DUST Search - My Tank is OP (Legitimately Complaining Here)

Mortal Maximus wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Are you aware that YOU can make a Soma Super Tank (militia armor tank for those non-tankers out there) with 2978 shields, 5235 armor, a 10% militia armor damage reduction mod, 2 armor reppers and a 9% shield/armor damage reducing active module using only the skills needed to improve your dropsuits armor and shield modules to advanced level, building your passive dropsuit health skills, and increasing your CPU/PG to lvl 4?

I can also get 8837 EHP (3765 shield, 5235 armor) if I strictly go for max health, or I can cut down one shield mod and go with two armor reppers and one shield repper and have 3012 shields plus a light shield repper, and 5235 armor with two light armor reppers.

ALL of this on just a militia tank.

Thats far, FAR too much for a militia tank. And I've not specced for tanks one bit, I spec LAV's. I have small blaster turret skills at lvl 2, so I can fit small blasters slightly better than the next guy, and I now have powergrid upgrades to lvl 1, so I can use a basic power diagnostic system instead of the militia one. Apart from that, I have no advantages for fitting a tank that anyone else building strictly dropsuits wouldn't have.

All I do is tinker with tanks, I don't care for driving them. I build them up, test them out, and pass on my designs to interested parties. I look at the PG/CPU of an advanced tank, and I just imagine how much I could do with a REAL tank.

You shouldn't be able to fit this many high end modules on a low end tank, and you shouldn't be able to fit as much on an advanced tank as you can either. High end tanks? Fit whatever you want, but the lower end tanks need to have their PG/CPU reduced. SERIOUSLY reduced. It shouldn't be this easy to pimp out a tank with no skills in tank stuff.

Also, the lower end mods for vehicles need to be nerfed and cost less PG/CPU to equip. The bottom bracket mods for heavy or light extenders/plates shouldn't be almost as strong as the high end ones, but they also shouldn't cost almost the same PG/CPU. For example:

The current difference between 120mm armor mods-

Steel
1360 HP
20 CPU
580 PG

Nanofibre
1224 HP
12 CPU
464 PG

Polycrystalline
1564 HP
19 PG
551 CPU

There is a range here of about 300 HP from the lowest to highest. Basically, I think the top level mods and mid level mods should remain the same, but the bottom level mods need to be lower in HP and PG/CPU costs than the mid level mods, closer to the next mods down on the food chain. In this case the closest level plate to the nanofibre (which, since it's the lowest HP plate) according to HP & fitting requirements is the 60mm polycrystalline plate, which has 782 HP. The lowest tier 120mm plate needs to be around 900ish HP, a step up from the polycrystalline 60mm, and have lower fitting requirements to fit it's drop in HP.

Please drop the CPU/PG in this way and tier the mods correctly.

Note: And if you ever want to chat about how to make a militia super tank, hit me up. I love toying with fittings.

I don't think i understand how to drop the PCG and the CPU still 0.0 so can it be more simply explained?


