DUST Search - AV Nades, what are they to you?

Jason Pearson wrote:

Like I said, more opinions, tis not about me and what I think, I've already stated my unmoving opinion about AV nades.

For some of the statements I'll address them.

Some of the better shield tanks have about 6-7000hp (Around this HP you probably have a max of 15%, 30% or 0% additional resists)

Some of the better armor tanks have about 10,000hp but I rarely drive a armor tank to actually be anything other than a glass cannon.

In my shield tank with around 6500, I take about 1300 damage per standard AV grenade
In my armor tank (around 5000 armor) I will die in 3 AV nades.

So to the guy who said move off? In an armor tank thats near enough impossible, if you stop you are ******. By the time they've tossed two standard AV grenades, your Armor tank has lost about 4000 armor (don't forget that added bonus due to explosives). A shield tank will move faster but if you try to activate your actives you'll probably die in that situation.

To the guy who asked why am I so close to someone with AV nades? It's not by choice that I'm by someone with AV nades, I maintain a distance on the majority of my targets, when all of a sudden, boom. I look around as I begin to move to see someones head pop up and another AV grenade come flying to me, this is about 5 seconds. I reverse, I carry on firing. I'm dead as I try to run away because I didn't instinctively run away immediately. Other times you don't even see the AV nader.

Also, your comment about the Ammo? I use AV nades too, anyone who isn't an idiot will have a nanohive with their AV nades or atleast someone else who has a nanohive. Pop it down near the tank while its firing on your buddies and launch two grenades before it even realises? Well you've already got another 3 AV nades ready to go just incase he activates his hardeners or reps, but he's probably dead already.

A reasoning for AV nades being strong such as "BUT THE FREE LAVS ARE ABLE TO KILL ME!" is such a poor excuse for them, In another thread I discussed the removal of Free Starter Fits which included the removal of the LAV and the replies were pretty much "BUT ALL THE FREE POINTS ARE NEEDED!!!111" You cannot blame the free starter LAV when the majority of AV players that use swarms and forges actually want them around for free points.

