DUST Search - [Feedback] Why Skirmish is Bad (objective spawning)

Zero Harpuia wrote:

+1. I'm a Logi with a Laser Rifle, so I can't follow my squad to a point to assist with the hack (a Logi specialty) or heal (another Logi specialty) because a heavy may spawn out of thin air five feet from me and instagib me because random BS. In Planetside, the objectives are a decent distance from the spawns. In MAG, the objectives are a decent distance from the bunkers. In CoD, the points are not where you spawn into, if there are any points at all. There is a reason for this, as many people before me have pointed out. Anyone with long range weapons or a lower HP suit gets screwed royally for attempting to hack an objective because some random dood will spawn in and just slap you off the point. the CRUs we have are a bit too close to the points IMO, but if we solely spawned to them instead of the points themselves, then the game would be just that much better.

And on the subject of spawning, make a Drop Uplink a bit more noticeable, being able to spawn in ~8 people to an almost invisible point (completely invisible if the damn thing decides to not be rendered) is a tad broken. If they did the Planetside thing where there is a hugeass flare where the drop-in points are placed, then maybe that'd balance it out...


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Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.02.13 20:51:00 - [1] - Quote As many times as I've heard this discussed over and over and over again as a huge flaw by so many different players in game that I've lost count, I only just realized I've never seen anything about it posted here in the feedback section. So here you go. The Reason Skirmish is Bad: Spawning on Objectives This seemingly harmless mechanic removes 90% of all tactical play from the game. If the enemies attack you at one objective in a big rush, it does no good to counter attack their objective with some of your forces, because you know that the enemies who die in the rush will simply spawn back at the objective you are counter attacking by the time you get there. It leaves us with a game mode where the entire strategy is to simply blob rush from objective to objective, and respawn at contested objectives. The large majority of all deaths my squad sees when attacking an objective come from guys magically appearing and gunning you down while hacking. It's completely ludicrous. Make the game more strategic, remove the objective spawning and add more CRUs. EDIT: here's a slightly different way of stating the problem that I wrote in another thread (the one that made me realize this needed to be posted here): Baal Roo wrote: Right now, the best strategy in skirmish is ALWAYS to RUSH RUSH RUSH RUSH, because the faster you die the faster you respawn to your objectives and can take care of any enemy attackers. It's why we see so many redline matches. All of the experienced players understand this mechanic and take advantage of it to redline one side or the other within the first 45 seconds of most matches, and why the remaining matches end on clones before the MCCs get to half armor. Both teams rush each other, attacking with a blob at the enemy held objectives and defending their own with respawns, and the first team to win the initial fights at the objectives wins the match 90% of the time. It's dull, cheap, and repetitive.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.02.13 21:31:00 - [2] - Quote Jack Sharkey42 wrote: LOL This is the flip side of the complaint , "People just spawn camp!" You got bullets in my spawn point You got spawn in my bullet points I understand why you would see the two as related, but they really are very different problems. People do spawn camp, but that's a problem of one team playing strategically and the other team playing poorly. Spawn camp someone in my squad once, shame on you. Spawn camp someone in my squad twice, shame on us. This problem, OTOH, has to do with a mechanic that REMOVES strategic play and the need for communication. There is no need to coordinate, and no need to think ahead. Just rush and spawn, rush and spawn, and you win. The team that loses is almost always the team that tries to use a "strategy" and "defend and hold" objectives, because the game mechanics puts any strategy other than FULL ON ATTACK at a huge disadvantage.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.02.16 12:42:00 - [3] - Quote ImperfectFan514 wrote: The ability to spawn in on an objective has absolutely nothing to do with skirmish being bad. People that spawn in on points as they are being hacked in most cases are a free kill. If you are getting killed, while your hacking and OBJ your obviously doing it wrong, or your buddy covering your back is a terrible shot. I don't think it's fair to say "you're doing it wrong" here. I can't count how many times my squad has rolled up on an undefended objective, only to have 3 or 4 heavies/shotgun scouts spawn right on top of us, or how many times I've done the same to someone else. And just forget "stealth" hacking with a single sneaky scout, that's just asking to get ganked by a lucky raspberry who just happens to be spawning in at the right time. The whole mechanic of it just makes playing defense almost entirely unnecessary.