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Groza Tragediya Opus Arcana Orion Empire 72	Posted - 2013.02.20 05:39:00 - [1] - Quote Problem AV > tank. Why is there someone jumping with a swarm launcher? Why do prototype AV nades take away 6k armor with no hardener activated? Why can people with swarm launchers jog a marathon and still have room for a side arm? If tanks require teams to destroy **, why did you make AV completely solo? A scrambler pistol and submachine gun is no punishment. Any half decent player can defend themselves with those weapons. So even if someone does try to save the tank from a swarm or forge, they still have to worry about somebody possibly killing them. AV grenades and flux need serious damage reduction as well. Standard of both do too much damage. One av takes out atleast 1500 shields. Flux takes out way more. Arnt grenades supposed to be like a weapon of last resort? Or to draw or kill someone behind cover? Standard AV 1200 damage then swarm 1200 +30% to both.1560 at standard. Then add the frequency at which these attacks can come, youve got imbalance. You can launch from behind cover, where tanks cant reach. Spam both out of range of blasters. Nicely done, so i need a railgun to kill a guy on the top of a mountain but he can reach me no problem. Nice, i see what you there. How about we stop with that. Possible solution Reduce the swarm lock on range dramatically. Sitting on top of a mountain way out of range, i understand why you did it, but with the tracking on the swarms it makes it severely imbalanced. If you just reduced lock on range then the missiles can still hit dropships but not be an ***** weapon. I understand that were all tired of the letters O.P, but the balance is off. Perhaps a dumbing down of the missile? The grenades are WAY too much though they need damage reductions severely. They should be used to get that last tiny amount of damage done, not as a leading attack. 1mil sp for decent tank 200sp to destroy any tank you want. Imbalance.
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 385	Posted - 2013.02.20 05:46:00 - [2] - Quote Your tears are delicious, feed me more
calisk galern KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 9	Posted - 2013.02.20 05:48:00 - [3] - Quote i've played with tank pilots, they rarely lose their tanks, you're doing it wrong
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 642	Posted - 2013.02.20 05:49:00 - [4] - Quote No mention of Forge Gun... that's funny as I can pop tanks from a nice range...
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.20 05:52:00 - [5] - Quote ... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. . .
Bald Crusader Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2013.02.20 05:54:00 - [6] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Your tears are delicious, feed me more The pro-CCP troll. A more protected species than the panda.
Groza Tragediya Opus Arcana Orion Empire 72	Posted - 2013.02.20 05:55:00 - [7] - Quote calisk galern wrote: i've played with tank pilots, they rarely lose their tanks, you're doing it wrong Certainly wasnt one from your corp. At any rate, love the piggy backing people seem to be doing, first response to a post seems to influence how others respond. You see one troll the rest follow. Its odd, youd think in a forum of adults atleast one person would have their own brain? Guess not, lock teh thread ^.^.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 642	Posted - 2013.02.20 05:57:00 - [8] - Quote Groza Tragediya wrote: calisk galern wrote: i've played with tank pilots, they rarely lose their tanks, you're doing it wrong Certainly wasnt one from your corp. At any rate, keep up the good work. not gonna lie, this made me lol IRL
Rossiya diya Trolley Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.02.20 06:40:00 - [9] - Quote Lol O.P cries, mean while KEQ rides ****. TROLOLOL.
Val'herik Dorn CrimeWave Syndicate 264	Posted - 2013.02.20 07:05:00 - [10] - Quote Av nade flux nade damage reduction... lol nope Working as intended... except flux nades I killed a full health heavy earlier by pegging him in the nuts I was confused... Thats all that needs fixed on the flux.

LoveNewlooy WarRavens 6	Posted - 2013.02.20 07:14:00 - [11] - Quote lol quit cry about it, ur doing wrong.
Rachoi HavoK Core 17	Posted - 2013.02.20 07:29:00 - [12] - Quote 1500 against a tank? please, you had to be getting hit with multiple, most i've seen an AV grenade [something made SPESIFICALLY to tear apart any ground vehicle] is 400, as for Swarms... what the hell else are we going to use? our freaking guns? as if. we need SOMETHING to balance the playing feild here, and when using a swarm launcher, we can ONLY aim at a vehicle. are we supposed to be dead useless against other infantry? no, that is why we have the side arms i think what you got hit by was an AV mine, those do a hell of a lot, and are useful to no end against tank babies like you
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2013.02.20 07:56:00 - [13] - Quote Is there still a stacking bug for dmg mods? not sure where that 30% is coming from. The prof swarm skill only gives 15% if you dump a ton of sp into it. I guess it is possible to get 30% with a dropsuit with 3 highs and maxed prof skills. Swarms are meant to be a long range av weapon, however, what usually happens at long range is i'll just annoy the driver.