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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.16 07:09:00 - [1] - Quote Are you aware that YOU can make a Soma Super Tank (militia armor tank for those non-tankers out there) with 2978 shields, 5235 armor, a 10% militia armor damage reduction mod, 2 armor reppers and a 9% shield/armor damage reducing active module using only the skills needed to improve your dropsuits armor and shield modules to advanced level, building your passive dropsuit health skills, and increasing your CPU/PG to lvl 4? I can also get 8837 EHP (3765 shield, 5235 armor) if I strictly go for max health, or I can cut down one shield mod and go with two armor reppers and one shield repper and have 3012 shields plus a light shield repper, and 5235 armor with two light armor reppers. ALL of this on just a militia tank. Thats far, FAR too much for a militia tank. And I've not specced for tanks one bit, I spec LAV's. I have small blaster turret skills at lvl 2, so I can fit small blasters slightly better than the next guy, and I now have powergrid upgrades to lvl 1, so I can use a basic power diagnostic system instead of the militia one. Apart from that, I have no advantages for fitting a tank that anyone else building strictly dropsuits wouldn't have. All I do is tinker with tanks, I don't care for driving them. I build them up, test them out, and pass on my designs to interested parties. I look at the PG/CPU of an advanced tank, and I just imagine how much I could do with a REAL tank. You shouldn't be able to fit this many high end modules on a low end tank, and you shouldn't be able to fit as much on an advanced tank as you can either. High end tanks? Fit whatever you want, but the lower end tanks need to have their PG/CPU reduced. SERIOUSLY reduced. It shouldn't be this easy to pimp out a tank with no skills in tank stuff. Also, the lower end mods for vehicles need to be nerfed and cost less PG/CPU to equip. The bottom bracket mods for heavy or light extenders/plates shouldn't be almost as strong as the high end ones, but they also shouldn't cost almost the same PG/CPU. For example: The current difference between 120mm armor mods- Steel 1360 HP 20 CPU 580 PG Nanofibre 1224 HP 12 CPU 464 PG Polycrystalline 1564 HP 19 PG 551 CPU There is a range here of about 300 HP from the lowest to highest. Basically, I think the top level mods and mid level mods should remain the same, but the bottom level mods need to be lower in HP and PG/CPU costs than the mid level mods, closer to the next mods down on the food chain. In this case the closest level plate to the nanofibre (which, since it's the lowest HP plate) according to HP & fitting requirements is the 60mm polycrystalline plate, which has 782 HP. The lowest tier 120mm plate needs to be around 900ish HP, a step up from the polycrystalline 60mm, and have lower fitting requirements to fit it's drop in HP. Please drop the CPU/PG in this way and tier the mods correctly. Note: And if you ever want to chat about how to make a militia super tank, hit me up. I love toying with fittings.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.17 02:34:00 - [2] - Quote Are those of you with inflated egos done bragging yet? This isn't about you. The point isn't that this fit is OP vs people who spec for dealing with this, the point is that it's OP because anyone can build it for general pub matches against regular, low level noobs who know nothing about taking out tanks. It's bad enough that Zitro, Zdawwg, and all of the other big tankers are so afraid of getting a scratch on their precious K/D that they feel they need to pull out the best possible tank they can every match they go into against complete noobs (which is, quite honestly, very pathetic, especially since the majority of them aren't even out of militia gear yet), but the fact that anyone who has basic dropsuit skills can build a halfway decent tank without any skills into tanks, and drop it into a match filled with complete noobs, is just plain stupid. This isn't a complaint about my tank being too strong for AV players or other tankers, it's a complaint that people who don't put in the effort to build tank skills can still easily wipe the floor in the average pub match with a tank that cost them no SP investment and very little ISK. And as for the 2 light reppers, it's more than enough when you only have ~5k armor and around 3K shields plus a shield booster to buffer your armor from explosive damage. I don't really do tanks, but even with my poor tanking skills I've dropped 5 gunloggis with it so far, so it's not quite as bad as you guys seem pointedly want to make it out to be. Edit: This isn't closed beta anymore, people will be flooding in from now on. That means things need to be balanced for the new players as well as those already specced well enough to deal with a tank like this.