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Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.26 11:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:Suggestion:
Count being in MCC or Redzone as "not in game".
No. You are in-game the moment you deploy a dropsuit, and are capable of firing a weapon.
Kray Dytt wrote:Reasoning:
I see many complaints on these forums about AFK farming and Redzone Snipers. I think both could be prevented by simply not counting players who are in the MCC or Redzone as participating in the match. Either get out there and fight, or don't get rewarded.
Some people may AFK farm, but some people may have a legitimate situation they need to handle in real life at that very moment. Since they shouldn't have to lose a clone for that, they can run into the safety of their base within red zone, and go take care of it.
"Redzone Sniping" is a legitimate tactic and common sense on YOUR end can stop or prevent it, just like every other form of sniping. Here are some pro tips:
1. Stop foolishly exposing yourself on the red zone, which is the same as walking around in the open in enemy territory.
2. Take cover either near an objective or within armor.
3. Grab a sniper rifle, and counter snipe the offending sniper.
4. Coordinate with a team mate to fly a dropship into the enemy red zone, on a hit and run mission. Fly in, deploy, kill offending targets, and extract yourself before the red zone avenges them.
Kray Dytt wrote:Possible problems:
When a team is "redzoned", one could argue that you're then forced into kamikaze just to get rewards. On the other hand, does it make sense to get rewarded for giving up? (even if you are sniping the enemy, if you're not leaving the redzone you won't be getting objectives...)
Kills made from redzone: sometimes you will make a legitimate kill from the redzone, especially when on a redzoned team. Not counting those would be harsh. But, sniping from redzone for most of the match and then popping out for a minute to make sure your kills count shouldn't be rewarded. Not really sure how to solve this problem, so any ideas are welcome :)
Well done. You just produced the primary counter to your own argument.
No one is getting "rewarded for giving up". They are getting rewarded for participation, which they tried to do, and ended up getting red lined. They can either go ahead and cut their losses, and receive their pay for a good attempt (which is good for you, because you lose nothing when they don't attack), or we can say, "Begun, the Clone War has..." and the skirmish can turn into a 'race-against-the-MCC' ambush match. This all depends on the conditions leading to that team getting red lined. If conditions do not merit suiciding for an objective, and the clone counts indicate impending doom, then don't expect people to stick their heads out. You are facing human beings, not NPCs which are programmed to allow themselves to be killed by you.
A sniper kill from the redline is just as legit as a kill from any other weapon from the redline. Your inability to flank him with a close-range weapon does not change this. |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.26 13:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:Yet I am forced into a particular playstyle by the system. I am forced to accept that someone can snipe me from a place I can't reach because of an imaginary line created by the system. I'm also forced to accept that fellow mercs who get paid as well don't risk anything (or even do anything for that matter).
Oh wow.... I hope to God, you are not primarily an assault rifle user. These sentences right here convey both ignorance, and a self-centeredness that I find abhorrent.
Firstly, if you play primarily as an assault, you have very little right to say you are being "forced" into anything.
I've played this game for 3 builds, over a period of several months, on two accounts.This makes me a closed beta vet. YOU, have played only since the end of January, you came when we went Open Beta.
You said so yourself here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=535260#post535260
I'm a dedicated sniper, but I have played each and every class dropsuit extensively, and I have played with each and every weapon.
And on this last wipe we had, you know what happened...?
Because of how the game mechanics have been adjusted, I felt I had no choice but to dual-spec. I'm a dedicated sniper, but i felt I had to get Assault Rifle Operation and Assault Dropsuit, because much of the game is now tailored to assaults with assault rifles doing whatever they want on the battlefields with impunity. Everyone else, in particular heavies and snipers have lost many advantages that their specializations use to afford them. Max spec'd assaults with assault rifles kill their heavy and sniper counterparts with impunity.
You have any idea what has happened in YOUR favor over time?
I'm not even going to list it here. You need to spend some time visiting old threads and chatting with closed beta vets to learn more.
Kray Dytt wrote:Ok... yes, you are in the game. But I don't think you should be getting credit for doing nothing.
Why is redline sniping a legitimate tactic? I think it's abusing a system in an unintended way, since it allows people to limit risk significantly.
If someone is earning war points, then they are not "doing nothing".
