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redline sniper
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.21 23:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:
There's also the "fire and forget" aspect of the swarm, you can pop off a volley at a vehicle quick swap to your sidearm and kill incoming infantry and back to the swarms to continue the assault (I've done this as recently as tonight to great effect).
xd, because you can not take cover and switch to your secondary weapon right after having shot your FG, right?
This 'fire and forget' applies to every weapon, just the swarm does not get immediate response, its target is given a few seconds to dogdge it, keep shooting, repair itself of the last hit or just look for the jet trail to identify the possition of the the SL user. I think you can even shoot down the missiles. |
redline sniper
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.21 23:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Swarm Launcher MathematicsAcross the board for all Swarm Variants, the damage is 300 per missile. However, let's factor in skills and other components to meta levels of the swarm launcher. If you were to max out Weaponry and Swarm Launcher proficiency...300x1.1x1.15=379.5. So with maximum damage skills, you'll be doing 379.5 damage per missile. Missiles Per shot:
- Standard=4
- Advanced=5
- Prototype=6
So the damage per shot with just maximum skills is...Standard= 379.5 x 4 = 1518 Advanced=379.5 x 5 = 1897.5 Prototype=379.5 x 6 = 2277 Let's go further...Every swarm launcher can carry a maximum of 6 shots. So, the total damage you can do without resupplying nor damage mods is the damage per shot multiplied by 6. Standard Total Damage: 9,108 Advanced Total Damage: 11,385 Prototype Total Damage: 13,662 But what about damage Mods?For the sake of simplicity, let's just say you're running one Complex Damage Module (+10%) with your Swarm Launcher. So your damage with skills and a damage mod would be: 300x1.1x1.15x1.1=417.45 Standard Level: 417.45x4=1669.8 Advanced Level: 417.45x5=2087.25 Prototype Level: 417.45x6=2504.7 Now Let's factor in the total number of shots you can take: (6) Total Standard Damage: 1669.8x6= 10,018.8 Total Advanced Damage: 2087.25x6= 12,523.5 Total Prototype Damage: 2504.7x6= 15,028.2 There you have it, the damage levels of Swarm Launchers, skills, meta level, and a Complex Damage Module included. -Bojo's School of the Trades Post Note: Thank you Synner Zeg, I had calculated these numbers on an incorrect skill base system but was corrected and this information should now be accurate.
What's the the total damage on a HMG... 700*16=11'200, something like that?
You need to factor a few more parameters here...time, hit%. It aint that simple.
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redline sniper
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.21 23:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:redline sniper wrote:What's the the total damage on a HMG... 700*16=11'200, something like that? You need to factor a few more parameters here...time, hit%. It aint that simple. I don't see what you're getting at. You want me to factor in the chance of a hit? The Swarm Launcher does all the work for you, there's only fire interval that can be calculated and reload time, but that doesn't change the damage you've dealt. Elaborate.
no clue if 700 bullets is right, or 16 damage, but anyway.
lets say the HMG puts out 2000 bps, so i have to spend about 20 seconds in the open(plus 4 seconds for reloading behind cover), time in which my target can see me and shoot back at me, to put this total damage of 700*16 into my target, IN CASE every bullets hits, which might not be to tuff considering the size of vehicles.
A FG hits immeditaly, its full damage or non, even if just the tail of its target sticks out behind a rock. I can reload and charge behind cover aswell, but it takes siginfiantly longer, compared to HMG. But for 1 FG shot i just need to spend 1 second in the open.
The swarm, considering its reload time and lock on time(which would be the charge time of the FG), takes even more time to deal its total damage. I would say i have to spend more time in the open to lock on my target than to get of my FG shot. Its not a given to say all missiles will hit, especially when the target gets a few seconds to dodge 'em. When just its tail sticks out behind a rock i can not hit all my missiles, maybe not even a single one. The longer i need to deal my total damage, the more time my target gets to find cover, eliminate me or just repair itself.
Flux 'nades deal more than 1000 damage to the shiel, easy to hit, easy to resupply, still its not comparable to Swarms.
See now, how total damge does not tell the whole story? |
redline sniper
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.24 17:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:Why are you bringing the HMG into an AV discussion?
The HMG will only ever have 38% damage efficiency on any vehicle (possibly less for tanks and DS, I dunno), so it doesn't actually function as an AV weapon in any capacity.
It also relies on pure RoF and medium range engagements to pull off significant damage while both the FG and SL are on-hit damage weapons that, if you're good enough, really ought to be hitting every time.
I did not mention the HMG as a reliable option to take down vehilces...NO i did to illustrate how just looking a total damage does not tell the whole story.
1 hit with the HMG does less damage than 1 hit with a Swarm or FG, but unlike those weapon it can instantly hit a 2nd time, while the other two have to reload, reaim, recharge, to land their 2nd hit.
