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Schazla
WarRavens
159
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Posted - 2013.02.14 13:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
That would be awesome! |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 14:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
SoonGäó but not so soon |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.14 14:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you're talking about player ships it's not so much "Soon(tm)" as it is "that's a dumb idea, and it's never going to happen."
That said, if you're talking about PvE applications, or sovereignty (station and POS control) then yeah, that's pretty awesome and I bet it's coming.
To narcissisticaly quote one of my own previous posts.
Quote:I want you guys to picture something with me. A team of capsuleers take an activation gate into a plex or high level mission. There, behold, is the enemy command ship. It activates specialized hardening systems, similar to those on a POS, preventing the capsuleers from damaging it. While most deal with the smaller ships defending the command ship, one activates a specialized electronic warfare module which hacks clone modules on the ship, allowing friendly mercs to activate their own clones on board. As the mercs advance against the defending bots (be they drones, sansha, or whatever) they capture an objective, disabling the hardener. They then attempt to hold that position while the capsuleers, still dealing with the command ship's minions, take advantage of this moment of vulnerability to break through the command ship's shields. Finally, the command ship begins taking armor damage. Oh no, it has a second hardening system for its armor! The mercs advance again, traversing everything from cramped hallways, to barracks, to massive open hangars containing deployable drones and packaged ships, to reach and hack the second hardener. They hack it, and again must hold it until the capsuleers can destroy the ship's armor. As the command ship begins taking hull damage its commanders accept defeat and decide to take the boarders down with them. A self destruct sequence has been activated. Our mercs are faced with a choice: head back where they started and hope to escape before the ship goes up? Or move for the CIC, defeat the commanders and their elite guards, and hack the ship's computers to stop the self destruct, thus allowing better loot and salvage, and perhaps a WP/SP bonus to all involved. |
Anndy Dusty
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2013.02.14 14:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
i dont really see how it could work anyway, ships die so fast in eve theres really no time to actually get a battle setup inside the ship not to mention time to even fight the battle and you cant expect ships to just stop fighting each other and wait, i dont even see it being possible with titans/mother ships
i think fighting in stations is planned tho |
Schazla
WarRavens
159
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 14:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Anndy Dusty wrote:i dont really see how it could work anyway, ships die so fast in eve theres really no time to actually get a battle setup inside the ship not to mention time to even fight the battle and you cant expect ships to just stop fighting each other and wait, i dont even see it being possible with titans/mother ships
i think fighting in stations is planned tho k |
develsgun
Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising
19
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Posted - 2013.02.14 15:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Max survival of an eve ship in combat is 5 minutes in a decent fight.
Average survival about 1 minute and it can possible be less
Lets see u people get a match set up and fight and still escape with ur dropsuit
Pve options is the only way to go with us |
Gelan Corbaine
BetaMax.
103
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Posted - 2013.02.14 15:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
A Dev mentioned recently they would like ship combat somewhere within a three year period with an Eve ship fitted with a drill bit insertion pod as a means of getting us there . So yeah Soon tm but m |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.02.14 15:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gelan Corbaine wrote:A Dev mentioned recently they would like ship combat somewhere within a three year period with an Eve ship fitted with a drill bit insertion pod as a means of getting us there . So yeah Soon tm but m
When a developer from ccp promises 3 years out, translate it to 10 years out.
Overall as it stands in the universe now, the idea is stupid, when eve ships can die nearly as fast as a dust bunny can, ship boarding seems trivalized to the level of why? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2013.02.14 15:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
You will never sell EVE players on this idea. The fact that its just not a good idea to be begin with doesn't help.
EVE is in space.
Dust is on planets.
Direct social interaction between both games through Incarna spaces? Hell yes! EVE players being forced into stupid new mechanics to defend themselves from console players podding them from inside their ship? Yeah, good luck with that. |
Schazla
WarRavens
159
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Posted - 2013.02.14 15:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:You will never sell EVE players on this idea. The fact that its just not a good idea to be begin with doesn't help.
EVE is in space.
Dust is on planets.