So define "doing nothing".
A sniper that goes 20/0, 30/0, 40/0 or more in a match is "doing nothing"? That's 20, 30, 40 less enemy spawns that could have hacked a friendly objective or killed you. Folks that try to Rambo the redline like you have probably had their hides saved by snipers/redline snipers on countless occasions, but are so self-centered they are oblivious to the fact. Good snipers are unsung heroes in every pub match they attend.
Limiting risk involves player skill, and has nothing to do with the red line. That nonsense whining you went on about, about being "forced" into a certain gameplay style, is now the VERY thing you are insinuating should be imposed on others. Hypocrisy at its finest!
Kray Dytt wrote:Thanks for the tips though, nothing new but yes, they help circumvent this problem.
So you admit, that the tips I have given you, do infact, circumvent the red line. Yet you continue to call for a systemic change?
Conundrum!
Kray Dytt wrote:I also have to deal with RL things every now and then. Should I still get rewarded while AFK? No.
The "not in game" area is when someone is dead, get over it. Situations arrive in RL while people are alive in-game, get over that too. Not getting your points because you retreat into the redline to AFK and handle a quick urgent matter? Good luck convincing people to support a system that punishes them because they have a life, even while they play.
The current SP system was voted into place. People WANTED a passive SP gain while they were in battle. This was implemented weeks ago. The very system THEY voted for brought on the abuses that you now fuss about.
All this considered, stop playing all of us for fools.
You were given remedies to what you viewed as a problem.
Hit detection adjustments will take care of the rest.
I think we both know that your fuss (and the fuss of everyone that feels as you do) has *nothing* to do with people getting SP and ISK while AFK in an MCC/redline, and has *everything* to do with you being killed by snipers.
Kray Dytt wrote:I'm fine with people cutting their losses, never said otherwise. I'm only opposed to people being rewarded for being AFK and people being able to kill while (almost) untouchable. You say that's wrong of me, but you offer no real arguments.
I disagree with Redline sniper kills being legit, and have stated why I believe. Why do you think it's legit?
First off, prove that redline snipers ARE "(almost) untouchable", because I can factually say in the affirmative that "Redline snipers ARE NOT invincible, nor (almost) untouchable.
The tips I gave you are tried and true methods for attacking ANY enemy within the red zone, even snipers.
And if you cannot prove that redline snipers are as invincible as you say, then all you have is an opinion,
That opinion on redline snipers comes from either ignorance of the game mechanics, a lack of personal flexibility to adapt, an inability to better coordinate your redlining or counter-sniping efforts with your team mates, or all of the above. This opinion, without observable, empirical data, is NOT grounds for a systemic change to the red line.
Redline sniper kills are legit, because Redline snipers can be killed too. The chance for an equal opportunity exchange of fire exists, even with the presence of red zone. |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.26 13:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:. . .sneaking is the only way you are going to win the match, so find a way to sneak out and do something worth while.
Guess what?
This is precisely what the red line, and red line snipers enables.
Something has to kill you guys, to get you out of the f**king defending teams face first. |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.26 14:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:First: Yes, but while counter sniping, an enemy can sneak up and kill me up close, which we can't do with the redzone sniper. Still unfair. I'm not saying it's an unresolvable situation or that it ruins the game. I'm saying it makes no sense to support it through game mechanics.
This is completely and totally fair. If you want to counter-snipe, YOU must do the same thing that snipers STRUGGLE to do: Get into an inaccessible or hard to reach place.
You think it's unfair to get shot in the back while sniping? Oh Jesus, I'm dying of laughter!
WHILE sniping a team that you're red lining...? (LMFAO)
Kray Dytt wrote:Second: I don't care if they go AFK, but they shouldn't be rewarded. Or, indeed, they should be at risk while doing so. That's fine too. Friendly fire obviously opens up all kinds of abuse potential, but I'm still in favor for it, because it makes sense. Having an artificial zone where you can play without playing doesn't.
No. If someone afk's for a moment in red line, they should not be penalized for it, under any circumstances. This is a game, not a job. We don't need to "clock out", so to speak.
