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Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax.
33
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 19:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Certainly I'm not the only one who noticed a decrease of team-play actions in recent weeks. People play in this game as if it was a single player. I'm talking here about new-ones. It's look like they care only about kills - even on skirmish map's. I see more often whole bande of players that stops in front of enemy null-cannon, they take CRU and start camping the real objective on skirmish maps - null cannons. At the end of match they of course losing, but they are happy because they camped so many kills.
That's stupid, I understand that when exodus to null sec gone come, people will care more about MCC(because it will cost), but right now skirmish looks more like extended ambush OMS. Dear CCP, fix it. I'm suggesting spliting kills made in match that your team losses from those when your team win - I'm not talking about cutting isk rewards, but this is something to consider. Why in future EVE pilots would want to pay for matches where mercenary care more about kills then actually win.
To other beta testers, if you have some idea write them here, thanks for comment ;) |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 20:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'll happily camp things but never a null cannon...
If i am going to take something first i grab the letter then any supporting structure except the cru because while it may seem a cheap thing to do.
You can win by killing all of the other teams clones as viciously as possible.
If your team is camping a null cannon they are idiots hack it make them move on. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
39
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Posted - 2013.02.21 21:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
yeah camping a null cannon is a little short-witted....... depending on the number of clones left and mcc condition of course.
if we have good mcc condition, and the enemy only has like 20 clones left, then it's a legitimate strategy to call the game.
it's simply a matter of good judgement.
now if they're doing that, but they're losing... idk what to say. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax.
33
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Posted - 2013.02.22 15:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jathniel wrote: now if they're doing that, but they're losing... idk what to say.
They are doing it because kills are more rewarding even when you team gone loss - that thing is broke, and need to be fix. |
Freyar Tarkin
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
If Planetside 2's patches have taught me anything, it's that simply changing ISK/SP rewards won't change player behavior. In the sadly hyper-competitive modern playerbase, getting less than 1:1 is paramount to failure regardless of the match outcome. |
Alderstaz
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Too many issues right now that seem to have gone unresolved for very long time. They cannot change the rules to give winning side more significance than now as I probably would stop playing if the tankers/fotm,... got everything.
Also, it seems more correct than how other games did it. Getting a lot of war points even if on losing side means you did your part. That's what they're tracking. You should get something more than "winning" gives... Maybe for Corp battles, the amount of WP your side gets can be a scenario...
How the WP are handed out needs to be tweaked... Kills in first 5 seconds of spawn should award no points?,...maybe |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's nothing new... its just taken a different form. Although now, there isn't any warning that you could be spawning into a camp. But i'm happy to see more droplinks places around the map. Mine has been getting used alot lately. sometimes I'll have to place it 3 or 4 times because it keeps on getting used up. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
970
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Freyar Tarkin wrote:If Planetside 2's patches have taught me anything, it's that simply changing ISK/SP rewards won't change player behavior. In the sadly hyper-competitive modern playerbase, getting less than 1:1 is paramount to failure regardless of the match outcome.
That's because all the leader boards measure KDR, not how effective a player you are.
What you measure is what you get.
DUST has KDR leader boards, so it enshrines the KDR above all else. Thus you can expect to see people padding it over other activities.
It's been downgraded in the match leader board which is a good direction, but it's still listed so the effect of sorting on WP is lessened to a degree. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1043
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
KDR ABOVE ALL ELSE!!!!
Sorry Regnum isn't here so thought I would say it on his behalf |
drake sadani
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.02.22 17:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
i believe this is directed at me actually . to the 3 heavies at the null cannon . i apologize i saw no other way for my squad to get close but you kept respawning on the null cannon . again . i am sorry . but it was the only option i had at the time . you refused to leave and i refused to run headlong to my certain death . .
however please know i was not kill farming . i was simply trying to free up the cannon to move on it. |
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Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1043
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 19:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
drake sadani wrote:i believe this is directed at me actually . to the 3 heavies at the null cannon . i apologize i saw no other way for my squad to get close but you kept respawning on the null cannon . again . i am sorry . but it was the only option i had at the time . you refused to leave and i refused to run headlong to my certain death . .
however please know i was not kill farming . i was simply trying to free up the cannon to move on it.
why? killing is killing who cares where/how. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Certainly I'm not the only one who noticed a decrease of team-play actions in recent weeks. People play in this game as if it was a single player. I'm talking here about new-ones. It's look like they care only about kills - even on skirmish map's. I see more often whole bande of players that stops in front of enemy null-cannon, they take CRU and start camping the real objective on skirmish maps - null cannons. At the end of match they of course losing, but they are happy because they camped so many kills.
That's stupid, I understand that when exodus to null sec gone come, people will care more about MCC(because it will cost), but right now skirmish looks more like extended ambush OMS. Dear CCP, fix it. I'm suggesting spliting kills made in match that your team losses from those when your team win - I'm not talking about cutting isk rewards, but this is something to consider. Why in future EVE pilots would want to pay for matches where mercenary care more about kills then actually win.