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.02.16 23:01:00 - [4] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: +1. I'm a Logi with a Laser Rifle, so I can't follow my squad to a point to assist with the hack (a Logi specialty) or heal (another Logi specialty) because a heavy may spawn out of thin air five feet from me and instagib me because random BS. In Planetside, the objectives are a decent distance from the spawns. In MAG, the objectives are a decent distance from the bunkers. In CoD, the points are not where you spawn into, if there are any points at all. There is a reason for this, as many people before me have pointed out. Anyone with long range weapons or a lower HP suit gets screwed royally for attempting to hack an objective because some random dood will spawn in and just slap you off the point. the CRUs we have are a bit too close to the points IMO, but if we solely spawned to them instead of the points themselves, then the game would be just that much better. And on the subject of spawning, make a Drop Uplink a bit more noticeable, being able to spawn in ~8 people to an almost invisible point (completely invisible if the damn thing decides to not be rendered) is a tad broken. If they did the Planetside thing where there is a hugeass flare where the drop-in points are placed, then maybe that'd balance it out... I like everything you said here, except the bit about making uplinks more noticeable. I agree that the graphical glitch where deployed equipment often can't be seen is annoying, but assuming they fix that, I like the visibility uplinks currently have. They audibly hum, and glow enough that they can be seen from a fair distance. I like having to search a bit in the direction the enemies are streaming in from. And the clever play that is encouraged by being able to sneak behind enemy lines and drop a good upllink for your squad.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.02.22 23:52:00 - [5] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: xXl DeathDealer lXx wrote: I think that a good fix to this is to remove having to manually hack something. Make it so that you automatically hack when within a few yards of an objective when no enemies are there. This would solve everyone's problems. You can stay alert so you don't get spawned on and mowed down and protect yourself from objective campers especially snipers. Everyone wins. I don't like the idea of autohack, I like the risk being involved with hacking Agreed. Actually hacking the objective means you need to either have a squad with you, or put your own ass on the line... which is a fun premise for hacking. The issue is with being able to spawn DIRECTLY onto the objectives that are supposed to be the basis of the tactical play, not with how the hacking itself works. Spawning directly onto objectives is like playing chess with all queens.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 848	Posted - 2013.03.03 21:25:00 - [6] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Even if CRUs are destructible, eventually commanders will have to the power to deploy more on the battlefield. This idea involves adding more CRUs to the battlefield, destroying all CRUs in their current quantity is hard enough, with even more CRUs it would be close to impossible. To prevent MCC spawn camping, THE MCCs SHOULD ROTATE AROUND THE MAP. This means the drop zone will always be different, and make the battle more dynamic s a result. alternatively, there could be two different types of CRUs. The current ones that are destructible installations that will eventually be called in as assets, and a different sort that work like the objective (indestructible and pre-placed on the maps). In my own personal vision, each objective would have an accompanying "built in" CRU that was NEAR the objective, but not directly on top of it. Some maps currently have this already for some objectives. Yes, it seems like a minor change, but the strategic implications would add quite a bit to the game, making the choice of "do we hack the objective or the CRU first" (and defenders would have to make similar choices) much more important.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 985	Posted - 2013.03.24 18:48:00 - [7] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Wow, what a mishmash of ideas all because of hating on the Skirmish. It makes me wonder how many of you mostly run Ambush? I run with a few mates in various Squads and depending on several things we can control a map without Blob Rushing. Have a plan, have some contingency plans and be able to adapt. It is better if we could always get in the start of a game but we have pulled wins from lost causes more than once. This seems like yet another idea to make DUST into something it isn't and/or to control how the Blues play the game. They are Not in your Squad. They are going to play the way They Want. Some will do well, others will not come close. Same as you Mercs. The Blob Rushing was mentioned in a recent YouTube video about how DUST battles work. It was cute but it is not science and is an isolated incident being used to misstate how all games in Skirmish play out. I find it will do that Sometimes but more often than not it is not the default case. The only constant is that different Squads and Random Blues will all have different skill sets and play styles. Skirmish is fine. Use your Squad. Use mics. It takes all kinds of Mercs to fill up the DUST. I've played plenty of skirmish, anymore almost no one worth a **** plays it though. Lately it's pretty difficult to lose a skirmish round with a squad, mostly because of the problem being discussed in this thread. Most people who have been playing long enough to get good at the game see skirmish for the broken game mode that it is. It has nothing to do with how others are playing the game mode, we're discussing the flaw in the game mode that removes 90% of the possible strategy. Skirmish is currently just Ambush that moves from objective to objective because of this goofy spawning system.