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Landari Zeta
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
16
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Posted - 2013.02.15 10:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a relatively lengthy post from an EVE players impression on DUST. I urge everyone to read this post in its fullest, but I summed it up near the bottom for those who can't bear the awful thought of a lot of reading.
As a long time EVE Online player, I feel that something from DUST is seriously missing. The open world.
I do fully understand this is a beta and we haven't been told the whole story on whats behind the scenes, but this game really lacks any sense of immersion. I love DUST 514 and I love the universe of New Eden even more. That is why this game burns me so much. I feel trapped, locked in a small box when I play this game. The complete opposite of EVE. Restricted to lobbies and instanced battles with forgettable maps, it feels inadequate. I really hate to say this nasty acronym, but it feels like CoD with a nice little mercenary quarters instead of a Main Menu. The games are instanced and small with people already memorizing the best places to camp and spawn kill.
This sadly does not feel like the little brother EVE Online deserves. Well, not currently at least.
Right now my biggest fear is that there will be a set, fixed number of pre-arranged Maps that all battles will take place on. I understand the difficulties of creating different terrain for each and every world in New Eden. The idea of completely unique battlefields on each and every world with completely unique layouts is probably one of the biggest things about this game that drew me in. I suppose it should be more akin to playing EVE and jumping between systems. No two solar systems are alike, they each have their own unique locations and histories. Now I understand that completely mapping a planet and turning DUST into an exploration/war game would seem like an incredibly daunting task for CCP, especially this early, but it's something EVE Players have been looking forward to since DUST 514's announcement all those years ago.
For those who never played EVE, DUST 514 seems like a forgettable Sci-Fi shooter with a difficult learning curve. I think CCP needs to make it more than that. The Vision you showed the world was that of vast open battlefields with dropship and HAV formations attacking and defending Capsuleer and Empire colonies with fleet battles occurring many kilometers overhead. In its current iteration, it feels like the aimless Sci-Fi shooter I earlier mentioned if it weren't for its flimsy ties to EVE Online.
Now I really hate bringing in examples of other games to a Beta board, I really do. I don't want to bring PlanetSide into this, but yes, PlanetSide did the Sandbox right. A bit messy however. Long before PlanetSide 2's launch, DUST 514 was the biggest contender to the throne of the open world MMOFPS. Ongoing battles for control with tank columns and dropships arriving on the scene is what we want from DUST 514. Calling in HAV's and even Dropships of all things to the fight long after it started completely breaks it for me. Dropships should be carrying troops to battle, not coming to the troops already in battle via another dropship. HAV's should be rolling into the fray to offer support, not be called in just to have the guy sitting under a rock waiting for it to arrive.
The current battle setups are the one thing that kills me the most. Instancing. I do hope in the final version of the game will be somewhat open. We don't want simple instant 'matches' that start and end with a simple payout. We want the ability to fight on a world as open as New Eden. We want the ability to fly in more mercenaries to a losing battle to tip the favor. We want to accept contracts to secure a Capsuleer colony without waiting for an enemy corporation to agree to fight us over it. DUST 514 is a branch off of EVE, it think it should be damn near as open a sandbox as EVE itself.
Now please, do not hate me for my input. I know the dramatic leaps EVE Online has taken long after its launch and it was those great leaps of content with each expansion that made EVE Online and CCP stand out. I just pray DUST 514 follows in its footsteps. You gave us high expectations, try not to let us down.
TL;DR DUST 514 feels too much like a normal FPS for what it was supposed to be. We were given the impression that we would have open battlefields on unique worlds with unique maps with a measure of control on how the battles take place instead of instanced "CoD" matches with a simple payout.
Please, feel free to add to this fellow EVE veterans.
EDIT: Somebody posted a good clip from YouTube about individual Terrain and Maps. Thank You KAGEHOSHI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNmCRti9dFM&feature=youtu.be&t=17m15s |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2013.02.15 10:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Now you lie in criogenic sleep my friend. Just wait your clone is almost ready and grow up.
This is only Criogenic Virtual Training. Soon you will be free. |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
44
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Posted - 2013.02.15 10:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
To be honest, i still trying to work out exactly what CCP is trying to do here.
When i first hear about Dust 514, i thought, "ahhh so PlanetSide 2 for the PS3", then i started playing the game, and was like, " OK, Battlefield 2142 then", after few hours of playing, i got that " Star Wars : Battlefront 2 " feeling, and after few days of playing, started to feel like a weird version of CoD.
I have not idea where this is going....maybe CCP could give us a "clue". |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2013.02.15 10:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP is constrained by the limitations of the PS3. At Fanfest 2012, they said one of the reasons they weren't (at that point) seriously looking at anything besides temperate-class planets to fight over was because the art assets for different planet types would push them over the edge in terms of PS3 memory.