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.17 04:50:00 - [3] - Quote Thranx1231 wrote: As others have stated above. I popped a Gunlogi by myself with my fat suit and my favorite Forge Gun. Driver thought he could run. He couldn't run far enough because I had situational advantage denying the driver from getting Repped before my mods and skills allowed the Forge Gun to give me +150, +50, +50 and I wish they have found one more Gunner to finish out my set. That was work. Your setup? Not so much. You have forgotten the two basic Rules in RPGs. Skills and Mods (whatever the game calls them) changes everything. Weaponry lvl 5 +10% damage to all hand held weapons. Forge Gun Ops, reduces charge time. Heavy Weapon Sharpshooter adds range. Heavy Weapon Reload makes Forge Gun reloads reasonable. 10% Damage mod. Assault Forge Gun, 1200 + 120 + 120, four rounds = 5760. Breach Forge Gun, 2100 + 210 + 210, four rounds = 10080. Neither of these are Advanced weapons. Do the math on Advanced and Proto Forge Guns then look at your Single Clip Death Trap with fresh eyes. Add some friendly Blue helpers with a Flux Grenade and what little shields the Soma had are gone. Instantly. Sica and Flux? Serious troubles ahead. Or a Blue with AV grenades and a HIV gets me 50% of the kills but you are still very much dead. Same for Swarmers and I haven't even skilled into Swarm Launchers as yet. Until you drive a tank, do not assume that tweaking a spreadsheet will win either an encounter nor a battle. Interesting and entertaining though the numbers are. Ahem.... Baal Omniscient wrote: Are those of you with inflated egos done bragging yet? This isn't about you. The point isn't that this fit is OP vs people who spec for dealing with this, the point is that it's OP because anyone can build it for general pub matches against regular, low level noobs who know nothing about taking out tanks. It's bad enough that Zitro, Zdawwg, and all of the other big tankers are so afraid of getting a scratch on their precious K/D that they feel they need to pull out the best possible tank they can every match they go into against complete noobs (which is, quite honestly, very pathetic, especially since the majority of them aren't even out of militia gear yet), but the fact that anyone who has basic dropsuit skills can build a halfway decent tank without any skills into tanks, and drop it into a match filled with complete noobs, is just plain stupid. This isn't a complaint about my tank being too strong for AV players or other tankers, it's a complaint that people who don't put in the effort to build tank skills can still easily wipe the floor in the average pub match with a tank that cost them no SP investment and very little ISK. And as for the 2 light reppers, it's more than enough when you only have ~5k armor and around 3K shields plus a shield booster to buffer your armor from explosive damage. I don't really do tanks, but even with my poor tanking skills I've dropped 5 gunloggis with it so far, so it's not quite as bad as you guys seem pointedly want to make it out to be. Edit: This isn't closed beta anymore, people will be flooding in from now on. That means things need to be balanced for the new players as well as those already specced well enough to deal with a tank like this. As I stated above, this is about those without the SP invested, not those with.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.17 06:46:00 - [4] - Quote lol, keep building on each others posts instead of responding to my responses to them. Does nothing but show you have no counter argument. Once someone with a valid counter argument comes in, I'll be happy to debate the issue. Until then, I'll just kick back and watch you floundering for insults instead of using your head. For the last time, this isn't about your skill investments, it's about how easily someone can put a semi decent tank into a pub match full of noobs with little SP investment at all.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.02.18 21:31:00 - [5] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Well, several people, including myself, already did so, and we're still waiting for your response to these simple points brought up: They are evaiding the main point of the issue by saying "they can just pull the same tank", but READ my last few posts since you at least seem to wish to debate the issue properly. It's not about being able to pull it, it's about anyone with basic dropsuit skills being able to pull this kind of tank with no SP invested in tanks at all into a match full of complete noobs. It's as much a matchmaking problem as anything, but the whole point here, I say again, IS THAT YOU CAN DO THIS WITH NO TANK SP INVESTMENT TO MOP UP NOOBS WITH. That's not right since they've not had the chance to earn SP for AV. There should be a lower, less powerful tank to break them in on. Eskel Bondfree wrote: If you can build that "overpowered" tank without any HAV skills, then everybody can. Where's the problem If you bring that "super tank" to a match, then anybody with a brain can just pull out the same super tank and voila, the match is perfectly balanced again as far as tanks go.