DUST Search - mass drivers

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use something yourself before accusing it of being OP. You need to not only see its strengths, but experience its weaknesses. Compare your success witth the MD with results from other light weapons (AR, shotgun, laser, sniper). Your unfounded misinformed opinions could lead to nerfs that ruin legitimate balanced weapons/playstyles, and make them not worth using anymore (and a waste to develop and add to the game to begin with).

A standard basic variant assault rifle contains more damage per magazine than a mass driver, and is way easier to use since it just shoots exactly where you point without having to predict paths. The standard basic variant assault rifle (which does 31 damage per shot) for example has 387.5 damage PER SECOND, which means in 2 SECONDS, it does 775 damage, enough to kill basically anyone but a well built heavy (which would just a second more second). The assault rifle can be used effectively at a greater ranges, and has no risk of damaging the user at close range unlike the mass driver.

Compare this to a basic variant standard mass diver. An MD fires 60 rounds per minute, which is 1 round per second. It does 225 shots per second if its a direct hit; did you read that? only 225 per second, and that is ONLY if you get a direct hit (rare). The basic variant standard AR does 387.5. Landing a direct hit with a mass driver not only takes more skill to do then getting direct hits with the AR (since you have to predict trajectory), but also does LESS damage per second. Now to the splash damage, the splash damage is 115 per shot (and per second since 1 shot per second), and that is usually all you will get since direct hits are rare.
387.5 > 225
387.5 > 115

In exchange for the higher difficulty to use, less damage per magazine (1350 for MD < for 1860 AR) , less effective range, risk of self-harm, and the crappy DPS compared to the AR, the mass driver gets to bypass cover, and damage multiple enemies with splash damage, and the blast effect. Its a fair trade-off.


