely depart the map. Attackers get ALL of the resources and equipment from the district. Note that an active S
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Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
232
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Regarding off-hours attacks:
I talked a little about this here (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=583770#post583770), but it was pretty bland.
There are two potential sources of defenders aside from the holding corp (DefCorp).
One is an Ongoing Guard Contract (OGC)- a negotiated contract in which another merc company agrees to defend your district for X fee per merc per battle, plus Y bonus per merc per battle if they win.
The other is Instant Battle folks, paid at a generic X per merc per battle divided up like the current pub match payouts.
So, if your district is attacked (with no timer), all of your corpies online at the time and all of your OGC mercs online at the time get a BIG FLASHING ALERT that there is a Corp Battle imminent.
From that moment, a 15-minute timer starts. This is to allow potential defenders time to get out of matches, call their friends, etc. The attackers and defenders can deploy into their War Barges and get ready. Periodically, more BIG FLASHING ALERTS appear to any member of the DefCorp or OGC who aren't in the War Barge.
At the 13-minute mark, the battle floats into the Instant Battle rotation. Any unfilled slots get populated from the Instant Battle people and the battle starts at the 15-minute mark.
They fight.
At the end, the Instant Battle people get Instant Battle type payouts from the DefCorp. The DefCorp pays the OGC based on the contract. The DefCorp members get nada, but hopefully their bosses will pay them later. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
234
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Posted - 2013.03.01 00:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote: Having ongoing contracts paid out per battle could work, and it would help reduce the need for a longer delay to have the corps make a deal for a contract.
However, here is the problem that might be minor to some, or major to others. You want your corp's success to be based on your corp as a whole, not 3 dudes from your corp + 5 dudes from another +8 from the contracting corp.
One of the best ways to tell if a corp is worth contracting will be their wins/losses, how will that work in a mixed corp situation? Would the corp get a win or loss for EVERY member participating in the battle? Or just one? To really show the skills of the corp fairly, i would think it would have to be 1 for every member, so the more members a corp has involved, the more it sways their standing. Losing a match where you had 1 corp member in it shouldnt ding your corp the same as one where you had 16.
Well, I think it comes down to relationships. If your corp builds a strong relationship with a large, multi-time zoned corp and negotiates an OGC with them, then you're rarely going to have Instant Battle Blueberries (IBBs). In addition, i think it would be helpful if the people in the War Barge could organize players into Squads and Observers. That way, if your corp has enough players online at the time, you could handle it yourselves and the OGCs could stay and watch or go do something else.
I only suggest putting in the IBBs as a way to make sure that no battlefield is ever totally undefended.
Of course, I would think that since multiple battles are needed to take a district, your would rarely need outsiders except for surprise attacks and raids. |
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