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Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:15:00 - [1] - Quote Imho, AV nades are themost unbalanced thing in this game. The ability to afflict massive damage that homes in on the target is just ridiculous, put it with a Nanohive and hide behind something and you have the easiest weapon to kill vehicles with. It makes me ask the question, if the guys who designed the Swarm Launcher wanted maximum damage, why not just stuff it with AV grenades instead of those missiles? Honestly, when I ask AV players what they use to take out tanks, their first weapon of choice is usually AV Nades over Forge Guns and Swarms, is that right? I mean, you'd think that AV grenades would be more of a sidearm for scaring tanks away but it doesn't scare them, it destroys them with ease. But this was a question, that's my view, what about you?
Kane Brackman Anonymous Killers Mercenary Corporation 10	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:23:00 - [2] - Quote I use AV nades on nearly every fitting I have, I use them first because I hate the locus nades and want to blow up ctin foil LAVs but anyway the AV nades are balanced by the throw range I cant throw them from one side of the map to the other can I ? If u hate AV nades so much invest in shield tanks they don't suffer so badly a couple AV nades being thrown at them. Or just just drive way from dudes that are spaming them.
WR3CK HAVOC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 11	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:29:00 - [3] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Imho, AV nades are themost unbalanced thing in this game. The ability to afflict massive damage that homes in on the target is just ridiculous, put it with a Nanohive and hide behind something and you have the easiest weapon to kill vehicles with. It makes me ask the question, if the guys who designed the Swarm Launcher wanted maximum damage, why not just stuff it with AV grenades instead of those missiles? Honestly, when I ask AV players what they use to take out tanks, their first weapon of choice is usually AV Nades over Forge Guns and Swarms, is that right? I mean, you'd think that AV grenades would be more of a sidearm for scaring tanks away but it doesn't scare them, it destroys them with ease. But this was a question, that's my view, what about you? If your in a vehicle why are you next to a guy throwing AV nades standing on a nano hive? Maybe you should drive off.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 389	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:33:00 - [4] - Quote Driving off isn't an option after 4 more are in the air after the first hit. They have too wide of a homing radius and I run av/(currently) militia tank almost exclusively
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:35:00 - [5] - Quote AV grenades are the equivalent of a homing forge gun but with a 30m limit that anyone can use, and has only 3 rounds per clip and about 12 rounds total. Its really not that OP. Its the prevalance of you people using blasters on your tanks that makes you think you need to be so close to do damage, or be able to own a 200m in diameter circle on the battle field with one (or 3) guys.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:35:00 - [6] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Driving off isn't an option after 4 more are in the air after the first hit. They have too wide of a homing radius and I run av/(currently) militia tank almost exclusively Militia tanks will soon be as safe as militia LAVs.
Kane Brackman Anonymous Killers Mercenary Corporation 10	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:38:00 - [7] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Driving off isn't an option after 4 more are in the air after the first hit. They have too wide of a homing radius and I run av/(currently) militia tank almost exclusively I've highlighted the important word in the quote Keep back and when the first one hits try and retreat I have seen 2 many tanks blow them self up by driving forward in the homing range of an idle av nade that I threw at the wrong angle.
Val'herik Dorn CrimeWave Syndicate 264	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:39:00 - [8] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Driving off isn't an option after 4 more are in the air after the first hit. They have too wide of a homing radius and I run av/(currently) militia tank almost exclusively Militia tanks will soon be as safe as militia LAVs. They already are... if I sica rolls up to me and my core breach md and flux nades hes dead in three seconds...
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 389	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:43:00 - [9] - Quote Kane Brackman wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Driving off isn't an option after 4 more are in the air after the first hit. They have too wide of a homing radius and I run av/(currently) militia tank almost exclusively I've highlighted the important word in the quote Keep back and when the first one hits try and retreat I have seen 2 many tanks blow them self up by driving forward in the homing range of an idle av nade that I threw at the wrong angle. The class of vehicle has nothing to do with the av nades, they lock from the same distance on all of them
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 389	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:44:00 - [10] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Driving off isn't an option after 4 more are in the air after the first hit. They have too wide of a homing radius and I run av/(currently) militia tank almost exclusively Militia tanks will soon be as safe as militia LAVs. That's why I'm only a few dozen sp to being out of them.