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Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.02.17 07:36:00 - [1] - Quote That cloud works 2 ways They're splash damage works 2 ways The weapons sucks at range on level ground or uphill, or if 2 players on opposite sides of a hill or anything that blocks direct los. It only has 6 rounds clip. They have travel time. They only have 18 total. Oh yea even though it works well in every range their is a superior weapon at each of those ranges.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.02.17 08:26:00 - [2] - Quote Syther Shadows wrote: zeek1227 zeek1227 wrote: Ok I have been Provence wrong... I was using in cqc so my judgement was based on that u guys have valid points ty for your time dw about them there just trying to keep the fact the mass driver is a good weapon a secret these are the same people that where behind the lasers are not op threat ! HMG's are easy to counter (they can be but in some situations x-x) 8000 hp MILITIA tank with 2 reps is not op (there reasoning higher tier tanks are better) if you think something is op people who use it will pop up saying its not and for good reason Who want's to be told there killing spree was not fair on there behalf ? and the stuff they mention is easy to negate like ... REALLY easy So go ahead and negate it, we'll wait. You inability to recognize the weaknesses of the weapon and counter them is not our problem. Oh if someone thinks a weapon is OP is not a rationale for anything, What are the reasons for the generation of the thought. In this case the player associated the extreme strength of the MD in CQC as the rationale for his post. An area that is a dual edged sword for the weapon given the ability to kill yourself as often as getting kills on others with it. Why don't you go run around with a MD for an extended period of time and use it against GOOD players.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.02.17 16:17:00 - [3] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use something yourself before accusing it of being OP. You need to not only see its strengths, but experience its weaknesses. Compare your success witth the MD with results from other light weapons (AR, shotgun, laser, sniper). Your unfounded misinformed opinions could lead to nerfs that ruin legitimate balanced weapons/playstyles, and make them not worth using anymore (and a waste to develop and add to the game to begin with). A standard basic variant assault rifle contains more damage per magazine than a mass driver, and is way easier to use since it just shoots exactly where you point without having to predict paths. The standard basic variant assault rifle (which does 31 damage per shot) for example has 387.5 damage PER SECOND, which means in 2 SECONDS, it does 775 damage, enough to kill basically anyone but a well built heavy (which would just a second more second). The assault rifle can be used effectively at a greater ranges, and has no risk of damaging the user at close range unlike the mass driver. Compare this to a basic variant standard mass diver. An MD fires 60 rounds per minute, which is 1 round per second. It does 225 shots per second if its a direct hit; did you read that? only 225 per second, and that is ONLY if you get a direct hit (rare). The basic variant standard AR does 387.5. Landing a direct hit with a mass driver not only takes more skill to do then getting direct hits with the AR (since you have to predict trajectory), but also does LESS damage per second. Now to the splash damage, the splash damage is 115 per shot (and per second since 1 shot per second), and that is usually all you will get since direct hits are rare. 387.5 > 225 387.5 > 115 In exchange for the higher difficulty to use, less damage per magazine (1350 for MD < for 1860 AR) , less effective range, risk of self-harm, and the crappy DPS compared to the AR, the mass driver gets to bypass cover, and damage multiple enemies with splash damage, and the blast effect. Its a fair trade-off. How dare you use numbers, logic and reason to make a point, that's a violation of forum rules.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.02.17 16:35:00 - [4] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: They need to have a reload after 2 or 3 explosives or a much slower rate of fire. Shouldn't be able to spam 6 or more explosives. Weapon is way too cheesy No they don't Dubbs they really dont. 2-3 shots makes them useless as a supression weapon. The ROF is perfect for the regular variant. What ppl need to realize is it is a CQC monster similar to a shotty. View this weapon like a shotty and it becomes easier to counter. As for getting around corners with splash. Heres a thought move backwards and focus fire. You know what MD fails at hard teamfire. A reload after 2-3 shots has no suppression value at range, yes it diminishes its close quarter potential but at range the weapons is made for more area of denial. Keep in mind travel distance at range is far slower than LR, Sniper or any other weapon that can be used for suppression tactics. The ROF again ties into this. Take the breach out to get an idea and see how that weapon works as a suppresion weapon. The ROF is in the 40's the regular is in the 60's to reduce it further makes it less useful and utterly wasteful.. Keep in mind inside of CQC range like SMG optimal range MD will beat you AR users, but keep in mind we have to overcome shields first. But extend beyond this and its closer to 1:1 upwards of 2:1 even if we manage to get 2-4 kills with the weapon it almost always eats the whole clip and with a 4 SECOND RELOAD MD's are effed. Frankly make MD's miss on the first 1-2 shots and its game over for most unskilled MD's. If they recover thats skill period. Its not like an AR where you can auto fire the weapon and compensate for POOR AIM by simply autofire and strafe left/right until you hit your target. We have to strafe, adjust aim and then shoot so i really laugh when people say we get rewarded for missing compared to AR's who literally get rewarded way more for spray and pray hipfire tacitcs. However at AR optimal MD fails as much as it succeeds that the defnition of balanced. AR's who know what they are doing is ADS fire first few shots and hipfire to finish us off to overcome the impact recoil of MD. It's an explosive weapon it does damage, nerf it further and you have just reduced one of the few weapons that can COUNTER A HEAVY.. Which is my point we can't balance this game around AR users alone you have to look at perfect imbalance as that some weapons will crush other weapon types, be useful against other, and utterly fail against others. SR, LR, (AR at range and level ground) are all FAILS for MD. Why is it that anyone who uses a MD rarely has a KD over 2? Because the only way to achieve higher KD is to manage the MD optimal with height and camp. People don't like the MD because most AR's are running through the battlefield and manage their optimal range poorly and venture way too much into HMG, Shotty, MD, SMG optimal range. That's the real honest truth but nobody wants to admit that.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:51:00 - [5] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Mass driver hits too hard and is easy to aim. Been saying this for months now. I hope all the people who only expect to get assists with it continue to use it, though, so CCP will keep buffing it unnecessarily for me. TBF, you're an oddity easliy top 3 MD users in the game so yea, lets not balance the weapon around you noone else will be able to ever use it otherwise
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.02.17 17:56:00 - [6] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Tiel Syysch wrote: Mass driver hits too hard and is easy to aim. Been saying this for months now. I hope all the people who only expect to get assists with it continue to use it, though, so CCP will keep buffing it unnecessarily for me. The only weapon in the game with an arc based trajectory and you says its too easy to aim. Compared to what? Its easy to aim, what isn't easy is having the patience and discipline not to panic and spam rather than place the shots while taking fire.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.02.17 18:08:00 - [7] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Tiel Syysch wrote: Mass driver hits too hard and is easy to aim. Been saying this for months now. I hope all the people who only expect to get assists with it continue to use it, though, so CCP will keep buffing it unnecessarily for me. How the hell is it easy to aim? Every try hitting something more than 10m away? I have I think an 11.8 KDR using the mass driver almost exclusively. I hit people regularly at 80+ meters. It's really not that hard for me. But you are a GOD you are not like the rest of us mere mortals. Me thinks it has more to do with the user and not the weapon. Now stop fishing for these compliments you'll get no more from me