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Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
   |
Posted - 2013.02.21 20:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please read this over before commenting and feel free to offer feedback. This is an evolving idea and will need revisions. I will be linking to this regularly and updating it as people voice their feedback. Thank you.
Battle Contract Levels
Background
In EVE Online there are PVE Mission Contracts which are handed out by NPC Mission Agents. There are different levels of these Contracts ranging from simple Level 1 missions that can be accomplished with a basic frigate, up to complicated Level 5 missions that require fleets of battleships and capital ships to accomplish. The payouts also range from several thousand ISK to hundreds of millions of ISK for very high level missions. This wide range of Mission Contract types in EVE provides challenge, progression and reward as you move from lower level missions to higher ones.
Proposal
Every match (Ambush, Skirmish, etc) in DUST is a Battle Contract and should have a corresponding Contract Level similar to EVE Mission Contracts. The higher the Contract Level the higher the payout. Additionally, in EVE, the Mission Contracts often have ship restrictions on them. These restrictions limit you from bringing advanced ships (such as a Battleship) into low level missions (meant for a Frigate) to trivialize them. Since each piece of gear in DUST (Dropsuit, modules, weapons, etc) has a corresponding Meta Level based on its power these limits should be maintained in DUST Battle Contracts as loadout Meta Level (ML) restrictions.
Example: A Militia Assault Rifle has a ML of 0, an Advanced Assault Rifle has a ML of 3, a Prototype Assault Rifle has a ML of 5, and an Officer Assault Rifle has a ML of 7 GÇô 9.
Example: Below is a ML 10 Assault loadout.
Type I Assault Dropsuit (ML 1)
- Militia Shield Extender (ML 0)
- Advanced Light Damage Module (ML 3)
- GEK-38 Assault Rifle (ML 5)
- Militia SMG (ML 0)
- AV Grenades (ML 1)
- Militia Nanohive (ML 0)
- Militia Shield Regulator (ML 0)
- Militia Shield Regulator (ML 0)
Each Battle Contract has a Loadout Restriction that limit to the combined ML of gear you can have in a loadout and is based on the Battle ContractGÇÖs level. You may fit up to this limit but not exceed it.
Example:
Level 0 - ML of 0 (Militia Only)
Level 1 - ML of 1 - 10
Level 2 - ML of 11 - 25
Level 3 - ML of 26 - 45
Level 4 - ML of 46+ (No max limit)
The minimum limits mentioned above exist to ensure that a player doesnGÇÖt bring a cheap fit into a higher level mission for the purpose of leeching off his / her teammates.
Benefits of this System
- Matchmaking Balance: This system will provide better match balance by enticing players to progress into higher level contracts for better rewards. This will pit more experienced players against each other in high payout Level 4 contracts while leaving lower level contracts for progressing players.
- Weapon and Module Balance: This system will provide better gear balancing by keeping higher level gear in higher level contracts. As a player progresses to higher contracts they will encounter more Advanced and Prototype gear. Because of this Advanced and Prototype gear can be far more powerful than Militia and Standard as the higher level gear cannot be fielded in lower level contracts (without sacrificing in other areas).
- Item Pricing: This system will fix issues with item pricing by offering higher rewards for high level contracts. This will allow people to use Prototype vehicles and gear more frequently because a 200K ISK fit is affordable when the contract payout is 2 million.
- New Player Retention: This system will help retain new players by starting them out against players in equal gear. Level 0 missions are for Militia gear. This is where new players would begin to learn the mechanics with minimal to no loss while also making minimal gain (25,000 GÇô 75,000 ISK per match). They would not be facing players in much better gear as they are now. Balance at the beginning will help keep players. As they progress into higher level contracts, the balance can go away.
- Skill Points: This system will make skill points more valuable. Due to ML Restrictions skill points will become more valuable. When two people in equal ML suits are facing each other the +5% or +10% differences offered by skill points will be even more important.
(Continued in next post) |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 20:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Possible Additions
This system is a GÇ£coreGÇ¥ and can have many other systems added to it. Many are ideas taken from EVE that can be implemented in DUST to merge the games more than just OB. Below are the examples:
- PvE Drone Missions: The contract level system can be used in PvE Drone missions to divide up difficulty. Level 1 Drone mission have weak drones and a minimal ISK payout, while Level 4 Drone missions have highly advanced drones that require teamwork, high level gear, and experience to take down and provide a high ISK payout.
- Standings: Similar to EVE: you would gain standings with specific corporations / empires as you complete Battle Contracts for them. Example: You start out doing Level 1 missions for the Caldari State and as you win battles gain enough standing with them to unlock Level 2 missions. Skills can be introduced to speed up standing gains and standing gains for one entity can result in standing losses for another (Amarr wonGÇÖt like you working with the Minmatar)
- Contract Fees: Similar to EVE: different fees / taxes that can be leveraged on contracts as an ISK sink. Example: A 5% fee on contract payout to cover transport, clone, material and cleanup costs. These fees can be reduced with skills and / or standings (mentioned above).
