DUST Search - AFK farming in squads, brainstorming

Kray Dytt wrote:

Interesting topic, which seems to come back in any online xp (sp) based game...

Here are the questions that I think are relevant to this subject:

1. Why do people AFK farm?
2. Is AFK farming actually a problem?
3. How could you prevent AFK farming?

1 is easy: because they can. Anything based on "gain" will lead people to want gain as much as they can as fast as they can. People feel they are missing out if they don't.

2 is rather difficult... you could argue that it's "not playing the game as intended", but you could also argue "in real life you can be a slacker too". My biggest issue with it is that you will have people doing it not because they think it's right, or fun, but because they feel obliged to, just to keep up. That is potentially lessening the experience for others.

3 is easy again: there are lots of ways. However which way is good/best, that's not so easy. The first thing that springs to mind would be to not count a player in the MCC or redzone as "participating", so it would only register the time spent in an area where you can be killed by enemies. Sure, you could still hide somewhere, but it would be much harder.

Other options include friendly fire (though that opens up loads of other abuse issues, even though I think it would make sense), input requirements (easily circumvented with auto fire controllers, programmable keyboards or even a rubber band), only reward actual accomplishment (which leads to certain types of player having a hard time gaining SP) and of course the good old "report, check, penalize" option (which is not full proof, is a lot of work for CCP and will be abused as well).

Conclusion: if it were up to me, I'd go with the "MCC and Redzone are not counted as participating". Would also prevent redzone snipers (I don't mind snipers at all... as long as I can find them and kill them). The only real problem I see is for a redzoned team, but the chances of that happening might be less with no AFK players :D