To other beta testers, if you have some idea write them here, thanks for comment ;)
maybe they should make the objective game fun.
because it is very boring and losing active members because of it. the only ones that find any joy in the game are the kill farmers. |
drake sadani
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:drake sadani wrote:i believe this is directed at me actually . to the 3 heavies at the null cannon . i apologize i saw no other way for my squad to get close but you kept respawning on the null cannon . again . i am sorry . but it was the only option i had at the time . you refused to leave and i refused to run headlong to my certain death . .
however please know i was not kill farming . i was simply trying to free up the cannon to move on it. why? killing is killing who cares where/how.
some people get upset over meaningless fine print or their own perception of what was happening .
i would rather everybody understand what they see from both sides . the more of that we have the more good can be done about the problem or even bring others to the realization that there is no problem in the first place
(EDIT ) i did not see the second post . maybe if we removed the clone reanimation units from the null cannons and then placed a limit on how many could spawn on the null cannon at one time (how many can spawn not how many can camp it) it would make kill farming a less viable option to win . . most of the time you have a ton of red's on the null cannons so its pretty hard to just rush and take them |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
369
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
You forgot to add that taking null cannons is one of two main objectives in Skirmish with the other being....... yes you guessed it, cloning the other team.
There are so many cases in which it's better to killfarm the other team than to actually take the null cannons. The few Skirmish matches I've played recently have all ended with one team cloning the other.
Instead of flaming the kill farmers for actually playing the game mode maybe you should request a higher clone count, or maybe even a good game mode to begin with, because to be perfectly honest, Skirmish isn't good. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax.
33
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 00:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Free Beers, In future EVE players will not pay your electricity bill in station for such heresies, learn to make a fire from Bear Grylls. drake sadani, This topic is not directed at specific person. Necrodermis, I agree that skirmish should bring more fun. Right now it's like Ambush OMS, but without dropping structures. Bendtner92, Think again about what you wrote.Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: I see more often whole bande of players that stops in front of enemy null-cannon, they take CRU and start camping the real objective on skirmish maps - null cannons. At the end of match they of course losing, but they are happy because they camped so many kills.
You just wrote that you are one of those thinking that not taking null-cannon in first place and then successfully camping enemy CRU(because red dot's now have real reason to spawn on it) is a good idea. I see that you have specific firefighting instincts.
Bendtner92 wrote:(...) maybe you should request a higher clone count, or maybe even a good game mode to begin with, because to be perfectly honest, Skirmish isn't good. I don't think that higher clone count would change anything about Kill Farmers, for sure it may extend the game time for experienced players. For those who have just started to play matches will last the same amount of time(till some MCC will blow up).
In my first post I was clearly referring to situations when kill farming can not give your team a win. It seems to me that clone count per CRU, and possibility to recharge it(on demand by squad cmdr/team cmdr on some Orbital Support basis) could change game experience on battlefield. Attacker that are coming from CRU would have in mind that clones stocks are limited. And people that defending CRU(or are camped on it) could not do it forever, till the global clone count drop to 0. As I said, when CRU run out of clones it required to be resupply for example by Bolas - it could bring CRU to vulnerable sate, and make it easy to destroy. Another idea that I have is to implement on skirmish maps a bit different indestructible-structures like null-cannons but shooting with other missiles, much smaller to random air / ground vehicle, structures. Last idea is that team that win and did not destroy enemy MCC should not get any salvage.
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Meeko Fent
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 00:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well, that Entire Fanbase of FPS's came to DUST to check it out, so anyone who's played COD realizes that Kills are the most important thing to those guys. Not winning or Losing. Thats just the Match Bonus to them. Not the, "Oh, I Lost a lot of money." reaction Most people have. Im Not saying that its the COD people thats bad, people just have to adjust from being on top of the leaderboard being important, to winning is important. |
drake sadani
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 18:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
i understand its not directed at one person. but i still feel guilty :S |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 19:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Certainly I'm not the only one who noticed a decrease of team-play actions in recent weeks. People play in this game as if it was a single player. I'm talking here about new-ones. It's look like they care only about kills - even on skirmish map's. I see more often whole bande of players that stops in front of enemy null-cannon, they take CRU and start camping the real objective on skirmish maps - null cannons. At the end of match they of course losing, but they are happy because they camped so many kills.
That's stupid, I understand that when exodus to null sec gone come, people will care more about MCC(because it will cost), but right now skirmish looks more like extended ambush OMS. Dear CCP, fix it. I'm suggesting spliting kills made in match that your team losses from those when your team win - I'm not talking about cutting isk rewards, but this is something to consider. Why in future EVE pilots would want to pay for matches where mercenary care more about kills then actually win.
To other beta testers, if you have some idea write them here, thanks for comment ;)
I see nothing wrong with having two KDR tallies one for wins and one for losses. Even if it were an added stat rather than replacing something currently in play that would provide a benefit. Another stat would be WP per death which might be better suited to post match leaderboards (not saying remove KDR completely but list WP/D after matches rather than KDR so that players are given the proper understanding of where their focus needs to be in order to maintain effective play).
I believe another aspect which could improve this situation is making Corp battles/FW more meaningful Dust side. The addition of Null will have the same type of effect as well.
At present people are too concerned with kills and KDR, in the long run this will not benefit them and will lead to frustration as players that currently believe themselves to be doing well will feel that the rug has been pulled out from under them as it becomes clear that kills and KDR are not metrics of success within Dust.
Again I wouldn't appose a stat change/addition as you suggest but to pull people out of the flawed "everything is team deathmatch" mindset will require more substantive in game implications than are currently present (Corp battles/FW are at present a mildly amusing form of corp gambling when it comes to their effects Dust side, not something which carries any real import, that needs to change).
0.02 ISK Cross |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
205
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 19:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Jathniel wrote: now if they're doing that, but they're losing... idk what to say.
They are doing it because kills are more rewarding even when you team gone loss - that thing is broke, and need to be fix.
That is a valid point. Maybe the WP (and SP and ISK) rewards for losing need to be nerfed at some point- perhaps after PVE becomes available. |
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