That said, larger maps are coming. Next build will have 48 players/24 vehicles, as per the CCP guy on the Cast 514 podcast #9. They are making the maps bigger as the engine allows it, and that same CCP guy speculated that in two or three years they could see Dust battles involving 100 players or more.
So, for a lot of it, you just have to wait. The PS3 is not exactly cutting edge hardware. It has major limitations compared to the average gaming PC. Bigger, more immersive experiences will have to creep into the game as the technology permits.
As for the contracts stuff, that's coming with nullsec, which is a ways off. Instant Battle will always be there as a quick and easy way to play a match, but yeah, the plan is for eventually EVE-related contracts to be issued. If you want to get involved in that, you'll, again, need to be patient, but also get in a corp that will plan to play in that kind of highly competitive environment. |
BulletSnitcheZ
SVER'S ELITE
2
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Posted - 2013.02.15 13:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
I completely agree with everything you said landari. As a DUST 514 player, i want this game to really feel like i'm completely immersed in the same open and expansive universe as EVE online players.
DUST 514 is a little too instantaneous right now. In Eve online, it can take players 5 - 10 or even 30 minutes to travel to different parts of the universe in their starships. In DUST, you just magically pop up on different planets while traveling in Clone Ships that EVE players can't even see or shoot at! In the future, they should allow EVE Online players to destroy our Clone ships which would decrease the amount clones we have in battle.
Anyway, I just think that CCP should apply the same type of free-roaming, no-holds-barred gameplay to DUST 514 as they did EVE online. That would really set DUST apart from other boring FPS games like Call of Duty. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2013.02.15 14:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
BulletSnitcheZ wrote:DUST 514 is a little too instantaneous right now. In Eve online, it can take players 5 - 10 or even 30 minutes to travel to different parts of the universe in their starships. In DUST, you just magically pop up on different planets while traveling in Clone Ships that EVE players can't even see or shoot at ! In the future, they should allow EVE Online players to destroy our Clone ships which would decrease the amount clones we have in battle.
CCP would be very foolish to ever make the basic process of getting into a game in Dust time consuming or imbalanced by events out of the hands of players, like "clone ships" being "shot down". Traveling in EVE is time consuming and boring. If they made players wait 10 - 30 minutes to travel to a fight every time they hit Instant Battle, it'd be the end of the game. Nobody wants to wait long periods of time to play a single game. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2013.02.15 14:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
^ The Instant Battles could still be there, allowing Mercs to just jump into a fight. And remember, we're clones we could always just "spawn" at whatever planet/station we were going to. This idea is more for those who WANT a slower, more immersive type of game style. I don't see a reason why the game couldn't cater to both. Most open world games offer a Fast Travel System for those who don't want to run/drive/ride for twenty minutes to get to where their going. But some people like to take their time and see the sights on their way. |
BulletSnitcheZ
SVER'S ELITE
2
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Posted - 2013.02.15 15:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote: CCP would be very foolish to ever make the basic process of getting into a game in Dust time consuming or imbalanced by events out of the hands of players, like "clone ships" being "shot down".
In EVE Online, there's 2 different types of areas in the universe, High-Security areas and Low-Security areas. In High-sec, Eve pilots get destroyed by police in about 5-10 seconds if they ever try to attack other players. In Low-sec areas, there's no police, and EVE pilots don't hesitate to destroy other ships that are mining resources from planets. The resources found in Low-sec areas are obviously MUCH more valuable than the ones found in High-sec.
all of the instant battles in DUST take place in High-Sec while all of the Player Corporation Battles take place in Low-sec.
If CCP were to implement my idea, it would allow corporations to be better equipped at taking control & defending different areas of the universe. It wouldn't be fair to allow us mercenaries to travel around ANY area of the universe to acquire resources without the risk of losing our clones along the way. It doesn't work that way in EVE and it shouldn't in DUST 514 either.
Quote:Traveling in EVE is time consuming and boring. If they made players wait 10 - 30 minutes to travel to a fight every time they hit Instant Battle, it'd be the end of the game. Nobody wants to wait long periods of time to play a single game. When it comes to corporation battles, It'd be nice if they'd allow the squad leaders 5 - 10 minutes to map/plan out their strategy in the lobby area. It already takes about 20 minutes for a corporation battle to start ANYWAY. Instant battles could stay the way they are. Besides, CCP could simply make our Clone Ships warp faster than regular ships to solve that problem. |
slystylz vassar
Military Gamers
7
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Posted - 2013.02.15 15:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
With all this recommendation talk, is there a CCP list of 'project' in work for us to review? |
Landari Zeta
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
16
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Posted - 2013.02.15 21:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maybe Mercenaries will get a Jump Drive capable ship on a cruiser scale. Maybe CONCORD will give the Mercenaries special clearance to jump long distances in Hisec. Now that is what I would consider a lore friendly way for mercenary travel. |
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SickJ
French unchained corporation
48
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Posted - 2013.02.16 02:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
A while ago I heard talk of fast travel via transferring into a clone in a different area (called 'gate-cloning' or somesuch). No need for ships, just a solid communication line and available clones at the destination. |
Landari Zeta
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
16
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Posted - 2013.02.16 03:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
SickJ wrote:A while ago I heard talk of fast travel via transferring into a clone in a different area (called 'gate-cloning' or somesuch). No need for ships, just a solid communication line and available clones at the destination.