- Contract Distance: Players can only accept Battle Contracts for the system they are in. A new skill would allow you to expand that by 5 jumps out per level until the entire region is accessible at level 5. This would require you to move around New Eden to accept contracts and not just be able to go everywhere at once.
- Collateral on Contracts: Some high level Battle Contracts require collateral to accept them. The collateral is only returned upon victory and is lost in a defeat. The higher the collateral the higher the payout to make them worth the gamble. This would entice players to fight for victory so they will get their collateral back.
- Unbalanced Contracts: There could be some contracts that are unbalanced. The players accepting the contract would be handicapped in some way. Example: more enemy players, fewer clones, less time, longer respawns, limited cover, no vehicles. These contracts would have a higher payout to make the risk worth it. Combined with collateral could make some fun / lucrative contracts.
- Cross Level Contracts: There could be contracts that fight opponents at a different level. Example: 8 players on a level 3 contract (45 max ML) fighting 16 players on a level 3 contract (25 max ML). Or 4 players on a level 4 contract (No max ML) fighting 20 players on a level 1 contract (10 max ML). Combine with some imbalances and collateral and very fun / lucrative contracts.
- Level 5 Contracts: These would be extremely difficult and require the best gear, teamwork, and high player skill to accomplish. Example: 4 vs 20 Ambush or 6 vs 18 Skirmish. Payout only on victory. Works best with PvE Drone missions rather than PvP.
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Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 20:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
(Reserved) |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rasputin La'Gar wrote:I'm generally at a meta level of 2 or 3 and even I say that, that system is nerfed to hell
I wouldn't have a problem with it if there were non restricted battles that generally had higher pay, or if there was no bottom cap. A person with meta level 0 can go in level 5 battles and get higher SP/ISK because of it
Instead of nerfing, how about we just give higher rewards to low level players I added the ML floor so that a nefarious player didn't queue for a level 4 match and use a free / cheap suit the entire time, dying constantly, then taking the 1-2 million ISK payout and doing it again. That would gimp the level 4 team.
In EVE Missions, if you take a frigate to a level 4 mission it's dead - there is no way you are going to win. And if you tag along with a group then they chose to invite you knowing that you'd bring a lowly frigate. In DUST we don't really have that luxury; if a player running Militia appears on my team I'm stuck with him and in high stakes level 4 I'm essentially down a player on my team. That's not good, and kills the system.
In the end it's about risk vs reward. If you're going to do higher level contracts you need to risk some higher level gear. Hence the mandated floor.
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Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:I like the system, but in EVE missions is against NPC's they don't need to log on
In dust if you going put everyone in Mission levels, chances are there's not enough people online to fill each tiered match.
Just wait till PVE is in and the Dust Vets have gone to their 0.0 conquests. According to http://www.dust514stats.com there are over 1,000,000 mercenaries that have been created thus far in DUST. If only 1% of those were online then that's 10,000 players. More than enough for a matchmaking system without starving it.
Also I think the proposed tiered system would increase how many people were online. I haven't played in a few days because it's gotten boring. I play the same maps, am limited to a 50K ISK fit due to small rewards, and there's no real reason to win. With the proposed I could try new expensive fits in level 4 matches, I could try to hone my gun game in full Militia in level 0, and the teammates I'd be playing with in higher level missions should be more competent as they have enough SP / experience to fit a near Proto loadout.
Also, as I mentioned, the proposal is very much a "core" system. It can have a myriad of things added onto it that would spice up gameplay, make things more uneven (in a fun way) and basically kill the monotony we are facing today. |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
i-get-pubstomped all-day wrote:What's to stop squads of corps that are already at the pinnacle of rank and SP from having militia fits and pubstomping ML0s? What's to stop them? Nothing. People who want to pubstomp will do it. Imposing a system that stops them outright will just add too many restrictions.
What the proposal will do is cause there to be no real benefit to pubstomping. Yes, players could squad up and join a level 0 match for the lulz, and they are going to decimate everyone there (In equal gear so it won't be a Proto vs Militia slaughter). But for 75,000 ISK a match, when the could be playing level 4's and making 2,000,000+ ISK a match, is it worth it? Maybe for the one off match when they want to pad their epeen. But for the most part they'll stick to higher level matches for the better rewards. |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:You got my vote.
My only concern would be wait times when forming Level 2 or Level 3 matches. There would always be enough new players to fill a Level 0 match, and as soon as someone upgrades they get into Level 1, so probably lots of them too. I am not sure how long people would stay at the Level 2, and Level 3 stages, but maybe some would stay at those stages deliberately so they donGÇÖt have to face full Proto gear.