If I'm going to be away for 30 seconds, 2 minutes, or 5 minutes, and i'm in-game when I need to. I will either play til I die, or simply retreat to the red zone. It is by no means an abuse, because it by no means interferes with you, nor gives me an advantage. You shut up and play your game, and I will afk and handle my business, then return when I see fit. It's a random pub match. Therefore, I owe you no respect, no allegiance, and sure don't owe you any support. When I'm there, I'll back you up, and when I'm afk I'm afk. IF I'm going to be away longer, than I will simply leave battle. |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.26 14:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:It's nice that you simply assume that I dislike being killed by snipers. I don't, but I won't bother trying to convince you, I know a lost cause when I see one.
Man, such bravado... Such tenacity... He doesn't dislike getting sniped. I imagine you must leap for joy when it happens. Good for you! 
A small DUST history lesson:
Two builds ago, there was no Attacker or Defender red zone. We used to camp under enemy MCCs and Siege enemy home bases with firing squads and tanks and LAVS... We would set up nanohive fields and drop uplinks around them... (Some of us even stopped to play cards.) As people spawned they died. If someone lived long enough to call an RDV, we would kill him, and shoot down his RDV before it touched down. If a brave soul successfully killed a few of us, we would simply respawn and keep them pinned in their base.
There was no way to mount a significant counter-attack.
This led to BROKEN MATCHES. (Feel free to ask any closed beta vet how it USED to be!)
The *POINT* being made to you is that the inability to counter-attack is game-breaking.
If there was no "out-of-bounds" or red zone, one team would totally eliminate the counter-attack capability of another.
Match broken. Game broken. Don't even consider telling someone "don't give up".
The Attacker and Defender Red Zone saved ALL of us from a broken game.
Is that point clear? Does that even compute for you? |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.27 01:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:Did I say there shouldn't be a redzone?
I didn't think so.
Really now? HERE. About 16 posts down.
If you don't want to click the link, then here's what you said:
Kray Dytt wrote: My point is that it's ridiculous to have an area you can play from that is out-of-bounds to your enemy.
Kray Dytt wrote:Seriously, calm down
Good idea. I will.
I need to give you a break. It really is just a game. Folks that feel as you do about this matter, in general, haven't been around long enough to see how far we've come, and only understand the game from their limited viewpoint. So patience is necessary when explaining things.
Kray Dytt wrote:I'm making suggestions to fix something I consider an issue now, in this build. If you don't agree, fine, I really don't care. But why the need to exaggerate, dramatise, insult?
idk. You said you don't mind being sniped, and called me a "lost cause'. I was simply praising your sportsmanship, and explaining to you that what you think is a systemic problem is actually simply a problem brought on by your own gameplay style. 
You say you don't want people on the losing side, or in the redzone or MCC getting points. Well, guess what? Before we had a red zone, they DID NOT get points, because they were DEAD majority of the match. As I explained, the red zone prevents the match from breaking, and enables comebacks. This simply was impossible before.
I only draw conclusions about you, based on what you actually say. The most obvious being that you back up on a point after making it, when you realize it doesn't actually have any empirical merit to game balance.
My problems were with the *points* you were making, and the ignorance that you were making them in. Is that not obvious?
Kray Dytt wrote:You know what, I'll just assume you're an AFK'ing sniper who only ever kills from the redzone to keep his KDR up. You're just worried you won't be able to anymore. Am I right? Does it matter? Does this assuming help the discussion?
Your assumption is close enough, but I care little for kdr, and care more for my own efficiency as a sniper. When it's a pub match, I go AFK when I need to go AFK. RL > the match. Period. I have a life. Too bad for you.
I will use the red zone and ANY other position I can get to that is not readily accessible, in order to perform my sniping and recon/overwatch abilities efficiently for my team! Because that is how the role of a overwatch sniper is played.
Myself and the people I squad with, pride ourselves in our ability to communicate and coordinate. I tell them what enemies are ahead of them, I kill enemies that they can't, I watch their back while they capture objectives, I will shoot down a flanker, or a full squad of 4 enemies going to an objective if they are stupid enough to run out in the open on foot! Stand on our red line, and I will put a proto-round through your skull.
I am a sniper. That is my role.
If you think that sniper = less participation or cowardice. I can't change your narrow-minded viewpoint, but neither myself, nor any other sniper worth his own aim, will make it easier for you, just because you feel that way. qq more please about something you can't do.