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 389	Posted - 2013.02.21 20:45:00 - [11] - Quote Val'herik Dorn wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Driving off isn't an option after 4 more are in the air after the first hit. They have too wide of a homing radius and I run av/(currently) militia tank almost exclusively Militia tanks will soon be as safe as militia LAVs. They already are... if I sica rolls up to me and my core breach md and flux nades hes dead in three seconds... Good luck doing that to my soma
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.02.21 21:01:00 - [12] - Quote Best use for an AV grenade is for discouraging an opportunistic scrub driving a Militia LAV over a 200k isk Drop suit. If you think its better then conventional AV weapons your quite wrong. While i wont say that 3 people running at a tank and dropping 9-12k damage in 4.5 seconds doesn't need work. I would recommend No base or burst damage reductions, reduce that in any way and the utility of the weapon and protection it provides goes away. Perhaps some form of diminishing return might be implemented instead.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2013.02.21 21:10:00 - [13] - Quote Like I said, more opinions, tis not about me and what I think, I've already stated my unmoving opinion about AV nades. For some of the statements I'll address them. Some of the better shield tanks have about 6-7000hp (Around this HP you probably have a max of 15%, 30% or 0% additional resists) Some of the better armor tanks have about 10,000hp but I rarely drive a armor tank to actually be anything other than a glass cannon. In my shield tank with around 6500, I take about 1300 damage per standard AV grenade In my armor tank (around 5000 armor) I will die in 3 AV nades. So to the guy who said move off? In an armor tank thats near enough impossible, if you stop you are ******. By the time they've tossed two standard AV grenades, your Armor tank has lost about 4000 armor (don't forget that added bonus due to explosives). A shield tank will move faster but if you try to activate your actives you'll probably die in that situation. To the guy who asked why am I so close to someone with AV nades? It's not by choice that I'm by someone with AV nades, I maintain a distance on the majority of my targets, when all of a sudden, boom. I look around as I begin to move to see someones head pop up and another AV grenade come flying to me, this is about 5 seconds. I reverse, I carry on firing. I'm dead as I try to run away because I didn't instinctively run away immediately. Other times you don't even see the AV nader. Also, your comment about the Ammo? I use AV nades too, anyone who isn't an idiot will have a nanohive with their AV nades or atleast someone else who has a nanohive. Pop it down near the tank while its firing on your buddies and launch two grenades before it even realises? Well you've already got another 3 AV nades ready to go just incase he activates his hardeners or reps, but he's probably dead already. A reasoning for AV nades being strong such as "BUT THE FREE LAVS ARE ABLE TO KILL ME!" is such a poor excuse for them, In another thread I discussed the removal of Free Starter Fits which included the removal of the LAV and the replies were pretty much "BUT ALL THE FREE POINTS ARE NEEDED!!!111" You cannot blame the free starter LAV when the majority of AV players that use swarms and forges actually want them around for free points.
Bruce3 Wayne3 Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 10	Posted - 2013.02.21 22:48:00 - [14] - Quote the biggest problem about AV roles in general is that its all set against armour vehicle, both the Swarm and AV nades are homin, EXTREMELY powerful and are available on any suit type whereas shielded vehicles are weak to the less utilised Flux nades and Forge guns which neither hav homing capabilities therefore require more effort in utilisation. AV nades should hav reduced effectiveness vs HAV as they should b better suited as LAV defence and HAV defence should b left to Forge gun snipers and the unavailable Swarmers
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2013.02.21 23:31:00 - [15] - Quote I understand that they should have a big advantage close up to a vehicle, but homing impact grenades are too much. Coming from an LAV driver, they shouldn't be able to throw 3 in no time at all and have every single one home in and instantly deal a ton of damage.
Spec Ops Cipher UnReaL. 14	Posted - 2013.02.21 23:59:00 - [16] - Quote Alright, I skimmed through all this and saw one or two thinks that need pointed out. I only use packed AV's which do 1680 dam to armour, no more, no less, and 1170 to shields. It's a 30% difference. They don't do more to armour, they do less to shields. Keep it the right way round :P Standard av nades do nowhere near 2k dam each. Even Proto Av nades only hit at 1.8k damage. With excellent angle, you can throw a packed av nade 20m and if its in range by then, it will 'home' an additional 5m.
Rachoi HavoK Core 17	Posted - 2013.02.22 00:05:00 - [17] - Quote i hate to say.. but your idea on this is flawed. AV grenades are PURPOSE BUILT, meaning they only do one thing. remove those and you force use to rely solely on underpowered SWARM launchers, i'm sorry, that is not something i want. and as Cipher said, even the best grenades cant do enough to drop even low grade tanks in one throw. if anything, they need some more oomph, not much, just some. and for me... i rather dislike how weak the swarm launchers are against tanks, then again, those things are made to be in the thick of it [which i rarely ever see, most tanks like to hide in the back] and my AVs barely scratch them.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2013.02.22 00:43:00 - [18] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: The class of vehicle has nothing to do with the av nades, they lock from the same distance on all of them True, but all militia vehicles are made of paper. The militia Forge Gun can kill a Militia Caldari HAV with a single magazine.
WR3CK HAVOC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 11	Posted - 2013.02.22 00:47:00 - [19] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Like I said, more opinions, tis not about me and what I think, I've already stated my unmoving opinion about AV nades. For some of the statements I'll address them. Some of the better shield tanks have about 6-7000hp (Around this HP you probably have a max of 15%, 30% or 0% additional resists) Some of the better armor tanks have about 10,000hp but I rarely drive a armor tank to actually be anything other than a glass cannon. In my shield tank with around 6500, I take about 1300 damage per standard AV grenade In my armor tank (around 5000 armor) I will die in 3 AV nades. So to the guy who said move off? In an armor tank thats near enough impossible, if you stop you are ******. By the time they've tossed two standard AV grenades, your Armor tank has lost about 4000 armor (don't forget that added bonus due to explosives). A shield tank will move faster but if you try to activate your actives you'll probably die in that situation. To the guy who asked why am I so close to someone with AV nades? It's not by choice that I'm by someone with AV nades, I maintain a distance on the majority of my targets, when all of a sudden, boom. I look around as I begin to move to see someones head pop up and another AV grenade come flying to me, this is about 5 seconds. I reverse, I carry on firing. I'm dead as I try to run away because I didn't instinctively run away immediately. Other times you don't even see the AV nader. Also, your comment about the Ammo? I use AV nades too, anyone who isn't an idiot will have a nanohive with their AV nades or atleast someone else who has a nanohive. Pop it down near the tank while its firing on your buddies and launch two grenades before it even realises? Well you've already got another 3 AV nades ready to go just incase he activates his hardeners or reps, but he's probably dead already. A reasoning for AV nades being strong such as "BUT THE FREE LAVS ARE ABLE TO KILL ME!" is such a poor excuse for them, In another thread I discussed the removal of Free Starter Fits which included the removal of the LAV and the replies were pretty much "BUT ALL THE FREE POINTS ARE NEEDED!!!111" You cannot blame the free starter LAV when the majority of AV players that use swarms and forges actually want them around for free points. How do you take 1300 damage when AV nades clearly state they do 140 to 175 damage per nade in the description?
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2013.02.22 03:34:00 - [20] - Quote The description for av nad dmg is an error... Add a zero at the end and that is the dmg.

