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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2013.02.19 04:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is about the DS3 standard PS3 controller. Sensitivity still feels off. Anyone ever just get on an FPS and spin around? Usually you start out slow and accelerate to spin around faster. In Dust you pretty much spin at a constant speed. If there is acceleration, I don't notice it.
I tested spinning around while un-scoped and scoped in MAG, BF3, and KZ3. All these games had acceleration (though BF3's was pretty light). The lack of acceleration in Dust's sensitivity is why I think aiming feels jerky and not smooth: When sniping in Dust for example, its really hard to do small fine movements, but with better acceleration movement can start slow and very fine before getting fast and big.
Basically sensitivity needs acceleration. Acceleration options would be a great addition to the sensitivity options. The lack of sensitivity acceleration is why many new players don't like the controls.
Dev comment from the IRC. "[05:14:08] <[CCP]Frame> KAGEHOSHI, we have our eyes on that already, thank you [05:14:16] yay! [05:15:10] so does that mean its coming? [05:15:19] or just being talked about? [05:16:20] <[CCP]Frame> Controls are being tweaked every day :) And devs love detailed info in that thread as well, as it helps them get clearer picture."
Devs are watching, so make your voice heard on the subject. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 07:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
So someone points out a problem with the sensitivity, and you choose to blame the player instead, even suggesting spending money on upgrading one's controller when its the game's problem (never seen another shooter have this problem). Ignoring a problem is not the best way to deal with it, especially when it can potentially turn new players off the game since they're most likely used to actually decent sensitivity acceleration. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2013.02.19 09:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sete Clifton wrote:There are a lot of things about games that are similar to films and music in that they are highly subjective and based on artistic vision. This (the aiming) is not one of those things. It's not about being slower and more tactical, or faster and more twitchy. It's about controls that actually work and that you don't have to struggle with in order to make it go where you want it to. Aiming in Dust is very rough and unrefined right now, and if CCP thinks it's working as intended, then I would be seriously concerned about the future of this game.
This ^
@Shijima Kuraimaru: Saying "Dust isn't like other games" is not a valid excuse for a feature just being bad. Using that excuse to justify the bad aiming mechanics is like trying to justify broken Ambush spawning, or bad texture loading. Things like this are the reason why the feedback/requests section exists. Asking for adjustments is totally appropriate. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Sete Clifton wrote:There are a lot of things about games that are similar to films and music in that they are highly subjective and based on artistic vision. This (the aiming) is not one of those things. It's not about being slower and more tactical, or faster and more twitchy. It's about controls that actually work and that you don't have to struggle with in order to make it go where you want it to. Aiming in Dust is very rough and unrefined right now, and if CCP thinks it's working as intended, then I would be seriously concerned about the future of this game. This ^ @Shijima Kuraimaru: Saying "Dust isn't like other games" is not a valid excuse for a feature just being bad. Using that excuse to justify the bad aiming mechanics is like trying to justify broken Ambush spawning, or bad texture loading. Things like this are the reason why the feedback/requests section exists. Asking for adjustments is totally appropriate. In that case, bringing up mechanics of other games isn't a valid argument either. Seriously, I have no problem aiming in Dust. If it was so broken, then nobody would be able to do it and yet we have players, that are using the controller, that are getting huge amounts of kills and playing like pros. So then, as your point has been proven invalid by the wide success of many other players, what's your excuse?
The controls are usable, and I have grown use to them over the many months that I played Dust, but they are not ideal, and can be improved. The fact that people can use them successfully doesn't mean there is no room for improvement, and of course some people will do really well, we're all the using the same controls, so they only do well against others using those same controls. I bring up other games as examples, not arguments. Unless you suck at aiming at every other shooter because of acceleration, I really don't see why you have such a problem with this request. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 01:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
If there was just an option to adjust the acceleration, that would be perfect. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 22:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Skihids wrote:No DUST isn't other games, but that's mainly in the macro execution. The micro elements like turning and walking will be common to all games, and it is perfectly valid to bring up other games for comparison purposes.