You WILL need to counter-snipe me. I will simply pop up again and snipe you back. If you don't want to counter-snipe me, then you WILL need a dropship to reach me, because I am going to make sure you can't reach me with an LAV. Bring your dropship up to my perch, I will have proximity mines, AV grenades, and maybe even a tank waiting.
When you do decide to come, whether I kill you or you kill me, I will relish the thought that my sniping was so efficient that you actually bothered to go out of your way to commit resources like that to come get me, instead of continuing to secure your objectives, which my allies will then take.
QQ more. |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.27 09:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:I just think that isn't how the system was intended and therefor, it's "abuse". So fix the system.
I see your point regarding other activities in the redzone and that's a valid concern. Personally, I think if a team wants a safe area to do stuff like that, they should have to protect that area. But I do see that would change the game dynamic a bit. It's something to think about, which I will.
Impressive that Hagintora has been able to reach into your head a little.
I agreed that it isn't right for someone to afk for an entire match. You cannot punish afking nor inactivity within the redzone however, because you don't want to inadvertently effect other game modes.
Sometimes corps even set up matches *against themselves* for practice sessions or other maneuvers... That isn't the time or place to fuss someone over going afk.
I don't understand why you consider combat from the redzone, especially sniping, to be an "abuse" when I have explained to you that's exactly what it's meant for.
A safe zone with which to fight back from.
I told you it's a legitimate strategy, told you why, and gave you the brief history on why it now exists.
I ruffled your feathers a bit in the process, deliberately.
Yet you started going off on tangents.
What, I wasn't as nice as Hagintora? lol |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.27 11:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:
-Not really amazing. You might not see it, but I'm not the one being unreasonable here.
-I'm not fussing over going AFK. You're fussing over not getting credit for a couple of minutes that you haven't played.
-I've explained why I feel sniping from the redzone (and maybe I should add for absolute clarity "when the team isn't redzoned") is abuse of game mechanics. I don't understand why you keep going back to "but we need the red zone to fight back when cornered!". I've confirmed that. I agree. I've even come up with solutions for that. It is, again, not the point.
-You "told" me your opinion. Your opinion is not fact (shocker, I know). You can ruffle my feathers all you like, if that's your thing. It doesn't change a thing about me disagreeing with you. If you think I'm the one going of on tangents here, I suggest you read through the thread again.
-It's not about being nice, it's about not being an idiot. But you'd probably need to not be an idiot to understand that. I see an issue there...
-You've explained your views. I think they are flawed and explained why. Most of your arguments have been based on incorrect assumptions. Again, you have issues with how people view snipers. I don't know why, but you seem to be rather insecure about it all. If you want to believe that I've made these suggestions because I am upset about being killed by a sniper, go right ahead. I've told you it isn't true, there's not a lot more that I can do.
-Yes, you're protecting your preferred class... so, what, you can't snipe if you're not protected by a redzone? If that's true, than that's another issue that needs fixing, doesn't change my opinion regarding flaws in the redzone system.
-Politics... really? Stop taking yourself so seriously. You're whining and ranting at someone on a game forum... politics. That's quite funny actually.
lmao...
What's all this vitriolic response for?
Is there some other point you're trying (and inevitably will fail) to make?
I'm simply resisting the urge to troll you now. lol
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Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.27 11:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
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Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.27 18:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
I said before, to try other play styles, and see how they fit into the current system, before recommending a systemic change.
The red zone was meant to prevent matches from breaking, by allowing people a place to fight from if they are losing, but if a whole team can use something for safety and buffer room, then a single individual can use it for that purpose as well.
Say there is at least one assault on an enemy team, or one squad, he/they does/do absolutely nothing else but dedicate himself/themselves to finding snipers and shooting them in the back, this is a legitimate strategy of course. These people care for nothing else, but finding snipers and shooting them in the back. They will put off grabbing an objective just to take a detour and kill the sniper, first.
Sniper hunters, as inefficient as they can make themselves, can be so dedicated to their craft that playing as a sniper in a match becomes nearly impractical.
