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Wakko03
Better Hide R Die
133
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Posted - 2013.02.24 18:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
To put it simply enough, to get the forumites all riled up with a TLDR
This is not feedback, this is how the game is being played out for a large number of the players I have talked with.
1. How much longer is the double and triple stacking of damage mods not going to be subject to the stacking penalty?
--why is this #1 , well because there is nothing a player can do about it if their enemy is doing this....let alone if 3 enemy heavies are doing this to you while you are fighting a enemy tank - ie you have only AV grenades. (Yes I know IRC trolls there is talk of making the grenades like a side arm and maybe allow you to carry multiple types).... BUT do you really think that a weapon is OP or the Multiple MODS stacking it are....hrmmmm I wonder.
2. Don't think if you have frag grenades it is going to go well, thanks to the new Cooking mechanic; enemies are now able to survive because if the explosion doesn't happen clone high height or lower down to on the ground there goes the splash damage unless you are dead on balls accurate and hit them. I cooked a grenade and threw it at 4 players that mass spawned out of a CRU, cooked it to long apparently by a second or two because it exploded right above all their heads but they took no damage (the previous has happened many many times, so it was not a 1 time bad toss).
3. AV grenades vs Dropships. Someone tell me.... are they a vehicle.... how come the seek range is so much smaller vs these vehicles than the others....I have hit a dropship with my AV grenade and had it fall to the ground. The same thing with the RDV, the ship that brings in the vehicle, again why does the AV grenade when hitting this vehicle not go boom but rather it slides down the rdv to sometimes hit the vehicle being dropped off or just seemingly missing both vehicles.
4. OK CCP this one really gets me angry. Why after I have thrown 15 grenades (say it mostly happens with AV ones as I am throwing out that many grenades trying in vain to defend myself from 5 tanks at one time) in a short amount of time, say in less than a minute -DO I GET NO MORE FROM nano-hives or resupplies until I swap out my suit for the same one? Why does this one annoy me so much....because the vehicles never have to worry about not having ammo or fuel. Then to be denied any points at all for doing 90% of the damage and having someone else finish it off moments after the timer or players doing damage for it can even giving you an assist or the points associated with the assist. (IE player 1 chucks 12 AV grenades, the tank runs away, player 2 spawns near it or comes upon it and tosses a weak AV grenade and does more damage while player 3 spawns in and suprised by the tank shots it with a (any) weapon and gets the kill, player 1 gets no points....really).
5. Swarm missles..... why do they stop at the redline when fired against drop ships? Fine you want to stop redlining in skirmish, then give the home, non-mcc spawn a force field type bubble, that no shots go in or out of. Every dropship pilot I face with swarms runs toward the safety of the redline. ETA on the fix that makes them (dropships) actually explode and give out the proper points for taking one down. This also goes for anything to do with the red-line... from that tank with an elevated field on the entire battlefield. The same thing with a sniper, the only reason why you are doing so good is because I can't even suicide that deep into the redzone to get 2/3's of them, but they can kill at will.
6. Who the heck do you have designing these maps? Who takes away a ladder to the most commonly camped spot outside of the fishbowl, on the fetalis ward map near B on the way to the south and C. |
Winscar Shinobi
Better Hide R Die
43
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Posted - 2013.02.24 19:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
What's worse with 1 is that instead of a stacking penalty you actually get EXTRA damage for stacking mods. Lol. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
12
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Posted - 2013.02.24 19:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Winscar Shinobi wrote:What's worse with 1 is that instead of a stacking penalty you actually get EXTRA damage for stacking mods. Lol.
You don't get extra. Learn to multiply. This is how percentages work.
Also, they'll fix it so the diminishing returns work correctly. Personally, I think this is a very minor issue.
As for the maps, they aren't, or at least won't be designed. They'll be procedurally generated. They already are partially. As such, they won't be fair, and there won't be as many known camping spots. Players will actually have to know what makes a good spot for their build and why. There will be many thousands of unique maps. |
Bald Crusader
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2013.02.24 19:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Don't worry. All you points will be noted by a CCP representative for immediate action.
That action maybe being that all your points will be ignored and you will now be marked as a trouble maker for complaining.
It's not entirely clear. |
Winscar Shinobi
Better Hide R Die
43
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Posted - 2013.02.24 19:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Winscar Shinobi wrote:What's worse with 1 is that instead of a stacking penalty you actually get EXTRA damage for stacking mods. Lol. You don't get extra. Learn to multiply. This is how percentages work.
So your telling me that the first damage mod adds 10% damage, and the second one takes the first 10% into account and does 10% of 110% giving it an 11% value? Cause that's the only way that works, and then things like weaponry and proficiency get counted too right? |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
12
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Posted - 2013.02.24 19:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Winscar Shinobi wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Winscar Shinobi wrote:What's worse with 1 is that instead of a stacking penalty you actually get EXTRA damage for stacking mods. Lol. You don't get extra. Learn to multiply. This is how percentages work. So your telling me that the first damage mod adds 10% damage, and the second one takes the first 10% into account and does 10% of 110% giving it an 11% value? Cause that's the only way that works, and then things like weaponry and proficiency get counted too right?