Buzzin Fr0g KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2013.02.20 10:07:00 - [14] - Quote Groza Tragediya wrote: calisk galern wrote: i've played with tank pilots, they rarely lose their tanks, you're doing it wrong Certainly wasnt one from your corp. May not have been then, but we've got guys who could destroy you in their sleep, so let's not be so dismissive.
Buzzin Fr0g KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2013.02.20 10:09:00 - [15] - Quote Rossiya diya Trolley wrote: Lol O.P cries, mean while KEQ rides ****. TROLOLOL. We wouldn't know anything about shaft jockeying. Is that your forte?
Eris Ernaga Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety 26	Posted - 2013.02.20 10:48:00 - [16] - Quote Gronzo don't worry I agree in some ways, all the troll QQ comments are just being immature and think they've seen it all over the forums so they can just deny the facts. I drive tanks a lot so I can best tell you what hurts and doesn't hurt. First of all the higher level swarm launchers hurt which I can't complain about if someone trains for a better item he should get his bang for his buck. Secondly I agree about flux grenades and and av grenades they hit a lot but this can be blocked by simply backing up. While I too think AV flux grenades should be downed slightly it also comes down to the player having a certain amount of experience if you feel these weapons are over powered then by all means post your opinion, I will be one of the members agreeing with or not agreeing with but not posting the QQ kid needs more skill comments these people are just showing how immature they are. If you would like I can post my tank guide on this thread as I said before a lot of it his knowing how to drive your tank and about the kid who said tanks barely get scraped I heavy disagree. There are tanks, anti vehicle grenades, flux grenades, instillations, orbital strikes, forge guns, and swarm launchers all homed in on tanks. The only reason a tank doesn't die is because it camps the red line like i do =).
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.02.20 10:54:00 - [17] - Quote There are many tanks around now that take at the very least 2 decent AV players to take down. If you're losing militia tanks, then that's because they're militia. If you're losing standard tanks (madrugar or gunloggi, the latter especially), you've either got it fitted really badly or you are putting yourself in really bad positions and driving poorly.
Panther Alpha Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 44	Posted - 2013.02.20 11:04:00 - [18] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: Your tears are delicious, feed me more And how this helps any one ? Funny that this type of comments, comes from the same people all the time. The full point of an open Beta is to get feedback, from a different group of people that haven't play in the closed Beta. You guys are morons, that are going to cost CCP allot of cash, is this narcissism stupidity continuous.
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.02.20 11:45:00 - [19] - Quote @Groza Tragediya QQ'd about being butt hurt in his sweet, polite and very friendly tank. The standard Swarm Launcher Fit is an assault that has both a Light Weapon and a Sidearm slot. Oddly enough, a more advanced suit can fit more Low Power Modules which would allow an increase over their 7.0mps Sprint speed and if one increase Vigor to lvl 3 one can Sprint for an amazingly long time with a single Stamina Module. So marathon Assault Suits with Swarms are as designed. Switch to a Scout Suit and with a HIV and AV grenades and you, sir, are going to hurt. Mercs forgetting that a Swarm is a Light Weapon and benefits from the Light Weapon Sharpshooter Skill for a 25% range increase amaze me, frankly. The Prof version adds 15% at lvl 5 so even your fanciful solution of range reduction can be eliminated by any Sniper specialist. All your modification will do is allow you to run from New Berries that aren't skilled that high but they rarely can be very effective anyway. A middle level skilled Merc that uses a Swarm on you will still kill your running backside. Another item that Drivers and Pilot must remember is that Swarm Launcher Skill decreases what? That's right, Lock On Time that it will decidedly add to your QQ and the loss of yet another vehicle. If the Swarm that killed you is NOT Militia then your suggested Nerfs are useless as the only way to get the good ones decreases Lock On Time. HAVs have two main weapons in the Rail Gun and the Large Blaster. They are dramatically different weapons for different purposes. Rail Guns will let you pop the guy on the mountain but the Blaster is for up close troop and infrastructure destruction. You have to make a decision as what you are going to do. Welcome to the CCP style of decision making. HAVs are the most powerful weapon in the DUST and require balanced methods for Infantry to eliminate them. Not offset them, kill them, their overly rich driver and the entire crew. If you cannot handle driving one than do something else. If you cannot handle being up close to infantry than don't get close. Use your Rail Gun and stand off. Make a decision. Your statement, "1mil sp for decent tank 200sp to destroy any tank you want. Imbalance." makes no sense. What can you get in DUST for 200 SP? The minimum for anything is 6220 SP. Make balanced statements and you might get more respect. Of course, not QQing like a wuss might do that as well. Missiles have been Nerf hammered so much that they no longer count as a weapon. Might work as a counterweight though. Yet another victim of the Wang Hammer Of Doom.