DUST's movement mechanics needs something to smooth it out, either acceleration or user adjustable sensitivity curves. The game should be challenging because of the macro elements, not the micro.
If you wanted to make bowling more challenging you might lengthen the lane, requiring more accuracy. You wouldn't force bowlers to wear mittens. Why? Because that's decreasing the person's ability to apply the skill they have rather than increasing the skill requirement. That makes everybody worse and increases frustration. Sure some folks can overcome the mittens better than others, but it doesn't make the game any more enjoyable.
We want to fight the the enemy, not our controls. Don't mistake the handicap of poor controls for a challenging game. Look in options. there is a sensitivity adjustment. If that's all you were looking for, it's already there and this diatribe was pointless.
He should have been more specific as to what he means by sensitivity "curve", but its obvious he isn't talking about the sensitivity options we have now. Anyone who isn't a newb already knows about the current options. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 05:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Still needed. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 21:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
CLOSEDBETA TSTR-est E3 wrote: God every time I read one of horned wolfs post it just sounds like long winded half speculation fps genre authority dribble... I have yet to see this individual in any match mind you and hardly ever on the leaderboards.I have seen him more in IRC and on the forums than in game.He still feels like he is an authority on subjects such as these but I wonder if his opinion on the subject matters because where are the hours of testing.One would assume that such an individual would be highly visible.That being said.
I must say, I do love this post. It tickles me. Since you're so interested, I stopped playing with this character because I didn't like the Minmatar merc quarters. I just play with the character just called KAGEHOSHI (Gallente MQ is pretty ). I have yet to specialize in any weapon or suit, I just spend my skills on core generally useful skills like weaponry and shield control, and I'm just running around in militia crap as a result. I'm not specializing yet because I'm waiting for new content first before making an informed decision with my skill points. My KDR with my playing character is like 1.23 with my playing character. I'm not some legendary FPS player, nor do I claim to be, but I do play a lot of FPS, and I know what is expected from a shooter. Believe it or not, your position on a leaderboard isn't the basis for the worth of your opinion. I have less than 1000 kills since the wipe from migration, and I stopped playing Dust like 2 weeks ago because I'm ******* bored; there hasn't been new content for months, there is only 2 real game modes. Despite my momentary boredom, I believe in what Dust is trying to do, and I want to help make it the best game that it can be. I also find it entertaining how you missed the point of the thread without having to be explained to you again.
CLOSEDBETA TSTR-est E3 wrote: There are a hundred other threads that have gone over sensitivity,acceleration and the DS3.Yes I will concede that other games do acceleration better than CCP.You also have to take into consideration that CCP is a PC software company and there users are KBM.CCP has done a good job of giving us arc movements instead of angular arrow key movements.You also have to understand that this is the UNREAL ENGINE and if you ever played that game you know that character movements in that game are like the light bikes off the first TRON movie.There in 90's and straight 45 degrees.We already know why CCP chose unreal because they were able to acquire the right to use it and its portability with the PS4 coming out.We wont be going backwards this is the engine they chose.
Btw I dont know how many times Ive fooled with the sensitivity because I adjusted it for sniping then back to assault it had to be readjusted.........first thing I did on this game the very first spawn was jump off a rock and spin and yes I saw it then.Has it stopped me from carrying a 4.2 and over 9k in kills?No I adapted.Most truly good FPS players will.All this would do at this point is change the muscle memory for peoples articulation during which there KDRS will suffer as they readjust and then after a short time theyll just go back to killing people just as well as before if not better.
Im not diametrically opposed to this thread Im just saying its been done before. ALOT, and CCP didnt do anything about it then so why would they now.....They (CCP) wonder why they get reviews like "the controls feel clunky".Like I said I dont think Unreal was made with analog joysticks in mind.This isnt a failing on CCP's part just an over site.I chock this one upto when the PS4 comes out maybe something can be done about this.Until then I just keep playing.
I dont think acceleration should be a adjustable thing,but it is a good thing and I thought a norm in current games now but apparently I was wrong.It is rather simple though.One speed for 90 to 67.5 degrees.67.5 to 22.5 faster.22.5 to 0 full turn speed.Now I know the analog stick doesnt go from 90 to 0 degrees but I think you get my meaning.
