|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
   |
Posted - 2013.02.21 03:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Free Healing wrote:Forge Guns are the clear winner in all aspects.
Keep the faith.
For once bro I have to disagree with you.
Swarms are the winner when it comes to cover.
Yes you can use a Forge from cover (and you should) but if you employ the zoom of the swarms scope you're able to lock a target with only a corner of it's hitbox showing and then "jump shot" or "over hand toss" (the first being what it sounds like, jump then shoot, the second being turning away while you have a lock to force the missile pathing to clear/go around obstructions) the swarms all the while remaining in 95-100% cover relative to your target (and being able to do so at range unlike the AV nade).
There's also the "fire and forget" aspect of the swarm, you can pop off a volley at a vehicle quick swap to your sidearm and kill incoming infantry and back to the swarms to continue the assault (I've done this as recently as tonight to great effect).
The final aspect I'd like to draw attention to is Orbital Bombardment (not to be confused with the Precision Strikes from the MCC). The EM orbital will strip the shields off of (at this point) everything within the radius of effect (which it's worth noting is larger than the standard precision strike). Send a flight of swarms (with their extra damage to armor) into the now completely shield-less targets on the board and you'll make short work of them, all the more because those flights will track allowing you to choose a new target as soon as you release a volley.
Now on average I would say that the Forge is the strongest AV weapon in the game (need for a fat suit aside), but knowing the special circumstances in which a swarm launcher can really shine is still of value.
There's also one closing element to consider, SP and ISK cost to field. The cost to field a Forge is higher in both SP and ISK.
0.02 ISK
Cross
EDIT: One other note, the swarm is a light weapon meaning that all those light weapon upgrades you've (presumably) taken to make your AR, laser, mass, et al function better will be enhancing your swarms as well (of course if you primary as heavy this applies to the forge rather than the swarm). |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 22:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
redline sniper wrote:Cross Atu wrote:
There's also the "fire and forget" aspect of the swarm, you can pop off a volley at a vehicle quick swap to your sidearm and kill incoming infantry and back to the swarms to continue the assault (I've done this as recently as tonight to great effect).
xd, because you can not take cover and switch to your secondary weapon right after having shot your FG, right? This 'fire and forget' applies to every weapon, just the swarm does not get immediate response, its target is given a few seconds to dogdge it, keep shooting, repair itself of the last hit or just look for the jet trail to identify the possition of the the SL user. I think you can even shoot down the missiles.
Incorrect, all weapons do not have this effect equally. The Laser for example does not have it at all.
Keeping things in the Forge vs Swarm context however, swarms track their target with no further input from the user meaning you release the trigger and are done. The lock means that you can start paying attention to lining up your shot/taking cover where as with the forge the impact of the shot is more or less instant meaning you have to keep your focus and your aim directly on the target rather than incoming infantry support.
Further the light weapon slot is top of the selection wheel making it an easier/faster swap than the heavy which is directly across from the sidearm (this won't matter so much for a KBM user but for anyone else those seconds are relevant).
Beyond all of that your movement speed with a charged Forge is much slower than with a swarm, making the return to cover/avoidance of incoming support fire all the more difficult.
As far as the 'contrails' are concerned, fire then move (while locking on) and fire again from another position. Something that one should be doing when using swarms. forge, or sniper. The swarms however have the benifit for being able to somewhat mislead the opposition because you can be locking your second shot while on the move something that the sniper and forge cannot do with any great effect (forge in large part because you can't move at a rate notable enough to make your change in position very relevant/effective).
0.02 ISK
Cross |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 23:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Regarding the dps discussion:
When calculating damage the type of target needs to be considered as well as weapons do differing amounts of damage based on Armor vs Shields, and for that matter based on location of the hit as well (the "head shot" bonus is not universal in that differing weapons gain different degrees of bonus for hitting in 'soft spots').
I don't have those numbers for Swarm vs Forge but they certainly do impact the actual dps output of both weapons.
Cheers,
Cross |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 01:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Regarding the dps discussion:
When calculating damage the type of target needs to be considered as well as weapons do differing amounts of damage based on Armor vs Shields, and for that matter based on location of the hit as well (the "head shot" bonus is not universal in that differing weapons gain different degrees of bonus for hitting in 'soft spots').
I don't have those numbers for Swarm vs Forge but they certainly do impact the actual dps output of both weapons.
Cheers,
Cross I would like to do so, but I'd need figures and accurate stats *looks at CCP*
I just did some testing, the efficiency rating (i.e. % damage mod) for swarms is as follows)
First number is standard hit, second number is hitting soft spot.
Swarms vs shields
70%
94%
Swarms vs armor
130%
174% (note, due to the battlefield conditions under which I was testing this I only saw for a split second and thus may have gotten wrong)
Forge vs Shields
100%
202%
Forge vs Armor
**have yet to confirm these numbers**
Cheers,
Cross
ps ~ all numbers are base numbers, meaning vs a tank without any resists fit/active. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 15:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Cross Atu wrote:
70%
94%
Swarms vs armor
130%
174% (note, due to the battlefield conditions under which I was testing this I only saw for a split second and thus may have gotten wrong)
Forge vs Shields
100%
202%
Forge vs Armor
**have yet to confirm these numbers**
Cheers,
Cross
ps ~ all numbers are base numbers, meaning vs a tank without any resists fit/active.
Can you confirm that these were in consideration of skill bonuses as well?
The efficiency numbers are (as I understand it) a final modifier, as such they remain unchanged regardless of what skill levels are in play (the skill levels effect the numeric value of the figure that efficiency modifies, not the efficiency modifier itself). Just in case these modifiers function differently than I believe however, my Weaponry was at L5 while my Prof (for both weapons) was at L0. All testing done the same night with the same skills.
Cheers,
Cross |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 16:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Cross Atu wrote:
The efficiency numbers are (as I understand it) a final modifier, as such they remain unchanged regardless of what skill levels are in play (the skill levels effect the numeric value of the figure that efficiency modifies, not the efficiency modifier itself). Just in case these modifiers function differently than I believe however, my Weaponry was at L5 while my Prof (for both weapons) was at L0. All testing done the same night with the same skills.
Cheers,
Cross
Oh Dear, sorry I had a blond moment. I don't know how, but I'm sorry I'll be updating and recalculating shortly.
No worries bro, thanks for doing the work to compile information on this 
Cheers,
Cross
EDIT: redline sniper, until you can engage in a mature discussion of the issues rather than ignore the majority of what I've said while (inaccurately) harping, in a snide manner, on an aspect of a single point I raised I'm going to cease responding to your posts as such responses are obviously not being read and thus a waste of my time. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
885
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 06:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
redline sniper wrote:
I might not have to guide my Swarm missiles into its target AFTER having shot the SL, but this applies to the FG aswell, because its an instant hit. The time i have to spend in charging the FG, is the same time i have to spend on locking on the missiles.
I've been testing this for awhile now and the Forge Gun is not a hit scan weapon. I've confirmed my findings on this with other Mercs as well. Unless CCP changes this in Uprising it's still going to require more targeting etc. as described in my prior posts. Also as a quick address to a snip outside what I've quoted, cheery picking a single point out of context in most cases doesn't accurately represent the statement being made.
Anyway the goal of this post is to reiterate that the Forge Gun is not hit scan (much as the hacked uplink is not the only one capable of team spawn) to quash continued rumors to the contrary. Dust is complex enough without new players having to sift through 'urban legends' to find actual game data. (And on that note if someone tests this same issue and CCP has changed it please post a correction here along with a date and build citation so that no one is mislead).
Cross |
|
|
| |
|