Direct social interaction between both games through Incarna spaces? Hell yes! EVE players being forced into stupid new mechanics to defend themselves from console players podding them from inside their ship? Yeah, good luck with that. Planets are in space. |
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Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:If you're talking about player ships it's not so much "Soon(tm)" as it is "that's a dumb idea, and it's never going to happen." That said, if you're talking about PvE applications, or sovereignty (station and POS control) then yeah, that's pretty awesome and I bet it's coming. To narcissisticaly quote one of my own previous posts. Quote:I want you guys to picture something with me. A team of capsuleers take an activation gate into a plex or high level mission. There, behold, is the enemy command ship. It activates specialized hardening systems, similar to those on a POS, preventing the capsuleers from damaging it. While most deal with the smaller ships defending the command ship, one activates a specialized electronic warfare module which hacks clone modules on the ship, allowing friendly mercs to activate their own clones on board. As the mercs advance against the defending bots (be they drones, sansha, or whatever) they capture an objective, disabling the hardener. They then attempt to hold that position while the capsuleers, still dealing with the command ship's minions, take advantage of this moment of vulnerability to break through the command ship's shields. Finally, the command ship begins taking armor damage. Oh no, it has a second hardening system for its armor! The mercs advance again, traversing everything from cramped hallways, to barracks, to massive open hangars containing deployable drones and packaged ships, to reach and hack the second hardener. They hack it, and again must hold it until the capsuleers can destroy the ship's armor. As the command ship begins taking hull damage its commanders accept defeat and decide to take the boarders down with them. A self destruct sequence has been activated. Our mercs are faced with a choice: head back where they started and hope to escape before the ship goes up? Or move for the CIC, defeat the commanders and their elite guards, and hack the ship's computers to stop the self destruct, thus allowing better loot and salvage, and perhaps a WP/SP bonus to all involved.
Actually there has been an article about ccp implementing boarding SOONGäó
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develsgun
Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 17:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:If you're talking about player ships it's not so much "Soon(tm)" as it is "that's a dumb idea, and it's never going to happen." That said, if you're talking about PvE applications, or sovereignty (station and POS control) then yeah, that's pretty awesome and I bet it's coming. To narcissisticaly quote one of my own previous posts. Quote:I want you guys to picture something with me. A team of capsuleers take an activation gate into a plex or high level mission. There, behold, is the enemy command ship. It activates specialized hardening systems, similar to those on a POS, preventing the capsuleers from damaging it. While most deal with the smaller ships defending the command ship, one activates a specialized electronic warfare module which hacks clone modules on the ship, allowing friendly mercs to activate their own clones on board. As the mercs advance against the defending bots (be they drones, sansha, or whatever) they capture an objective, disabling the hardener. They then attempt to hold that position while the capsuleers, still dealing with the command ship's minions, take advantage of this moment of vulnerability to break through the command ship's shields. Finally, the command ship begins taking armor damage. Oh no, it has a second hardening system for its armor! The mercs advance again, traversing everything from cramped hallways, to barracks, to massive open hangars containing deployable drones and packaged ships, to reach and hack the second hardener. They hack it, and again must hold it until the capsuleers can destroy the ship's armor. As the command ship begins taking hull damage its commanders accept defeat and decide to take the boarders down with them. A self destruct sequence has been activated. Our mercs are faced with a choice: head back where they started and hope to escape before the ship goes up? Or move for the CIC, defeat the commanders and their elite guards, and hack the ship's computers to stop the self destruct, thus allowing better loot and salvage, and perhaps a WP/SP bonus to all involved. Actually there has been an article about ccp implementing boarding SOONGäó Link the article or it didnt happen. And if it did it was probally mis read as it is impossible for. Boarding to become possible in eves PvP |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 17:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
develsgun wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:If you're talking about player ships it's not so much "Soon(tm)" as it is "that's a dumb idea, and it's never going to happen." That said, if you're talking about PvE applications, or sovereignty (station and POS control) then yeah, that's pretty awesome and I bet it's coming. To narcissisticaly quote one of my own previous posts. Quote:I want you guys to picture something with me. A team of capsuleers take an activation gate into a plex or high level mission. There, behold, is the enemy command ship. It activates specialized hardening systems, similar to those on a POS, preventing the capsuleers from damaging it. While most deal with the smaller ships defending the command ship, one activates a specialized electronic warfare module which hacks clone modules on the ship, allowing friendly mercs to activate their own clones on board. As the mercs advance against the defending bots (be they drones, sansha, or whatever) they capture an objective, disabling the hardener. They then attempt to hold that position while the capsuleers, still dealing with the command ship's minions, take advantage of this moment of vulnerability to break through the command ship's shields. Finally, the command ship begins taking armor damage. Oh no, it has a second hardening system for its armor! The mercs advance again, traversing everything from cramped hallways, to barracks, to massive open hangars containing deployable drones and packaged ships, to reach and hack the second hardener. They hack it, and again must hold it until the capsuleers can destroy the ship's armor. As the command ship begins taking hull damage its commanders accept defeat and decide to take the boarders down with them. A self destruct sequence has been activated. Our mercs are faced with a choice: head back where they started and hope to escape before the ship goes up? Or move for the CIC, defeat the commanders and their elite guards, and hack the ship's computers to stop the self destruct, thus allowing better loot and salvage, and perhaps a WP/SP bonus to all involved. Actually there has been an article about ccp implementing boarding SOONGäó Link the article or it didnt happen. And if it did it was probally mis read as it is impossible for. Boarding to become possible in eves PvP Not so impossible anymore
