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FW Economic Model Concerns -CCP Nothin-

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 69 post(s)
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 120	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:36:00 - [1] - Quote Hi! I'll add my part in sort of a story. So (fairly) recently there were merc battles between caldari and something else. I forget, but I'm sure someone remembers. It was for story stuff, there were unfortunately no rewards. Player: Ok, if we are fighting for Caldari we have to AFK in the back Me: wtf no Player: come on, everyone is going to be doing it [insert wall of text here] Me: Don't care. Player: [i ]But you have to care! It's [insert more text here][/i] Me: Nope, still don't care. I'm here to shoot people in the face. Player: But it's an important part of the story! Me: Don't care about the story. at this point the player became angry Player: How can you play this game and not care about the story? There's so much going on. You shouldn't be playing it if you're not into the story (or something like that, forgot) Me: Look, I just put over 1.5 mil ISK into play on the field, and I don't have unlimited time so I want to earn as much SP and ISK as I can per match. This stuff doesn't pay for itself. Player: Look, if it's ISK you care about I'll reimburse you for your tank and give you 5mil if you run around killing blue dots and making it as easy as possible for the red dots to win. Me: Oh? How much do I get if we still lose? Player: I'll reimburse you for your tank and pay you 1mil. Me: ok, NOW I care. ** these calamari bitches! DEATH TO ALL BLUE DOTS!** Anyways, I hope that you, the devs, will be able to make the fac war stuff not lose the merc aspect. I was extremely happy that this was happening, because (for me) this is how the game should be. I'm mercing stuff, idc for who or why. The difficulty might be for corps that do stuff EVE side too. I'm in a corp and alliance that I'm pretty sure is in fac warfare. From what I've heard, they have to do a bunch of work to get on a side or something and fight for it, but once they are there it's hard to switch. I don't want this to happen with DUST. Sure, the corps can tell the Dust players what to do (and pay them!) but I would be very unhappy if the game did not allow me to merc for other sides/people, or made it hard to do so. So please, do the stuff for peeps who care about Eve and lore. Hopefully you can also make it so that the people who care more about the $ and killing other mercs can enjoy fac warfare or whatever w/o getting forced (by the game) to care about lore and factions. I'm not against corps choosing what they want their peeps to do, I just want to have the freedom for them to choose. I got a bit worried about this because I saw stuff from Eve players (it was a meeting or something?) They said they were afraid that Dust mercs wouldn't care about who they were fighting for and why. I just don't want to be forced to care, unless of course, I'm getting as much ISK as I can from the highest bidder. =]
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 120	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:48:00 - [2] - Quote Also, 15 to 25 mil ISK is the break-even point against a good team. (This includes tanks, gear, etc., etc.) 50m is where you start to make a good profit in 8 v 8. "Good profit" as in it's worth it for the players to go all out, and if they win they'll make enough money to pay for gear lost and additional gear for the next fight. Given 50 mil isk contracts, I feel like I would make enough ISK from proto vs proto battles against skilled players than I would from Pub stomping. Sagaris and Surya (well fitted) are between 2mil and 3mil isk each. Lose three, and that's six to nine mil in tank alone. The good dropsuits (proto load out) seem to be around 200k ISK each. If each player dies five times, that's one mil isk lost for each player. For eight man teams, that's 8mil isk. That also doesn't include other vehicles (like LAVs, dropships, etc., etc.) The large contracts are unusual, but this is just what I've seen from the few large contracts that I have participated in.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 121	Posted - 2013.02.26 19:51:00 - [3] - Quote Free Beers wrote: You may want to fight but have no one to fight so you get to pub stomp =[ I thought we agreed that we'd be on different sides of fac warfare. I don't want to spend my whole life destroying noob corps and pub stomping! Maybe we'll have to go talk to What the French. Hopefully they can take your place xD. edit: Hopefully it doesn't seem like I'm insulting WTF. They are a good corp. We are excited and hopeful that we can get some dedicated corp battle servers so there's almost no lag on both sides. ^.^
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 121	Posted - 2013.02.26 20:08:00 - [4] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Now take that 8v8 and push it to 24 v 24 and you see my concern with it. I know what we lostvs teams in the tourny with 15 v 15 and its gets expensive quick. Yah, that's why I put it down there! There are few corp battles who battle where both sides go all out in proto and both sides suffer heavy losses. I think a large part of the problem is that there's not enough of a reward for corps to do so. I have no idea how to fix this problem, but I hope that the game will be balanced around hard corp battles, and not the pub-stompy type. Free Beers wrote: I really think the only way for corp battles to important to mercs is if there is a lot of npc direct and indirect compensation. if the districts if only think of value then it will force dust mercs to have to hold/own districts to make a profit and frankly thats a horrid idea. I have no clue what the EVE side is like. I don't know if this is reasonable, or done, or thought about, so I might sound a little insane, but... It'd be cool if Eve corps made $ from holding planets? If they have an income stream there'd be some incentive to hold the planet. Lore-wise, just say there's a valuable resource like oil on the planet, so mercs have to fight over who controls the oil (and the pilots don't want to blow up the planet because they want the oil) or something like that... That might make it so mercs can fight over districts of a planet too. More than one corp could claim a district on a planet. Make a few locations net the same profit as maybe even a hundred of the other locations. That way there'll be something for large corps to zerg, but there's also something that quality mercs can be hired to fight for.