Sniper flanking is a legitimate strategy, therefore a sniper placing himself in the red zone, to counter this is a legitimate strategy. Especially, if all other obscure perches have been compromised by sniper hunters. The penalty the sniper pays for this is reduced effectiveness at longer ranges. Majority of snipers have a difficult time hitting anything from the red zone, hence why so many red line snipers actually don't help their team. The sniper hunter's job was successful, and the enemy sniper's effectiveness to the match has been reduced. If there was no red zone, a sniper's role in a match on many maps, could potentially be completely eliminated.
Before you say, "well he should pick up an AR and make himself more useful", wouldn't that be 'forcing someone into a different playstyle'? The very thing that you say you detest?
You can taunt snipers that do this all you want, but you are killing them out of their element, with your playstyle. If your playstyle, running around the map with impunity, is not kept in balance, then the sniper's playstyle could potentially become obsolete. This has little to do with player tenacity, and everything to do with game mechanics.
A sniper has limited CQC capacity, and some have fittings where they have NO CQC capacity, they can adjust for an individual like this by pulling back to the red zone if absolutely necessary, and continuing to snipe.
On some maps, this may be necessary, especially if the sniper does not see fit to raise his costs further by trying to get to more obscure positions. He is the only class that can make use of the red zone tactically at will.
If a team is losing, there is the red zone. If an individual is losing, there is the red zone.
Asking a sniper to expose himself, is the same like asking a team to kamikaze on a red line. Especially, if you are free to actively look for him. Have you not seen this on any matches you played? |
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Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.27 18:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Take out a grenade and hold the trigger... no mas problemo ya. 
Nah, I prefer to flux a sniper hunter's shields off, and see him run like a coward when he realizes I have triple his remaining health. lol  |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.28 07:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:
no this is not what red line snipers enable. when I am red lining a team and I only see snipers I cant reach the first thing I do is go look for where the other players might of gone.
This is a good thing. The defending team has snuck out the red zone to go capture an objective, and you were distracted with the red zone snipers. You realized you don't see anyone else BUT the red line snipers, and so you realized the ground guys have escaped.
Both the red zone, and the red zone snipers have successfully done their job. Enabled their team to escape and bounce back. Their is little glory in being a sniper, unless your team mates are actually in-the-know of what you do for them.
If YOU can't reach the sniper, that's your fault. As I told Kray Dytt, if you want the sniper dead THAT badly, take a dropship, fly in, kill him, then fly out before the red zone kills you.
If you don't want to take that risk, then why should he risk coming out to face you? Neither of you want to take risks, so BOTH of you would be showing cowardice, in all honesty.
fred orpaul wrote:and as far as your post about the poor sniper and how the assault AR fucks you, you can shove it, snipers are the least affected by AR Assaults, and that post is disingenuous, considering you ***** about having to go AR and then expect SMG/HMG/SG/SP/NK....... to switch to sniper to deal with, what is a broken mechanic.
Yeah, but I actually use my AR. Mainly in ambush. I said my piece to ccp about the loss of ultra long range in ambush. It's up to them to change that. I don't expect ambush to change anytime soon. If I need to adjust to short-mid range circumstances, then others, yourself included, must adjust to long-range circumstances if you find yourself in one. Facing red line snipers, is a forced long-range circumstance.
fred orpaul wrote:no the redline is meant to provide a safe place to rally and attack not hide in you should get nothing for sitting in it. I certainly would never pay for a merc squad that used that tactic as it would lily result in the loss of that territory for me.
I have seen sniping used to great effect but not from the redline.
You're correct. The red line is meant to provide a safe place to rally and *attack*.
A sniper stops hiding the moment he starts attacking.
Forcing anyone out of the redline for fear of penalty INTO the fight, isn't going to change anything. It's simply going to make the losses the other team suffers precisely as bad as the Pre-Red Zone period.
How does removal of the red zone OR a penalty for people that remain within the red zone actually help game balance? People that don't feel like participating will simply find some obscure area of the map to sit and afk anyway. These people existed even before the red zone did. They would go 0/0 for an entire match, not helping anyone.
All this considered, no matter how it's looked at. Folks that complain about the red zone and/or want a penalty for people within it, are asking for a systemic change to handle things that they find annoying, but will by no means fix. Namely, afk farmers and useless snipers.