|
develsgun
Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 17:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thats a news article ccp says a lot to the press thats just speculations and such as was his comment yes the idea is concievable and I myself could possible right a very bsic form of code that would somewhat show this but realistaclly eve pvp battles are to short for this to be ship v ship. So everyone get ur eyes off bording a erebus controled by eve players. What he described is possible but u will only see them launched outposts and pos structures.or as a form of corp pve utilizing the mcc. Eve players wont be involved as the speed of the pve and payout is to small for capsullers |
Himiko Kuronaga
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
develsgun wrote:Thats a news article ccp says a lot to the press thats just speculations and such as was his comment yes the idea is concievable and I myself could possible right a very bsic form of code that would somewhat show this but realistaclly eve pvp battles are to short for this to be ship v ship. So everyone get ur eyes off bording a erebus controled by eve players. What he described is possible but u will only see them launched outposts and pos structures.or as a form of corp pve utilizing the mcc. Eve players wont be involved as the speed of the pve and payout is to small for capsullers
Sir I do believe you got owned by the article.
It's time to walk away now. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think it's a lot more likely the dev was referring to using it for PvE because, as I mentioned earlier, boarding player ships is just a bad idea. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I think it's a lot more likely the dev was referring to using it for PvE because, as I mentioned earlier, boarding player ships is just a bad idea.
I've yet to see a valid reason why, other than the "speed of eve combat".
And I call BS on that front as well. Get a ship down to hull at a gate camp and introduce a new weapon type to disable its ability to fight back or move. Then you attempt to board it.
Now you effectively have given pirates a way of hijacking lone ships. I doubt they would complain, and I don't see how thats a bad idea at all. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
96
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Basically, because that amounts to bad and boring game play, and is bad for New Eden's economy. Here's a statement I made in another thread on this topic (holy crap does this ever come up a lot) that mostly still applies. The first point was unique to that thread, but b) and c) should help.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Alright,
a) Learn to spell. Holy crap, that was tough to read. You know modern browsers will offer suggestions on your typos, right? You don't lose points for using that.
b) From an economic perspective, this would be bad news bears. New Eden's economy works because things get destroyed. There are already serious inflation problems because PvEers aren't losing ships. If PvP becomes profitable, the economy fails.
c) There are three ways to defend a ship. One is by having a team of mercs standing by ready to jump in and defend if you get boarded. That's not likely to happen, because it involves 16 people sitting at their console for a couple hours for the off-chance they might get to fight. The second is by having it be a pub battle option. Now we have an organized team going up against pubbies. The attackers will win approximately 100% of the time. The third option is PvE. No matter how you arrange it, people will have figured out the defense system within a few months, and then the attackers will win approximately 100% of the time.
|
Mhizrak
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:I think it's a lot more likely the dev was referring to using it for PvE because, as I mentioned earlier, boarding player ships is just a bad idea. I've yet to see a valid reason why, other than the "speed of eve combat". And I call BS on that front as well. Get a ship down to hull at a gate camp and introduce a new weapon type to disable its ability to fight back or move. Then you attempt to board it. Now you effectively have given pirates a way of hijacking lone ships. I doubt they would complain, and I don't see how thats a bad idea at all.
Here's a few reasons. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Basically, because that amounts to bad and boring game play, and is bad for New Eden's economy. Here's a statement I made in another thread on this topic (holy crap does this ever come up a lot) that mostly still applies. The first point was unique to that thread, but b) and c) should help. Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Alright,
a) Learn to spell. Holy crap, that was tough to read. You know modern browsers will offer suggestions on your typos, right? You don't lose points for using that.
b) From an economic perspective, this would be bad news bears. New Eden's economy works because things get destroyed. There are already serious inflation problems because PvEers aren't losing ships. If PvP becomes profitable, the economy fails.
c) There are three ways to defend a ship. One is by having a team of mercs standing by ready to jump in and defend if you get boarded. That's not likely to happen, because it involves 16 people sitting at their console for a couple hours for the off-chance they might get to fight. The second is by having it be a pub battle option. Now we have an organized team going up against pubbies. The attackers will win approximately 100% of the time. The third option is PvE. No matter how you arrange it, people will have figured out the defense system within a few months, and then the attackers will win approximately 100% of the time.