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trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.02.23 21:06:00 - [1] - Quote I've been doing extensive playtesting on afk farming (over half my games easily). I'm looking for ideas to get the most out of it. Variation 1(skirmish): spawn in MCC, drop uplink in far direction so all keyboard users are tempted to spawn in it, afk. Variation 2(ambush): spawn, kill reds, drop uplink in a hidden corner, hide and go afk. Variation 2 requires more work, but produces more loot based on your hiding luck. Variation 1 is pretty certain loot per game, but long duration. Tip for afkers: A squad seems like the perfect solution; as the leader can rotate and games get shorter. Afking in a squad would also bypass the war barge wait and just accommodate you to click MCC spawn if you notice. My alt "afk farming" will always accept squad requests, add if interested. Share ideas to improve the yield, please :)
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.02.23 22:43:00 - [2] - Quote A duct tape setup for getting WP is a bit on the verge of exploiting. Afk farming is the kind of entrepreneurship where you sign up for anti-piracy protection on a ship and just don't move a finger when **** hits the fan. I can see bad entrepreneurship all over new Eden, heck its even in that future vision trailer where lazy mercs get the reset button from a dread on orbit. There is no idle timer kick currently except when waiting for a spawn. When do I afk farm, one might ask. Let's put it like this: I don't play dust to afk. I afk to play dust with better guns. Just picked a fresh batch of Thales, while watching tv.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.02.24 10:20:00 - [3] - Quote zeek1227 zeek1227 wrote: Honestly what's the point? yeah u get sp big whoop I play games to have fun what's the point of unlocking gear if ur just gonna camp in the mcc some people confuse the crape out of me The point is: - I don't have time for dust - I want to play eve instead - I want to focus in chatting and arranging my contacts in dust if any of these apply, you can add in isk and loot gain (officer guns) by spawning in MCC. The point for making a fuss about it is: - I want recognition and afk contacts to improve the farming yield, by fielding a squad of afkers and speeding up games. Currently, getting afk squad is hard because of a lack in participants willing to get the most out of this. I'm not trying to stir things up, rather i want to take this activity to next level by creating a farming nexus. I have made an "AFK Farming" channel i want members in. I suggest making an alt for the purpose, so your w/l ratio is not destroyed along your reputation. We will not encourage or be associated with botting or duct tape farm mechanics. Just simple afk farming with power in numbers. If this activity gets gm/ccp hate, I'll stop it right away.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.02.24 10:35:00 - [4] - Quote BGoat wrote: This is just sad... This game has a 7 year skill tree. Are you going to AFK farm for 7 years? What's the point, if, when you do actually play, you fail because you have no idea how to navigate the battlefield? Wow, you have 30 Thales! You'll probably die 10 times without notching a single kill while wielding the fruits of your AFK labor. Only the most ethically depraved and emotionally bankrupt of players resort to this behavior. The most common justification I have heard for doing this is: "I can watch TV while earning SP at the same time!". Congratulations, you lazy SOB, you just watched the entire first season of Firefly for the 10th time while milking the system and contributing absolutely nothing to the community. Now go wipe the cheeto dust off your fingers and pick up your controller so I can relieve you of the Prototype level suits and officer weapons you so pitifully command, using all of your might as an AFK farmer. Protest my balls. I am in agreement that CCP needs to do something about AFK farming. I don't think turning on friendly-fire is the solution, as I do not think we should ever have to resort to team killing to correct the system, but I do think that AFK timeouts could be easily implemented. The situation is frustrating, but it takes a certain type of person to derive satisfaction from the rewards gained by gaming the system, whether it be in feigned protest or not, and that person deserves no recognition, credit or respect. I'm not normally one to wax philosophical on a video game forum, but I do find this quote appropriate: Quote: Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. - Abraham Lincoln Every DUST 514 player has the power to take advantage of a system that is currently broken. It is those that can deal with the adversity of this situation, while not sacrificing their character, who truly appreciate this game and are most deserving of success. Well spoken and respectable point of view. - My afk activities are not contributing, my other activities can still be. - I hate the negativity towards devs caused by this. I don't want to stir ****, I want to do the afking more efficiently. This is no Jita protest, this is just business to get me further in the game. When PVE comes, afking gains could be so low in return its meaningless, and I would stop it. Right now I get the same returns for a 70-0 pub win and an afk loss, in approximately the same time because in both scenarios the game ends quick. - There is no notion of pride involved in this.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.02.24 11:15:00 - [5] - Quote BGoat: your point is very good and from the perspective of an eve vet, one of the primary things that burns people out in that game. However, I don't set my goals to unlocking stuff at all. Gear is just a means of accomplishing what I want to be - which is still a bit blurred. Perhaps a top 10 all time sniper in the long run? Perhaps a link in the chain of a large, planet holding alliance? Gear unlocks are just an arbitrary goal towards those examples. Because of this, the only sense of gratification in getting a shiny gun is "ohh shiny, can use this in a corp match later on" instead of "ohh shiny, I really deserve this for my hard fought battle".
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.02.24 12:30:00 - [6] - Quote I think the core game is very good and dust has a bright future. I would not waste my effort afk farming if I did not :)
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 164	Posted - 2013.02.25 16:07:00 - [7] - Quote Kray Dytt wrote: Interesting topic, which seems to come back in any online xp (sp) based game... Here are the questions that I think are relevant to this subject: 1. Why do people AFK farm? 2. Is AFK farming actually a problem? 3. How could you prevent AFK farming? 1 is easy: because they can. Anything based on "gain" will lead people to want gain as much as they can as fast as they can. People feel they are missing out if they don't. 2 is rather difficult... you could argue that it's "not playing the game as intended", but you could also argue "in real life you can be a slacker too". My biggest issue with it is that you will have people doing it not because they think it's right, or fun, but because they feel obliged to, just to keep up. That is potentially lessening the experience for others. 3 is easy again: there are lots of ways. However which way is good/best, that's not so easy. The first thing that springs to mind would be to not count a player in the MCC or redzone as "participating", so it would only register the time spent in an area where you can be killed by enemies. Sure, you could still hide somewhere, but it would be much harder. Other options include friendly fire (though that opens up loads of other abuse issues, even though I think it would make sense), input requirements (easily circumvented with auto fire controllers, programmable keyboards or even a rubber band), only reward actual accomplishment (which leads to certain types of player having a hard time gaining SP) and of course the good old "report, check, penalize" option (which is not full proof, is a lot of work for CCP and will be abused as well). Conclusion: if it were up to me, I'd go with the "MCC and Redzone are not counted as participating". Would also prevent redzone snipers (I don't mind snipers at all... as long as I can find them and kill them). The only real problem I see is for a redzoned team, but the chances of that happening might be less with no AFK players :D Quoting this as it sums up my stance on all 3 points, as well as my favorite redline sniping fix. Excellent insight.