Buzzin Fr0g KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2013.02.20 11:46:00 - [20] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Vermaak Doe wrote: Your tears are delicious, feed me more And how this helps any one ? Funny that this type of comments, comes from the same people all the time. The full point of an open Beta is to get feedback, from a different group of people that haven't play in the closed Beta. You guys are morons, that are going to cost CCP allot of cash, is this narcissism stupidity continuous. This isn't directed solely at you, but a lot of new players have similar complaints and here is the rebuttal: Tanks aren't unstoppable. If you're an average player, you will probably lose your tank more often than you think you should. This is a reflection of your skill with the vehicle, not an indication of a broken mechanic. I can name many tank drivers who rarely lose tanks, and when they do it's as a result of a concerted AV effort by the opposition. A lot of tanks go whole "instant battles" without being scrapped and some drivers even manage it in corp contracts every now and again. The problem is that the major FPS franchise's have been watered down and now everyone expects to hop into a game and perform above par in any aspect. Not the case with Dust. It can be very ruthless. Just because you call in a tank doesn't mean you will be able to push ahead and mow down the enemy soldiers, while sitting safe and sound beyond the reach of their assault rifles. The mid and top tier tanks, when used properly, shrug off most AV attempts unless said attempts are organized. The OP feels tanks are underpowered. There are others that would argue the polar opposite. The important point when considering these claims is to remember the possible biases rooted in self interest.

Ty 'SweetCheeks' Borg Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 192	Posted - 2013.02.20 12:30:00 - [21] - Quote I'm not going to comment on the cries/trolls here, but I will say I think there's something needs to be done with AV in general. I'm not sure what however. Having used tanks throughout the entire closed beta and for the past 6 weeks played purely as a scout and using AV. I can safely say even the most basic AV is too powerful. I kill gunnlogi's regularly with standard AV nades and militia swarms, it's really not difficult at all if you know what your doing and the fit costs about 4k Isk and requires skilling into nothing. That's pretty imbalanced if you ask me. My main gripe is the fact that nades of all kinds can be spammed. People hated thukkers and RE's, now this has been replaced with nade spam and mass drivers. I'd like to see nades removed from the items replaced at supply depots and nano hives. On infantry maps I've held choke points on my own from a single supply depot, holding off 6 guys and that's wrong imo. When you throw this tactic at tanks you've literally got the ability to knock 6k shields down in seconds, hell 3 av nades and one volley of swarms kills most tanks in my experience. I've said this for a long time, the free AV fits should be removed. If someone has to spec into tanks, then someone should have to spec into AV. The Dire Sentinel loadout they added this build is a farce too, but forge's are in a league of their own for OP and that's a different topic entirely. I'm sure the grunts would love it if Sica's/Soma's could be spammed for free, the same applies to the flip side tbh. I've been running about in tanks again of late and it still amazes me how stupid most grunts are, but all it takes is one guy who has a brain and that tank is dead irrelevant of fit.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:26:00 - [22] - Quote Personally, I see AV as fine. Two of the three main AV weapons can't even think about harming a footsoldier, and the one that can really isn't that good at it. People against AV seem to forget that footsoldiers do this thing called EXIST, they devour AV, and that most weapons in the game do minor to downright negligible damage to vehicles of all sizes. If a footsoldier is using AV, other footsoldiers will kill him as soon as look at him. If AV can get within range of a vehicle, it is either the pilot's fault for sticking his neck out, or the team's fault for not having decent coverage around the vehicle. You are trying to balance paper to rock, and saying paper is too strong. Just remember that scissors does actually exist, and to throw it instead of good, reliable rock.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:48:00 - [23] - Quote Thranx1231 wrote: Another item that Drivers and Pilot must remember is that Swarm Launcher Skill decreases what? That's right, Lock On Time that it will decidedly add to your QQ and the loss of yet another vehicle. If the Swarm that killed you is NOT Militia then your suggested Nerfs are useless as the only way to get the good ones decreases Lock On Time. Whilst I have no real problem with most of what you say, this is incorrect. Swarm launcher skill does not decrease lock on time; it increases splash radius.


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