The full turn speed would be the classes current turn speed ...problem solved.Now will they do that?I doubt it.
Most of those hundreds of threads were not about acceleration Making excuses for CCP isn't going to help them. They're trying to reach out with the console audience, so they are no longer just PC/KBM developers. They need to make controls feel good for the console gamers. The fact that you can do well against other players doesn't mean the controls are where they need to be, especially since those other players you're beating are most likely using the same flawed controls. "All this would do at this point is change the muscle memory for peoples articulation during which there KDRS will suffer as they readjust and then after a short time theyll just go back to killing people just as well as before if not better." I think you're missing the point of why this is needed. Its not some attempt to stop people from getting great KDRs. Acceleration would make controls more intuitive, for console gamers (the target audience). There are many games with Unreal Engine 3 that has no issues with sensitivity acceleration. That excuse doesn't fly. Your defeatist attitude about them never going to do anything about it doesn't help either. They said they are watching. I strongly recommend spell check, and proofreading. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 09:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:I get what the OP is asking for. My new controller gives me the issues that the OP is complaining about but my old controller gives me the ease of precision, the smoothness, the OP is asking for. It's the one reason I say learn the controller. I am comfortable with a static gradient where the low to high arcs throw me off and I either under track or over track. My old controller has softer springs and a larger stick deflection arc that enables me to make smaller adjustments in my character motion without having to rely on nearly microscopic finger movements.
What it comes down to is personal preference. You want acceleration arcs because those work better for you and I like the static gradient acceleration because it works better for me.
Where the OP steps over the line of reason, and I've seen it on my threads by many other doom sayers, is that he appears to assume himself an authority on all things gaming and in a position to tell people what they should and shouldn't like. He also seems to assume to know what will keep most, if not all, gamers and what will drive them away. The only gamer the OP, and many like him, can speak with any authority about are themselves.
The vast majority of console shooters have the acceleration, Dust is being targeted at console shooter fans who are used to that acceleration, and it feels off to them without it. Its not about assumption of authority, its common sense. I'm sure it won't prevent those who otherwise like the game from playing it, but it certainly isn't a strong point for those coming from other console shooters. Its not just me, I have seen many people complain about the controls being clunky, or having some mysterious thing about it that they don't like. The reason I asked for acceleration options in the OP instead of just adding the acceleration is for people like you to be able to disable it completely. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 00:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Important thing is important |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3560
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Posted - 2013.04.27 21:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arise chicken! |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3573
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Posted - 2013.04.29 02:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Post 45 is very irrelevant. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3574
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 04:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
0 Try Harder wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Post 45 is very irrelevant. Watch the video from post 44. It's a rather long winded comment on this, and a few other things. Also, read post 44. You'll notice that I talk more about controls and aiming, and go slightly beyond "acceleration" on the controls. Don't tell me that you think post #45 is irrelevant just because you do not like the last sentence. Already read it, the video and post 45 is still irrelevant since it has nothing to do with the topic. The video is a satirical critique of games being dumbed down, while no one is asking for dumbing down and simplifying the game, so yeah, irrelevant.
Just because something isn't bad enough to make someone rage quit, doesn't mean its good, or should not be improved. Most players don't even know the concept of controller acceleration, so of course none of them will say they quit specifically because of it, but I have seen many players (some who share their negative opinions on Dust on youtube) say the controls felt "bad", "clunky", or some other vague words to allude to a problem they didn't know how to quite explain, but specifically about controls (not hit detection, strafe, etc). They can fix the acceleration for M/KB as well if they need to if doing so for controllers only would be a balance issue.
I know aiming effectively is possible in Dust, and its not even an issue for me since I have been playing Dust for almost a year, but it is a noticeable problem when you stop playing Dust for a while a play different shooters on console, and come back to Dust and realize something feels inferior. Most players will come from other console shooters, and many will be turned off by how the controls feel, and they are the target audience.
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