[/quote] That's just my point, with no SP investment into tanks, you can pull this tank out and wreck noob face. They CAN'T pull it, they are noobs with little SP investment in anything, they shouldn't have to be put up against this or any other tank unless the person bringing in the tank has at least put points into tanks. I'm basically saying make the militia ones a basic level tank and make a new, weaker militia tank. Talruum Tezztarozza wrote: If you complain that it is OP because you owned in pub match and nobody bother taking you out. Then, this is not about any specific weapon/skill/build balance. This is about learning cliff and vet vs newberries issue, aka match making. See above. And finally, Eskel Bondfree wrote: This is exactly the point of militia gear. Note the difference between "halfway decent" and "advanced/prototype". Again, see above. Where I said "I'm basically saying make the militia ones a basic level tank and make a new, weaker militia tank." Militia tanks are too easy to fit well.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 253	Posted - 2013.02.26 16:03:00 - [6] - Quote Mortal Maximus wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Are you aware that YOU can make a Soma Super Tank (militia armor tank for those non-tankers out there) with 2978 shields, 5235 armor, a 10% militia armor damage reduction mod, 2 armor reppers and a 9% shield/armor damage reducing active module using only the skills needed to improve your dropsuits armor and shield modules to advanced level, building your passive dropsuit health skills, and increasing your CPU/PG to lvl 4? I can also get 8837 EHP (3765 shield, 5235 armor) if I strictly go for max health, or I can cut down one shield mod and go with two armor reppers and one shield repper and have 3012 shields plus a light shield repper, and 5235 armor with two light armor reppers. ALL of this on just a militia tank. Thats far, FAR too much for a militia tank. And I've not specced for tanks one bit, I spec LAV's. I have small blaster turret skills at lvl 2, so I can fit small blasters slightly better than the next guy, and I now have powergrid upgrades to lvl 1, so I can use a basic power diagnostic system instead of the militia one. Apart from that, I have no advantages for fitting a tank that anyone else building strictly dropsuits wouldn't have. All I do is tinker with tanks, I don't care for driving them. I build them up, test them out, and pass on my designs to interested parties. I look at the PG/CPU of an advanced tank, and I just imagine how much I could do with a REAL tank. You shouldn't be able to fit this many high end modules on a low end tank, and you shouldn't be able to fit as much on an advanced tank as you can either. High end tanks? Fit whatever you want, but the lower end tanks need to have their PG/CPU reduced. SERIOUSLY reduced. It shouldn't be this easy to pimp out a tank with no skills in tank stuff. Also, the lower end mods for vehicles need to be nerfed and cost less PG/CPU to equip. The bottom bracket mods for heavy or light extenders/plates shouldn't be almost as strong as the high end ones, but they also shouldn't cost almost the same PG/CPU. For example: The current difference between 120mm armor mods- Steel 1360 HP 20 CPU 580 PG Nanofibre 1224 HP 12 CPU 464 PG Polycrystalline 1564 HP 19 PG 551 CPU There is a range here of about 300 HP from the lowest to highest. Basically, I think the top level mods and mid level mods should remain the same, but the bottom level mods need to be lower in HP and PG/CPU costs than the mid level mods, closer to the next mods down on the food chain. In this case the closest level plate to the nanofibre (which, since it's the lowest HP plate) according to HP & fitting requirements is the 60mm polycrystalline plate, which has 782 HP. The lowest tier 120mm plate needs to be around 900ish HP, a step up from the polycrystalline 60mm, and have lower fitting requirements to fit it's drop in HP. Please drop the CPU/PG in this way and tier the mods correctly. Note: And if you ever want to chat about how to make a militia super tank, hit me up. I love toying with fittings. I don't think i understand how to drop the PCG and the CPU still 0.0 so can it be more simply explained? Basically you drop the total CPU/PG output of the tank itself, then lower the PG/CPU requirements and power (i.e. hardner %, HP, etc.) of the lower tiered mods. This way the weaker tanks can't fit high powered mods. That is what I was suggesting. It would not affect higher tiered tanks much if any, but it would make lower tiered tanks not quite so easy to buff up