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Rachoi
HavoK Core
17
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Posted - 2013.02.20 03:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
heh, total agreement with the range adjustment, that is the ONLY thing the HMG needs. everything else is purpose built.
i have used those flanking tactics... a about 20 rounds to the head of a heavy will kill him with an SMG people. maybe more. as an assult i can run faster normally than a heavy can sprint so... if i'm aiming to get away, i usually do.
as for the stick and move... if you get in close enough the heavy is kinda useless with an HMG since he has to move slower to fire the damned thing. granted, still a semi suicidal tactic, but it can work if you can run on the edge of that firing cone.
Heavies are just something to find a new way to kill... i ratherl ike how a Lazer Rifle can rip into a heavy if you surprise him... hell, even if you stay infront of him you can more than often rip him down to the point HE runs away |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
288
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Posted - 2013.02.20 05:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
I used to despise heavies and really wanted to see them toned down, but I have learned a lot since then (helps to play as a heavy on an alt to really know what they have to go through).
Basically now if I come across a heavy, I do as Trinity says "You see an agent, you do what we do. Run. Run your ass off." And that is exactly what I do. I bet heavies find it comical, because every now and then I'll come busting around a corner and whoah! There's a heavy right there! And I immediately turn around and get the heck out of there as fast as humanly possible.
Key is distance and plenty of support to take out a good heavy. A well speced heavy and a pocket logi are easily equivalent to a full squad of good players, and one should not take them on as they would not single handedly take on a squad of 4 decent players.
Since I play a lot of solo, I can only really take down the so-so heavies who haven't yet speced too far up yet and are still pretty squishy. The good ones with dedicated logis are a whole other story and should be handled with extreme caution with at least 4 others. Heck these combos are deadly with just a noob repper, but immensely more deadly when the logi stacks armor and/or shields and has some decent gun game. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2013.02.20 11:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
I agree with the fact that Heavy HMG combo isnt as OP as one might think. They were right after reset when everyone was paper made. Now it's more balance.
There's only a couple thing that still bother me : The range that could be slightly reduced imo and the insta-firing of a weapon of that type. Shouldnt it need some kind of small warm-up for the barrel to start rolling and spreading bullets ?
Other than that, heavies and HMG are fine. They are supposed to be an absolute nightmare when facing them at close range. And yet they're not invincible. So the balance is overall pretty good imo.
On the other hand, i hear about people saying heavies should have more slots. And to that i say, absolutely not. The whole point of the heavy is to be super tough, super hurtfull but need some backup at some point when facing an organized group.. Giving an equipment slot or extra low slot could make them self-dependant and that would tend to make them OP.
To see more "fittingable" heavies, i'd say we should wait to see the suits that will come soon enough. Especially the ones described in "themittani.com" article from last week. (http://themittani.com/news/new-dust-514-dropsuits-may-be-horizion)
I could deal with a heavy with extra slot and life only if its movement speed is even way way way lower than the current heavy framework. And i could accept a heavy with an equipment and more mobility if its suit is way less tanked and it has no Heavy weapon slot for example.
In fact, if you read the description of those suits in the API database, you can pretty much sum it up like follows :
Uber Heavy => Titan
Heavy
Heavy-Assault => Atlas
Assault-Heavy => Shock
Assault
Assault-Scout => Spectre
Scout-Assault => Breach
Scout
Scout-Ninja => Spec Ops
Cant wait to see the balance behind all this.
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semperfi1999
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
317
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Posted - 2013.02.20 13:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
I would like to note just to consideration. 1 LAV will completely nullify the heavies movement disadvantage. Being able to instantly jump into and out of an LAV for the heavies basically makes it so that movement speed is not at issue at all for the heavies. Personally I think there should be a delay time to get into and out of a vehicle. Make it take scouts 1 second to get into and out of a vehicle, 2 seconds for assault and logis, and 3 seconds for heavies to get into and out of vehicles. (seat switching can still be instantaneous though) |
Eris Ernaga
Super Smash Bros
Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety
26
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Posted - 2013.02.20 13:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
It doesn't need nerf sniper rifles can 3 hit a heavy very damaging, shotguns can two hit a heavy doesn't need nerf, mass drivers to a hell of a lot of damage when fired acurrately but none of these weapons need nerf all the guns are fine it just amount of the skill, experience, and strategy you put into it. However out of all the guns you probably called OP on one of the correct ones. |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
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Posted - 2013.02.20 17:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ive never played heavy before but ill say this. people crying for a nerf are idiots. Heavies are supposed to own otherwise what are they there for? |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
244
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 17:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
On the other hand, i hear about people saying heavies should have more slots. And to that i say, absolutely not. The whole point of the heavy is to be super tough, super hurtfull but need some backup at some point when facing an organized group.. Giving an equipment slot or extra low slot could make them self-dependant and that would tend to make them OP.
