Which is why I agree that legitimate red zone kills should count. This could (just one idea) be realised by counting kills when no objective are held.

Yes of course they are. Because they are practically invincible there... I'm fine with snipers finding a good spot and having some other players protect them. Snipers sitting in an area I can't reach at all, nope....

I understand that that is a tactic. I happen to think it's a crappy one (can't win the game... I'll just sit in a safe zone and snipe the other team to death... yay, fun). Also, if the other team aren't idiots, they'll see the clone count dropping and be careful. If not, then you could probably beat them fairly as well.

Yet I am forced into a particular playstyle by the system. I am forced to accept that someone can snipe me from a place I can't reach because of an imaginary line created by the system. I'm also forced to accept that fellow mercs who get paid as well don't risk anything (or even do anything for that matter).

You make fair points, however I think they don't really address what I'm trying to say here. I think AFK'ing shouldn't be rewarded and I think that if you're playing the game you should be reachable by other players to kill. Even if you're a sniper. I think the redzone is not intended as a special place for snipers and/or people who want SP/ISK but don't want to play. None of what you've said counters that, I think.

you have no business being in your red zone except to spawn when there is no where else to spawn. I am quite ok with you getting nothing for being in the red line/MCC, that includes no kills. You got red lined?? well back up your team or if thats not helping the other team is too powerful and sneaking is the only way you are going to win the match, so find a way to sneak out and do something worth while.

Ok, I see your point. I disagree because I do think it's abusing the mechanics. As said, I don't believe the redzone is meant to hide in. But, I haven't designed the game so I can't say for sure.

The difference between the tall building and the redzone is that both the sniper and myself would need to use a dropship to reach the building, whereas I can't go in the redzone while the sniper simply spawns there. Fair versus unfair, in my opinion.

Every activity has a risk involved. A sniper is usually less at risk even in a normal situation. Virtually eliminating that risk completely by (again, in my opinion) unintended use of a game mechanic is something completely different then choosing to risk expensive stuff with the chance of greater rewards. (current dropship risk/reward balance aside)

I don't fault anyone for doing it, because you'd be silly not to. I fault the game for supporting it. Again, the situation when redzoned is a possible issue with what I'm proposing. I've mentioned a number of solutions as well. Ultimately, I think a stationary shoot-out on an invisible line is daft, but if everyone really likes those then I'm just an exception I guess. I would prefer other viable options when redzoned. (Which usually there are, all it takes is one player circling around and hacking an objective/CRU or even dropping a mobile CRU and you can have the game going again. Might still not win, but you might have an actual enjoyable game...

[
Ok, let's not call it "fair". Let's call it "logical". I think an artificial system protecting you outside the "new eden universe logic" is weird and doesn't suit new eden. Do you?

Yes snipers only get kills. However, if they get 20/0, they get 1000 WP (which in most PUB matches is somewhere at or near the top) and spend 0 isk (or do you lose the dropsuit you spawned in even if you don't die? I've never not died, so I don't know really...) Their SP/ISK gain wil be quite alright. And, they get huge KDR's which mean a lot to some people. You're almost making me feel sorry for the poor old snipers who can't get proper rewards... oh, no, you're not actually.

What I find interesting is that everyone here seems to focus on two things: what if you're redzoned and sniping from an unreachable place is legit. Let's play the "but this is New Eden!!!1" card then:

If you're redzoned, you suck and deserve to be obliterated without rewards. If you're in the game, you should be reachable by anyone and everyone should be able to kill you. All this artificial protection of bad players and cowards has no place in New Eden.

I'm not saying they should be punished... Again, my suggestion is aimed at people sniping from the redzone or afk'ing there, while the team is not redzoned. The suggestion might need a tweak to prevent people suffering when they are redzoned (which wouldn't be too hard I think) .

But, your arguments actually prove a point: once redzoned, it's most logical to sit their and play duckhunt with the other team. I think that's a failure in game mechanics. It's just silly.

I suggest a redzoned team gets a 5 minute timer to get an objective, otherwise the match ends and the players get less rewards because the game was shorter. This decreased reward then adds on to the winning teams pool of points/isk/salvage. As you said, New Eden is a harsh mistress, right?

Getting somewhere... yay! :) Yes, if I stop paying, you stop fighting. Of course. Also, if you stop fighting, I stop paying. Which is my point.

I don't care if people are bad (not like I'm all that good myself), but they shouldn't be rewarded for not performing, right?

What I mean with the "New Eden card" is that we are now debating how to make sure the poor team that gets redlined can be protected from not getting rewards. Why? They lost... try harder next time. I

Coward refers to people who chose to play from an unreachable position. I admire a sniper who finds a good spot en keeps on his toes and helps his team. I think someone who's in a safe spot all match picking of random targets is not that.

I've added a suggestion to my original post, I wonder how you feel about that.

Sure, future changes might change things. However, why would a corp want to pay an AFK'ing corp member? I would assume that especially in corp matches and planetary conquest etc, you get paid for what you achieve, not just for showing up, right?

Admittedly I don't how all these things will work. But, that's also not really the point of this suggestion. It might even be that all this is completely irrelevant outside of pub matches. This suggestion simply aims to stop people taking up a spot on the team when they are not playing and to stop people abusing the redzone to get easy kills. That is all.

*People not playing shouldn't be rewarded. This is of course mainly focused on people purposefully being AFK for the whole game just to get isk/sp, but yes, it also means that if during a match you have to deal with RL issues and park yourself in the MCC for 5 minutes, you won't get credit for those 5 minutes. (You can cry about having a life all you want, but that doesn't change that you're not playing. Why would you want credit for something you haven't done?)

*Setting up a sniper in the redzone is, in my opinion, unintended abuse of game mechanics. It simply makes no sense to have snipers playing a whole match from (and I'm choosing my words carefully here to prevent you going on a rant again) "an artificially difficult to reach location". The redzone was, as you keep pointing out, put in game to prevent losing teams being spawn killed into oblivion. The redzone was not, however, put in game to provide better locations for snipers. This has nothing to do with whether or not I like snipers. Or if snipers are viable without abusing the redzone.

In my original post, I've suggested a way of fixing these, what I consider, issues. Nothing more, nothing less. I even point out that the original intent of the redzone needs to be taken into account. I've later added ways to do that. How, exactly, do you come to the "conclusion" that I'm QQ'ing about snipers and want the redzone removed?

I have never seen a red line game go to clones except maybe for the team that is red lining. being red line is NEVER a tactical advantage you be come fish in a barrel.

most of the time its true because people give up when red lined not because they can't win. I dont think it should be made harder for them to win, but they shoul dget nothing for staying in the red line or there should be a way for force match end by capturing all points fighting through the enemy and capturing a point behind their mcc before they capture any other points.

and if you stop fighting for me i stop paying you. Get out of the red line and do something useful, the likely hood of winning a match is inversely proportional to the player hours spent in the red line.

you sit in the red line I don't want you in my corp. simple as that.