There is inflation because the game has almost no isk sink aside from skill books, and tons of isk faucets. Destroying a player's property does not destroy the isk as it belongs to another player already, therefore it does not destroy the problem. If anything it adds to the problem thanks to insurance creating even more isk from out of nowhere. The economy started becoming messed up when incursions began payout out ridiculous sums of money.
Actually, involving mercs with low attention spans is a good way of helping the economy, if anything. Tons of those guys will take the isk and fall off the end of the universe. They might as well be an isk sink.
onto C....
You were onto something with pub battles, and you are right that your example would be horrible gameplay. But what exactly is stopping this kind of thing from being a time sensitive contract that pops up that a defending corporations can grab?
Admiral neckbeard is looking through FW contracts or whatever and all engagements are like 30 minutes off. His dust buddies have to wait to do anything, and they are bored already. Suddenly one pops up that starts in roughly a minute and a half. Naturally this means an immediate engagement, so everyone tries to grab it. If by chance no one does, then the defending team goes to pubbies. bad luck.
And there you have organized force versus organized force.
That said, it is unlikely that the boarded pilot will survive the encounter either way. He may very well opt to manually self destruct the ship to deny the hijackers their prize, and the scenario is for one team to assassinate the capsuleer and take the bridge while the other team tries to hold them off until the ship detonates.
Who knows? There are ways to make it work. |
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Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
As an alternate idea to fighting ON an EVE ship, how about fighting WITH an EVE ship? Meaning that an EVE capsuleer could hire on a group of Mercs to, say, man some of the turrets on his ship. We already have the skill tree set up for turrets (increasing damage, range, etc.), so it would be like the EVE player paid to have a temporary upgrade to his ship armaments. I think might be kinda cool to fly around New Eden like that. Sure you could just take the short cut and transfer your conciousness to a new clone on whatever planet your trying reach (or however it is that CCP is gonna do travel in Dust), but this way you can earn some extra ISK along the way, and maybe blow something up, too.
I don't think it would be too graphics intensive, or hard the server (considering there's only one, and both games use it), but I'm not a programmer at all so I could be wrong.
But it would give another cool, and useful, interaction between EVE players and Dust players. I know some people might find that boring, but others might find the idea appealing.
Of course, the Dusters would have to have a UVT in order to talk to the EVE pilot, but hey, it's a small price anyway.
Like I said, it's an alternate idea that doesn't involve ganking the EVE pilot's ship, but does promote interaction/communication between the two games. |
Jason Punk
DUST University Ivy League
71
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:If you're talking about player ships it's not so much "Soon(tm)" as it is "that's a dumb idea, and it's never going to happen." That said, if you're talking about PvE applications, or sovereignty (station and POS control) then yeah, that's pretty awesome and I bet it's coming. To narcissisticaly quote one of my own previous posts. Quote:I want you guys to picture something with me. A team of capsuleers take an activation gate into a plex or high level mission. There, behold, is the enemy command ship. It activates specialized hardening systems, similar to those on a POS, preventing the capsuleers from damaging it. While most deal with the smaller ships defending the command ship, one activates a specialized electronic warfare module which hacks clone modules on the ship, allowing friendly mercs to activate their own clones on board. As the mercs advance against the defending bots (be they drones, sansha, or whatever) they capture an objective, disabling the hardener. They then attempt to hold that position while the capsuleers, still dealing with the command ship's minions, take advantage of this moment of vulnerability to break through the command ship's shields. Finally, the command ship begins taking armor damage. Oh no, it has a second hardening system for its armor! The mercs advance again, traversing everything from cramped hallways, to barracks, to massive open hangars containing deployable drones and packaged ships, to reach and hack the second hardener. They hack it, and again must hold it until the capsuleers can destroy the ship's armor. As the command ship begins taking hull damage its commanders accept defeat and decide to take the boarders down with them. A self destruct sequence has been activated. Our mercs are faced with a choice: head back where they started and hope to escape before the ship goes up? Or move for the CIC, defeat the commanders and their elite guards, and hack the ship's computers to stop the self destruct, thus allowing better loot and salvage, and perhaps a WP/SP bonus to all involved.
Dude, throw this up on the PvE thread. (trying to consolidate these ideas ^^) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=49714
And I might consider the ability for both PvE and PvP to exist at the same time. Or at least for the ability of turning PvE into a sudden ambush or escalation with potential PvP...something I've never seen in another game other than standard griefing in MMO's |
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