The Proto suits are gimped, they have all that CPU and PG... and nothing to actually put it to use. 1 low slot seems fair to me. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 17:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
HMG is fine as is. Heavy himsel could use a buff here or there though... and for those idiots who think he has range on you, train Light Sharpshooter, cuz he probably trained Heavy Sharpshooter to nullify your range advantage. Still think he has too much range? Use a damned Laser. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 17:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
On the other hand, i hear about people saying heavies should have more slots. And to that i say, absolutely not. The whole point of the heavy is to be super tough, super hurtfull but need some backup at some point when facing an organized group.. Giving an equipment slot or extra low slot could make them self-dependant and that would tend to make them OP.
The Proto suits are gimped, they have all that CPU and PG... and nothing to actually put it to use. 1 low slot seems fair to me.
It's the equipment slot they need to never have. Logistics and Heavy are polar opposite roles with the only overlap being the armor skills to get Repair Tools. As for more Hi/Low-Slots and more HP, yea, he needs those. Almost all upper-tier suits are nigh useless thanks to the HP leveling. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
244
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Posted - 2013.02.20 18:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
I just realized Proto heavies have lower PG and CPU than.... every freak'n class, that includes scouts.What the hell is that about? The vk1 series even talks about having more slots... it's lying. Proto heavies suck, plain and simple. |
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.02.20 19:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
I'd be in favor of maintaining the effective range of the HMG while reducing the maximum range by some 5%. That'd sharpen its role.
HMGs work the same as shotguns. You walk around the corner, you see the hard counter for your fit, you die. The issue is just that HMGs are much more popular right now, which makes them annoying rather than overpowered. |
M3DIC 2U
RED COLONIAL MARINES
Covert Intervention
13
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Posted - 2013.02.20 20:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Doesn't need a spool up, it's an M60 type feed, linked ammo chain. The rotating barrell is to reduce heat build up and has nothing to do with firing.
Pull trigger, firing pin hits, go BOOM, repeat |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2013.02.21 01:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
+1 OP (and for those who care I say this as someone who doesn't use an HMG)
Cheers,
Cross |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
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Posted - 2013.02.21 04:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
I see all these post calling for nerfs to HMG and the general attitudes of the PRO-NERF players and I've come to a conclusion...
They all want Dust to be a Sci-Fi CoD clone where the weapon and dropsuit doesn't matter, all that matters is who gets the first good hits. This boring twitch kill mechanic, and yes I do play CoD when I get over the boredom it instills in me, is what bores me about those games.
Those that say "Oh but in RL nerf nerf nerf." Here's a hard set of facts.
1. The M134 minigun has no spool up time.
2. It fires a rate adjustable 2000 to 6000 7.62mm rounds per minute.
3. Muzzle velocity is 853 meters per second.
4. It's maximum effective range is approximately 1000 meters horizontal.
5. It's feed system is a disintegrating cartridge belt or linkless feed and, dependent on installation, 500-5000 round belt.
6. It's actually a very accurate weapon.
7. It doesn't overheat.
M134 in action.
Everything in the game is already nerfed well below reality. If CCP took it's que from RL in regards to the HMG, it would be nearly pinpoint accurate at the current in game maximum range and we wouldn't have an overheat mechanic. AS it is, it's filling it's role perfectly well. Doesn't need spool up, already spreads way beyond what it should, and if you can't outrange it with an AR, then train up Light Weapon Sharpshooter. I use an assault HMG and have 1 level in heavy weapon sharpshooter to achieve my so called long ranged attacks and I can still be outranged by ARs, LRs, MDs, and Snipers, not to mention the rocket turrets and rail turrets on vehicles and installations.
There's more I would say, but reading all these pro nerf posts and threads for things that are working well within their roles and give us rewarding intelligent play is giving me a headache.
Edit: A note to those out there that might not be able to put two and two together, the "bullet spread" you see in the video is due to vehicle movement and it's still less than what we have in game. |
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