Yes. That's exactly right. This is different from skills for example because the modules are two separate items, where as the skill is only applied once.
This is, I think, one of the primary reasons that the stacking penalty was added in the first place.
Just as a reference, the stacking penalty should be, if we go by Eve numbers:
1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness
2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness
3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness
4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness
5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness
6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness
So, when they are applied correctly. you're going to see some reduction, but it isn't going to be super dramatic except for those mercs currently relying on 3 mods or more. |
Winscar Shinobi
Better Hide R Die
43
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Posted - 2013.02.24 19:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah so if you go by eve numbers the stacking penalty is almost non-noticeable on a 2 mod stack. On a 3 point is when you see the problem.
Would just be as easy to put 2 10% and a 5% you lose a small percent of damage but you also free up that CPU and PG.
I was just confused because in almost all real world situations percentages wouldn't stack like that. (Like if you go to GameStop and trade a game in. You get 10% for power up rewards and 50% for their promo. They would give you 60% not 10% then 50% of the new value after the 10% was added) |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
12
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Posted - 2013.02.24 19:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Winscar Shinobi wrote:Yeah so if you go by eve numbers the stacking penalty is almost non-noticeable on a 2 mod stack. On a 3 point is when you see the problem.
Would just be as easy to put 2 10% and a 5% you lose a small percent of damage but you also free up that CPU and PG.
I was just confused because in almost all real world situations percentages wouldn't stack like that. (Like if you go to GameStop and trade a game in. You get 10% for power up rewards and 50% for their promo. They would give you 60% not 10% then 50% of the new value after the 10% was added)
Well, I see your point, but that isn't a very good real world example. Technically, they're doing you a favor when it comes to reductions. The multiplication works the same for reductions as well, but because the new "total" is less than the original, each additional reduction "should" give you less reduction. This is why you can take 10% off of something forever and never reach a zero cost.
A better real world example (lol), would be. Imagine your cat suddenly becomes 10% more active. Also, you switched to a food that is 10% less efficient, meaning your cat needs to eat 10% more of it to maintain his metabolism. In that case, after both changes you would need 21% more food, just like the modules. (Yes, I have cats BTW)
Edit: to be more clear, what I'm talking about is: 1.1x1.1=1.21. Reductions: 0.9x0.9=0.81. It works both ways.
Edit 2: more math
Assuming stacking penalties, we would have:
1.1x(1+(.1x.867))=1.196 Barely any reduction
1.1x(1+(.1x.867))x(1+(.1x.571))=1.26 Decent reduction compared to the current 1.33 |
Ignoble Son
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
36
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Posted - 2013.02.24 20:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
...try bud dry.
Many of you are probably to young for that refrence, but I couldn't resist. Don't know how someone didn't get to it before I did. *shrugs* |
Thumb Green
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2013.02.24 21:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Winscar Shinobi wrote:What's worse with 1 is that instead of a stacking penalty you actually get EXTRA damage for stacking mods. Lol. You don't get extra. Learn to multiply. This is how percentages work.
If you stack two enhanced damage mods you get a 10% damage bonus. If you stack two complex damage mods you get 21%. This is not how percentages work when stacking them are subject to diminishing returns.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
12
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Posted - 2013.02.25 18:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Winscar Shinobi wrote:What's worse with 1 is that instead of a stacking penalty you actually get EXTRA damage for stacking mods. Lol. You don't get extra. Learn to multiply. This is how percentages work. If you stack two enhanced damage mods you get a 10% damage bonus. If you stack two complex damage mods you get 21%. This is not how percentages work when stacking them are subject to diminishing returns.
Please actually read my previous post. Then learn to multiply. Percentages are multiplicative, not additive. Don't they teach math in school anymore?
As I said, it is correct that diminishing returns, aka stacking penalties, aren't in yet.
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CrotchGrab 360
Better Hide R Die
11
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Posted - 2013.02.25 19:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
**** guys,
we have a maths genius here.
everyone take notes and bow down |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
12
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Posted - 2013.02.25 20:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:**** guys,
we have a maths genius here.
everyone take notes and bow down
Ok. You're right. I apologize for behaving like an ass in my responses. I don't really have an excuse other than being a little frustrated at correcting this misconception several times (this thread and others)
So, to any who have been offended - my bad, I'm sorry.
Now, regarding the 5%modules that keep coming up:
1.05*1.05=1.1025 which,when rounded is 1.10. This is why it appears that the complex mods are working differently, but they aren't - because percentages are multiplicative. |
Dr Debo Galaxy
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
189
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Posted - 2013.02.25 20:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why as Why?
Try Bud Dry.
Didn't even read one post just wanted to do that.
TASTES GREAT
LESS FILLING |
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