Actually in EVE they are called Jump Clones. They give Capsuleers the ability to transfer consciousness over many light years into a different body instantly. Would be interesting if that's the same system Mercenaries use, but not sure how it would work in a lore friendly way. |
SickJ
French unchained corporation
48
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Posted - 2013.02.24 06:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Landari Zeta wrote:SickJ wrote:A while ago I heard talk of fast travel via transferring into a clone in a different area (called 'gate-cloning' or somesuch). No need for ships, just a solid communication line and available clones at the destination. Actually in EVE they are called Jump Clones. They give Capsuleers the ability to transfer consciousness over many light years into a different body instantly. Would be interesting if that's the same system Mercenaries use, but not sure how it would work in a lore friendly way. What is there in the lore that would keep us from using Jump Clones? |
Jathniel
G I A N T
39
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Posted - 2013.02.24 07:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
SickJ wrote:What is there in the lore that would keep us from using Jump Clones?
From what I've gathered from some EVE players, the lore has it that us Dusters have actually gone crazy, so we're just randomly killing each other in our clone bodies that apparently only last like 48 hours anyway.
We're supposed to be insane nutcases, so we're not supposed to know how to use Jump Clones. x_x
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Landari Zeta
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
16
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Posted - 2013.02.25 02:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well generally speaking, Jump Clones are more or less permanent bodies where Mercenary Clones are basically as disposable as the gear they are wearing. I think the mercs actual body is plugged up somewhere safe. I guess if you just make clones on the distant battlefields with medical facilities there really isnt a reason for mercs to move. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
204
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Posted - 2013.02.25 03:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Landari Zeta wrote:SickJ wrote:A while ago I heard talk of fast travel via transferring into a clone in a different area (called 'gate-cloning' or somesuch). No need for ships, just a solid communication line and available clones at the destination. Actually in EVE they are called Jump Clones. They give Capsuleers the ability to transfer consciousness over many light years into a different body instantly. Would be interesting if that's the same system Mercenaries use, but not sure how it would work in a lore friendly way.
It is already covered in lore:
http://dust514.com/media/fiction/stranded-part-one/
Specifically, this paragraph:
Quote:Hotswaps were common in areas of the galaxy where the fighting was particularly intense. There was seldom time to pack everything up. Far more efficient to redeploy on the frontlines and let the Reclaimers do the cleaning up. Somebody in operations would hit the kill switch and every clone keyed with the proper ident would drop dead where they stood. Seconds later they would wake up on the other side of the planet or half a galaxy away GÇô the exact location seldom mattered anymore - ready to fight. This time Balac never made it.
The same principal can apply in stations, as the merc just wills to travel, the body dies and drones immediately put the fresh corpse into a clone vat for a quick "reset" and revivification to save money. Meanwhile your merc wakes up a thousand light years away. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
204
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Posted - 2013.02.25 03:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:SickJ wrote:What is there in the lore that would keep us from using Jump Clones? From what I've gathered from some EVE players, the lore has it that us Dusters have actually gone crazy, so we're just randomly killing each other in our clone bodies that apparently only last like 48 hours anyway. We're supposed to be insane nutcases, so we're not supposed to know how to use Jump Clones. x_x
Those were the "alpha" mercs which were created by the Amarr using stolen Sleeper implants.
Later the Amarr (and/or Mordu's Legion) reverse engineered the tech to end the problems (and to avoid waking up the Sleepers).
Thus were created the "beta" mercs- that's us. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
204
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 03:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Landari Zeta wrote:Well generally speaking, Jump Clones are more or less permanent bodies where Mercenary Clones are basically as disposable as the gear they are wearing. I think the mercs actual body is plugged up somewhere safe. I guess if you just make clones on the distant battlefields with medical facilities there really isnt a reason for mercs to move.
Merc's birth body is dead:
Quote:ItGÇÖs hours before IGÇÖm allowed to return to my quarters. I donGÇÖt see it until IGÇÖm almost on top of it. Lying in the middle of the floor is a gun, and underneath it, a handwritten note with just two words on it: KILL YOURSELF. I would learn, much later, that seven days is the maximum allotted time for a recruit to commit suicide and complete the procedure. Anyone who fails to do so is removed from the program permanently. They could kill you, of course. A single pill or injection would be far more efficient. Instead, they had you do it yourself. ItGÇÖs a test, the first of many.
From http://dust514.com/media/fiction/stranded-part-seven/
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