To deal X amount of damage the HMG has to spend way more time in the open, vulnerable to its target by that time, while the other two just have to hit its target once, spending maybe 1 second in the open. But to deal X+1 amount of damage it does not need to reload, it just keeps shooting.
Factoring the ammo capacity does not help much either, to illustrate this i remind you of the SMG, just because it would get 1000 extra magazines, giving it a ridiculous total damge, it does not make it a better gun , to win more gun fights.
Hit%, reload time, etc have to be factored aswell. and the swarm is not an automatic hit, unlike the FG, if used correctly, the target can still dodge the swarm attack, but not a FG. |
redline sniper
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.24 17:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:redline sniper wrote:Cross Atu wrote:
There's also the "fire and forget" aspect of the swarm, you can pop off a volley at a vehicle quick swap to your sidearm and kill incoming infantry and back to the swarms to continue the assault (I've done this as recently as tonight to great effect).
xd, because you can not take cover and switch to your secondary weapon right after having shot your FG, right? This 'fire and forget' applies to every weapon, just the swarm does not get immediate response, its target is given a few seconds to dogdge it, keep shooting, repair itself of the last hit or just look for the jet trail to identify the possition of the the SL user. I think you can even shoot down the missiles. Incorrect, all weapons do not have this effect equally. The Laser for example does not have it at all. Keeping things in the Forge vs Swarm context however, swarms track their target with no further input from the user meaning you release the trigger and are done. The lock means that you can start paying attention to lining up your shot/taking cover where as with the forge the impact of the shot is more or less instant meaning you have to keep your focus and your aim directly on the target rather than incoming infantry support. Further the light weapon slot is top of the selection wheel making it an easier/faster swap than the heavy which is directly across from the sidearm (this won't matter so much for a KBM user but for anyone else those seconds are relevant). Beyond all of that your movement speed with a charged Forge is much slower than with a swarm, making the return to cover/avoidance of incoming support fire all the more difficult. As far as the 'contrails' are concerned, fire then move (while locking on) and fire again from another position. Something that one should be doing when using swarms. forge, or sniper. The swarms however have the benifit for being able to somewhat mislead the opposition because you can be locking your second shot while on the move something that the sniper and forge cannot do with any great effect (forge in large part because you can't move at a rate notable enough to make your change in position very relevant/effective). 0.02 ISK Cross
No clue what you are talking about here, but i just tap R2 to switch to my secondary/primary.
Sure i can shoot a Swarm, under the right circumstances, for a 2nd time, before my 1 pack hits, not making my target aware of me, but i do not need to aim my FG AFTER tapping R1 either, unlike the Swarm its an instant hit. This not having to do anything after haveing launched the Swarm, but having to wait for a few seconds until my missiles hit or my target doged it, is not helpful at all.
But i guess you use a tranq dart to fight a lion aswell, instead of a deadly bullet, since the tranq dart does the job for you after your shot aswell, right? The fact that the tranq dart might need a few minutes to put the lion to sleep is not much of a problem, right? Just a cheap crutch for those that can not shoot, right?
Both weapons, allow me to switch to my seconday weapon right after getting off my shot with my SL or FG, but its just the SL that is dodgeable for my target and does not hit instantly. i can not charge the Swarm before peaking around a corner, an shoot in case of a target in front of me. i can not get off my missiles, pre lock on so to speak, right after having seen my target for first time, i have to wait a few seconds to lock on my missiles, no matter ho much i tried to anticipate the situation. |
redline sniper
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.25 21:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote: EDIT: redline sniper, until you can engage in a mature discussion of the issues rather than ignore the majority of what I've said while (inaccurately) harping, in a snide manner, on an aspect of a single point I raised I'm going to cease responding to your posts as such responses are obviously not being read and thus a waste of my time.
If you feel offended or even disabused by my post, then i'm sorry, thats not what i had in mind here.
Still i will not back off my arguments, i adressed one single aspect of your post, just quoting this, not the rest of your post. By this i pretty much agree to the rest of your post, i do not ignoring it. (-> watzlawick:you cannot not communicate).
I'm still standing to my statement, the Swarm is not a shoot and forget weapon, and a heavy suit with a FG still allows its user to switch to its secondary weapon, by tapping R2, just like any SL user and its secondary weapon.
I might not have to guide my Swarm missiles into its target AFTER having shot the SL, but this applies to the FG aswell, because its an instant hit. The time i have to spend in charging the FG, is the same time i have to spend on locking on the missiles.
But you are right, if someone does not read your posts, its pointless to keep discussing, its a waste of time. But do not cast the blame just on me, even if i seem unable to explain to you what i 'think' is a fact about the SL and FG, you obviously do not read my posts, else you would have adressed it atleast a little bit, and not just throw out a quick remark towards the laserifle, and for the rest just repeat your last post as if i had not read it already. |
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