Maybe your cross level contracts suggestion could solve wait time issues at the mid levels. One side could be at Level 2 with 12 members while the other side is at Level 0 with 16 members (or 24 vs 32). In the beginning, or during off peak hours, it may be an issue. But I still think it's better than what we have now. A clusterf**** of gear, skill levels, and player types all dumped into Manus Peak - over and over and over and over again.
If item prices are adjusted towards the higher ISK rewards, and they're laid out like EVE mission progression, then it could work well. Fielding a full Proto set should be expensive (500K per fit in my opinion) so the idea of playing a match where I need to risk 500K per death will probably keep me in lower missions until I am skilled in everything I need.
Or implement standings. That will ensure people need to stay in 2 / 3. Make it take awhile to get to 4.
Or, maybe only have 0, 1, 2 and 3 and drop 4. |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Seazzar wrote:I think the overall proposal is pretty solid. However, you would need to calculate the players effective skill points (based on their load out) into the equation. and make the tiers a bit more dynamic rather than static.
Two players with full meta 0 gear. One with 10mil total sp, and 2mil effective sp, will still stomp a new player in all meta 0 gear with 500k total sp, and 100k effective sp. (effective sp being the number of sp actually in use for the gear chosen for that match).
And as the above poster suggested, the isk reward would be a factor. Thanks for the feedback. But I disagree on the SP limits. That just gets too restrictive and too complicated.
A 500K SP player vs a 10M SP player is an unfair fight yes, but when both are in the same gear it isn't broken. The experienced player deals 35% more damage, has 25% more shields and health, and maybe a few other bonuses. But in a Militia gear that isn't much. An experienced Assault's HP goes from 300 to 375 which is 2 extra bullets from a unskilled Militia AR. The experienced player will go from 387 DPS to 523 DPS. But against an unskilled Militia Assault that kills them in 0.57 seconds rather than 0.77 seconds with all shots hitting. A 0.2 second difference.
Skills will provide an advantage, but nothing like what gear gives. |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 19:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:hmmm not a big fan of your meta level Idea, with some rework I could see it being useful but it will limit fits. Also a minimum suit requirement is stupid IMO, just have higher level contracts have significantly less to no passive gain so you have to contribute to get any returns, if you can do so in a free fit more power to you, also like you were saying higher level mission payout should be based more on victory then being in match. The Meta Level is the best way. Dividing it up by suit levels (Militia, Standard, Advanced, Proto) is to flattened. A Militia suit with Adv / Proto mods will destroy. And limiting players to only equip Militia at 0, Standard at 1, Advanced at 2 and Proto at 3 is even more restricting.
The Meta Level provides a limit, while giving players the ability to customize within that limit. So you can run a full Standard fit for a level 1, or a use all Militia mods and a Proto gun / Complex damage mod. Or any of another myriad of fitting choices. You have the option. |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 20:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:This is largely impractical.
There population doesn't appear to be big enough to even support the limited skill grouping as it is.
While it seems like there are a lot of people, think of the other thing you expect -
Instant battles that take less then 2 minutes to appear.
Your proposal would end in empty slow battle queues for everyone basically. This isn't an immediate proposal. But an idea to be implemented in the future. The more options we have besides these monotonous Instant Battles, the better.
Do you not want more challenge, ISK payout and diversity?
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Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 08:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Second just because you play the game doesn't you have the right to be good at it. Stop asking for a easy button for noobs or bad players.  You think ccp cares about bad eve pilots? There are noob systems but once you leave you better have your big girl panties on. See, here's where I get confused. How am I asking for an "easy button"..? I am asking for hard level 4 matches that pit me against players with great skill / great gear. I don't want an "easy button" I want good matches with good rewards.
As for new players; there has to be some sort of entry for them. If there isn't then they get pubstomped by Proto players and leave - making CCP zero money. And CCP not making money means we get less updates. That is why my suggestion breaks them into levels. So that new players get to use crap gear and make crap rewards (but they're separated them from good players because good players will progress to higher levels) while experienced players get to use awesome gear and make awesome rewards.
Contract levels make sense, solve the problem rather simply, and fit in with New Eden game design character. The free for all matchmaking we have now alienates new players and bores older players.
I don't know about you but I'd rather fight in full Proto gear, with a team of experienced players, against another team of experienced players for 3 million ISK than stick with the current crap matches where my teammates might as well be rocks (for all the help they are) and the 250,000 ISK reward doesn't allow me to field the full Proto loadout I am skilled to use because 1 death means I'm negative.
So if you just love the current monotonous matches then more power to you. But I want more. |
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