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 389	Posted - 2013.02.22 03:50:00 - [21] - Quote Jotun Hiem wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: The class of vehicle has nothing to do with the av nades, they lock from the same distance on all of them True, but all militia vehicles are made of paper. The militia Forge Gun can kill a Militia Caldari HAV with a single magazine. Not if it's standard fit
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 295	Posted - 2013.02.22 08:49:00 - [22] - Quote If we actually balanced AV Nades. People would actually have start investing in main AV weapons. How dare you make people put over 1m in AV when tankers put 4m+ into there gameplay. AV should never have to invest anymore then the 150k they need for AV nades. That would be just be wrong.
Eris Ernaga Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety 26	Posted - 2013.02.22 08:54:00 - [23] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Imho, AV nades are themost unbalanced thing in this game. The ability to afflict massive damage that homes in on the target is just ridiculous, put it with a Nanohive and hide behind something and you have the easiest weapon to kill vehicles with. It makes me ask the question, if the guys who designed the Swarm Launcher wanted maximum damage, why not just stuff it with AV grenades instead of those missiles? Honestly, when I ask AV players what they use to take out tanks, their first weapon of choice is usually AV Nades over Forge Guns and Swarms, is that right? I mean, you'd think that AV grenades would be more of a sidearm for scaring tanks away but it doesn't scare them, it destroys them with ease. But this was a question, that's my view, what about you? The problem with AV grenades is you have to get close to a tank which is never safe and always a risk but most enemys just hide behind a small rock and throw over grenades. Yes they do way to much damage less then a swarm launcher an actual primary weapon, av greandes do that of something like a forge gun plus they stick to my tank which makes them good as well.. Simple damage nerf for something that isnt a primary or secondary would be good honestly nades are suppose to be such an umiportant back up tool but u have av naders using them like there primarys. I drive tanks every day my main problem with av naders minimal, problems with swarm launchers, minimal, problem with forge gunners and f'in orbital strikes coming down on me HUGE! also flux grenades do a lot but there only for caldari tanks but they still hit way to much.
Eris Ernaga Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety 26	Posted - 2013.02.22 09:00:00 - [24] - Quote Thought I post again while I think yes AV nades damage are high they do not kill me in 3 to 4 shots I have 22 percent resist can turn on my 30 percent adaptive hardeners and my clartiey shield booster... so yes they are still to powerful but also no there not that good =3 I have about 5k hp on my caldari shields and I will loose around half from 3 grenades by time that first one is out im already gone (running) and lost around 700 - 1000 hp this isnt a problem tho because I have a rep shield hardener and im already finding a cornor. The problem is obs coming down and there super high splash killing my tank before i can run.


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