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 121	Posted - 2013.02.26 20:58:00 - [5] - Quote LXicon wrote: was Caldari vs. MorduGÇÖs Legion. yes it was, thanks ^_^ Delirium Inferno wrote: We go into battle against several corps running all proto gear and I am convinced at the end of they day even though we lost the contract they lost more ISK. It's silly. It is. That's why most peeps play pub matches in MLT gear. In corp battles, it's more like "don't be an idiot and lose it" or just don't use it at all. I like using weaker gear in pub games because it's more fun, but there needs to be some time when I can pull out the nice stuff. Soraya Xel wrote: I view there being a tangible future benefit to DUST mercs being allied with specific corporations and alliances, in order to have a home, infrastructure, industry, etc. Meanwhile, a friend says that as "mercenaries", DUST players should be responsible to no one, not ally with any specific EVE forces, and work for the highest bidder, in whatever realm of space that might be. I want both =]. I just don't want Dust mercs to be restricted by the game itself. Think about it this way: > my corp wants to get a location > sets up a team and attacks > defender wants to hold the location, pays me tons of ISK if I merc for them > Now I can choose what to do. ATM I can just get invited to the defender's side and join the corp battle for their team that way. That's cool. I just don't want to have to go through a ton of fac stuff to do it. and then... > My corp decides what to do with me =] Basically, I like being able to make choices for myself, and there are consequences too. There are many reasons why I might go either way. Let's say my corp has promised or been paid to send one player merc to other corp if they are attacked. Maybe our corp wants to battle with another corp in our alliance, and the other member needs +1 merc. I like the merc aspect of the game. I don't want to lose it. Alliances and actions players take in them should be decided by the alliance or corp, and not by CCP :D CCP FoxFour wrote: Why just your stuff? If you hold the field why not loot the whole field? Honest question. That'd be cool too. edit: read above posts, and yah, keeping the two games independent would fix the mercs relying on eve constraints problem ^.^
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 121	Posted - 2013.02.26 21:13:00 - [6] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: I definitely agree that there needs to be a time to use all the nice stuff, but there also needs to be a place for start up corps to battle other corps around their level outside of public matches. I agree. My solution is that we should be getting better compensation from corp battles. If there are 100m or 200m ISK rewards for contracts up, there's no need for a big corp to take a 200k one.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 121	Posted - 2013.02.26 21:19:00 - [7] - Quote Right now there's almost never an ISK incentive to do a corp battle. I like them, but I still have to get all of my isk from pub stomping. Giving me isk from pve isn't going to make me feel better either, as I want to have organized matches against decent opponents!
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 121	Posted - 2013.02.26 21:21:00 - [8] - Quote I'm not paid to be a merc, I'm paid to farm random, new, and unorganized blue dots in pub games
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 122	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:03:00 - [9] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Anyways, what if once you own whatever you think you can you still wanted to attack. Not because you want more stuff, but because after an attack the winner walks away with more than they would have if they sat there and did nothing. So you can sit there and just make money, but attacking without the intention to take ownership gives you the chance to make more money. If it's an initial "NPC reward", corps can just attack themselves for $. Will the reward from attacking be more than not even if you lose control because the mercs you paid have finished their contract? It seems risky -.0 I think it's highly likely that you'll get a monopoly like IRL. Corps will just have agreements with each other not to attack themselves, because everyone will make more isk if no one has to spend resources to defend.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 122	Posted - 2013.02.26 22:26:00 - [10] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Dust needs to retain the fps part when it comes to simplicity. In eve its hurry up and wait for fleet battles or fleet roams. Hell even hisec wardecs are cat and mouse. In dust it is log in, count heads, find contracts, shoot face. Yah, good point. Long term is important to EVE, but immediate reward for us in FPS ^.^ Right now you have to just sit around and wait for a decent contract to come up, or it takes a LONG time to set one up =/ constant conflict is fun.

0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2013.02.27 04:20:00 - [11] - Quote Oh wow. My earlier posts would have been better if I hadn't skipped to the dev comments on Page 3 w/o reading the rest of the thread. LOL!
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2013.02.27 04:44:00 - [12] - Quote Also, there's a very good chance that those 300 spartans did nothing to stop the invasion and just got shot by a ton of arrows. A story was made up about how heroic they were because... their side won =]

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