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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
248
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Posted - 2013.02.18 22:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been reading QQ threads about swarms for MONTHS. Apparently some people are so completely convinced that these are broken that they just WILL NOT let it go. I don't agree in the slightest, but ok. I get it. If you refuse to let it go, we need a middle grounds where we can compromise. Your biggest issues seems to be that it requires no skill and it can sometimes make crazy turns. Let's try to resolve that first one since it seems to be the easiest one to fix without starting a lot of arguments.
Why don't we just make swarms go wherever the reticle is pointed.
That way they aren't fire-and-forget weapons, you actually have to guide them to the target. Make the ADS for them lock in when entered and remain locked in until you hit the weapon wheel button, this will free up the L1 button for controlling the flight of the swarms. Of course, leaving ADS would end your control of the swarms as well. The fire button can make them go forward, the aim button can make them come back towards you, holding neither will let you turn and move them side to side, and they have a slightly lengthened flight time to compensate for human error.
For this, they will need a somewhat tighter flight pattern, otherwise they will easily miss their smaller targets. They will also need more carry capacity, perhaps 4 more total capacity since they will miss quite a bit unless the operator is quite skilled.
This will make the swarms a skill weapon that you can't just fire and go do something else while waiting for your LAV destruction points, you actually have to guide them to the target yourself. If the swarms leave your line-of-sight for, let's say, 4 seconds, your ability to control them goes away and they spiral away in whatever direction they were heading last.
Leave the Assault Swarm Launcher as auto lock-on, but make the swarms for it only fire 3 missiles for the basic, 4 for the advanced, and 5 for the proto. This will give people the option to use the auto-locking swarms, but at the price of reduced damage potential.
Lastly, since the swarm is now a skill weapon, we should buff the damage of each missile by around 5~10% on the guided swarms. This will add additional incentive for people to use the skill based swarms instead of the assault one, since the overall damage of these variants would be that much higher.
So, to recap:
Swarms will require skill by being player-guided
Swarms will have a higher capacity and flight time to compensate for human error
Swarm ADS will be locked-in once entered until weapon is changed
Swarms out of your LoS for too long will leave your control and continue upon last trajectory.
Assault Swarms stay lock-on, but have reduced missiles per swarm
Guided Swarms get a 5~10% damage boost
Swarms are no longer fire-and-forget (except for the assault variant)
This would pretty much solve the beef people have with this not requiring any skill. So, any thoughts? |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 04:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
As I stated, and as some of you acknowledged, I do not personally have any issue with how swarms function right now.
However, with all of the complaints involved with swarms, this would be a decent middle ground for both sides. It would also make using a swarm launcher more engaging as well as make them potentially useful as an anti infantry weapon. They have a very small splash radius, but a direct hit on infantry would require a very skilled shot and make them more useful than they are currently.
Fire off a volley, direct them wherever you wish. This makes the swarms a skill weapon and increases their viability as a weapon on the battlefield. Swarm users get a chance for their weapon to be more versatile, and vehicle drivers get out of auto-tracking swarms that occasionally perform weird acrobatics to hit their vehicles. The users can make them do these acrobatics of course, but it won't be automatic, it will require a skilled user. Even more skilled if they can actually hit infantry. The swarm user will have to judge distance and speed in order to use them properly, making them a deadly but very tricky to use skill weapon.
It works well for all parties involved. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 07:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:I like the scoped control idea but I don't think the whole move forward, move backward thing isn't viable.
Just make the SWARMS track to where ever the center of the scope is pointing. If the swarms leave sight of the scope or the ADS view is released, then the swarms go uncontrolled and continue in a straight line until range limit or impact with something else.
Make those changes and we can sit back and watch the QQ threads develop as SWARM users begin complaining about being killed much more frequently as they're buried in their scopes like snipers and can't see an enemy coming, or are immobilized for the duration of their attack making them easy targets for snipers.
The ADS controls could be mapped to other buttons, I merely suggested a locked ADS because changing forward and backwards motion would be more complicated while having to hold the ADS view up. I still think controlling the movement of the swarms should be controlled for a few seconds after swarms leave view because it would be too easy to loose control of your swarms by them flying behind a rock spire or such for a moment. And if your crosshair's placement is where the swarms tracked to, your swarms would fly into said rocks if you passed the crosshair over them while following a vehicle. So you would need to control the distance from yourself that the swarms could travel, otherwise the swarms would become useless quickly due to terrain setups. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
376
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Posted - 2013.03.27 11:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have added an alternative method of adjusting swarms to the bottom of the OP. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
376
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 12:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:This makes long range Av quite a bit less viable when the problem is just with 2 of the 3 current vehicles but besides the free lavs, Havs make up the majority of all deployed vehicles. What I've been thinking is have locking onto an lav only launch a reduced amount of missiles per lock (only two missiles are launched from the standard launcher to lavs, 3 for advanced, and 4 for proto, while the dropship takes one more per lock across the board)
Could you please explain this in greater detail? I'm not certain I gathered the reason for needing different numbers of missiles fired at different types of vehicles. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
381
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 13:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Standard swarm launcher(4 per mag/launch) vs light chassis = 2 swarms launched per lock on
Advanced swarm (5 per mag/launch) vs light chassis = 3 launched per lock on
Prototype swarm (6 per mag/launch) vs light chassis = 4 launched per lock on
Add one across the board against medium vehicles which would be dropships.
Ok, and how would this affect your ammo? Do your unused missiles in each clip carry over to the next clip? |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
390
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 15:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
slypie11 wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Alex Bradshaw wrote:I say leave swarms as they are. I engaged a tank and a LAV this evening with a swarm. Took me 4 hits to take down the tank, and 1 for the LAV. I then had to go and re-arm. I found it challenging to avoid being shot by infantry and vehicles while doing all this. Weakening swarms would make vehicles over powered.
If you are in a vehicle and swarms are an issue, you need to look at
-infantry support
-situational awareness
-vehicle configuration
-spend more money
-consider retreating Darn tootin'! Swarms are fine. They are supposed to make vehicles go boom. Furthermore, unlike Forge Guns, you cannot shoot infantry with them at all, no matter how good you are. Running about in a Swarm fit is asking for trouble. Then again, running about in a tank is asking me to kill it. Damn straight
Just so that we're 100% clear here, in the first few lines of the OP I said this:
Baal Omniscient wrote:Apparently some people are so completely convinced that these are broken that they just WILL NOT let it go. I don't agree in the slightest, but ok. I get it. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
426
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 17:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Also, each swarm charge would now show a sub category of how many missiles are left in a single round
That would be interesting, but would have to be built from scratch expressly for this single weapon since all weapons function on generally the same HUD display setup and function based on the same general ammo use/reload mechanics. |
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