You will still get matches where half your team are snipers not hitting anything at super long range. You will still get people that come into match, just to park themselves away from the fight and farm points.
Get it through your head, that people in a pub match do NOT owe you anything. They don't owe you teamwork, they don't owe you clones, they don't owe you fittings or anything else. They don't owe you a good fight. They will jack your tank, your dropship, your LAV. They would jack your whole fitting if they could.
Making ANY systemic change to the red zone will NOT change this.
You cannot FORCE someone to cooperate with you, or be a good sport, or help you. Since it's a *public* match, and not a privately hosted fight, nor corp contract, a voting system for boot would also have no place there.
Apparently, this issue cannot be resolved with reason. lol
It's better to get rid of the red zone. Take it away. Bring things back to how they used to be.
After ONE day, I guarantee that these forums will be filled with much grief and lamentation, with people pleading to have the red zone brought back. |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.28 08:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
The complaint is with: "bad players". Changing the red zone, will not fix anything they do.
They will afk a whole match.
They will snipe, and not hit anyone.
That exists in nearly every shooter existence.
So how is no red zone or a red zone penalty supposed to fix that.
lol these people don't care about the arbitrary sense of "honor" or "sportsmanship" that you guys think they SHOULD have. lol
Changing anything about the red zone won't fix one thing. |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.28 09:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kray Dytt wrote:If they AFK the whole match and don't get credit for it, I'm fine with that.
If they snipe and not hit anyone, I'm fine with that.
These are, again, not the problems I'm suggesting to fix.
Kray Dytt wrote:Suggestion:
Count being in MCC or Redzone as "not in game".
Reasoning:
I see many complaints on these forums about AFK farming and Redzone Snipers. I think both could be prevented by simply not counting players who are in the MCC or Redzone as participating in the match. Either get out there and fight, or don't get rewarded.
Quit retracting on the *points* you are trying to make, it doesn't reflect well you.
Kray Dytt wrote:I don't care about "honor" or "sportsmanship". . .
That much is obvious. You clearly haven't cooled down from my ruffling your feathers a bit last night.
I gave you a little . To let you know everything is cool.
Recommend you chill out before we both get banned.
My deliberately passionate debate against your points was not meant to anger.
Try to be a good sport about rubbing egos eh, OP?
I've bothered to even converse with you this long, and explain what I have, because I know anyone that bothers to post in these forums must really care about where the game is going.
I was simply communicating with theater.
Don't take yourself so seriously. You're starting to seem so concerned with trying to offend me, that you're fumbling over your own points. It's not necessary. 
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Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.28 09:50:00 -
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Kray Dytt wrote:
And I'm not proposing to punish people for being in the mcc or redzone. I'm proposing not to reward people for sitting there without reason. That has nothing to do with play style or strategy, unless you call cheating a play style and afk'ing a strategy...
The problem with this OP, is that there is no way to determine what someone's reasons are. That's why you can't do a blanket systemic fix.  |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.28 09:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Even with the timer proposal you have given. The MCC will have all NULLs firing on it, and it will take roughly that same amount of time to blow up.
You don't NEED to do ANYTHING to ANYONE in the red zone. Why are you that concerned about what they do? All you need to do is be focused on defending objectives.
People in a red zone not fighting cannot have any effect on you or your team what so forever, and as for snipers, I've already told you what you can do to deal with them, you answer me acknowledging this.
What more do you possibly want the system to do for you? |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.28 10:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
OP, only someone upset continues to aim personal attacks, at someone that has indicated to them that they meant them no personal offense.
I was dramatically attacking your points. Not you.
I've even answered your post to try and keep your thread on topic.
You really need to chill out... |
Jathniel
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:and if you stop fighting for me i stop paying you. Get out of the red line and do something useful, the likely hood of winning a match is inversely proportional to the player hours spent in the red line.
(Well, technically you can't spend hours within a red line. Matches are rarely 30 mins long.)
That concept you speak from is how you treat hired employees, not hired independent contractors.
Mercs in DUST are independent contractors, keyword: independent.
Meaning you hire them to do a job, and you back off. They organize and manage themselves (play the game) however they see fit. Even if that means a group of mercs tells one of their own to hang back in the red zone. |
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