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Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
If boarding was implemented now, wouldn't that be the dust equivalent of orbital strikes? I see it this way because as of now, in both instances they affect someone who can't directly fight back, have some form of counter(killing the squad earning the most war points and shooting down whatever ship is bringing the mercs) and last but not least having an orbital called on you/ being borded would result in loss of the ship and/or dearg. I know anti eve ship weapons will come someday, but as of now boarding would be the perfect orbital strike counter.
Any thoughts?
Tl;dr CCP should implement whatever weapon that's purpose is to take down eve ships trying to do orbitals
Edit: boarding has and will always be a heated topic that I disagree with and am not promoting in this thread, but recognize the imbalance in how bombarding works now. |
Denak Kalamari
CrimeWave Syndicate
80
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
No.
Because the pod people can press a button, which leads into the self-destruction of the ship in an instant. There's no point in boarding ships as they are expendable just like dropsuits, and can be easily destroyed by it's user. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
244
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Earn your own orbital strikes, that's how you counter them. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1592
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Not gonna happen. Eve players have been strongly vocal against this idea of having their own ships being boarded. Now, if you're talking about boarding NPC-controlled ships like the enemy's warbarge, we can keep talking. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:No.
Because the pod people can press a button, which leads into the self-destruction of the ship in an instant. There's no point in boarding ships as they are expendable just like dropsuits, and can be easily destroyed by it's user. Either way, the objective is accomplished and the ship is destroyed |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Not gonna happen. Eve players have been strongly vocal against this idea of having their own ships being boarded. Now, if you're talking about boarding NPC-controlled ships like the enemy's warbarge, we can keep talking. My point is that whatever is meant to counter eve players bombarding us should be implemented sooner than later. |
Denak Kalamari
CrimeWave Syndicate
80
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote: Either way, the objective is accomplished and the ship is destroyed
Maken Tosch wrote:Not gonna happen. Eve players have been strongly vocal against this idea of having their own ships being boarded. Now, if you're talking about boarding NPC-controlled ships like the enemy's warbarge, we can keep talking.
This too ^
The point is if you are going to board an Eve ship that can be destroyed just from the press of a button, why waste resources and time on actually reaching the ship when other pod people can just shoot it? |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote: Either way, the objective is accomplished and the ship is destroyed
Maken Tosch wrote:Not gonna happen. Eve players have been strongly vocal against this idea of having their own ships being boarded. Now, if you're talking about boarding NPC-controlled ships like the enemy's warbarge, we can keep talking. This too ^ The point is if you are going to board an Eve ship that can be destroyed just from the press of a button, why waste resources and time on actually reaching the ship when other pod people can just shoot it? Isn't that in essence similar to having orbital strikes when ground troops could just shoot each other? And i don't mean a long drawn out match in which players fight aboard the enemy ship, I just want for said ship to be taken over and destroyed in a similar fashion OBs are done, quick and efficient. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1592
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
It doesn't matter what you think at this point. Eve players just don't want it and will vote in members for the next CSM elections that make sure CCP doesn't implement that idea of yours. Besides, boarding player-run ships will simply take away the whole point of fighting for control of a skyfire battery installation which is what is needed to deal the blow to Eve ships anyways. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 05:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:It doesn't matter what you think at this point. Eve players just don't want it and will vote in members for the next CSM elections that make sure CCP doesn't implement that idea of yours. Besides, boarding player-run ships will simply take away the whole point of fighting for control of a skyfire battery installation which is what is needed to deal the blow to Eve ships anyways. My main point is that like boarding would be, orbitals are done currently without repercussions coming directly from the dust players they're shooting at, that's why I think skyfire batteries should be added soon. |
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1592
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 06:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It doesn't matter what you think at this point. Eve players just don't want it and will vote in members for the next CSM elections that make sure CCP doesn't implement that idea of yours. Besides, boarding player-run ships will simply take away the whole point of fighting for control of a skyfire battery installation which is what is needed to deal the blow to Eve ships anyways. My main point is that like boarding would be, orbitals are done currently without repercussions coming directly from the dust players they're shooting at, that's why I think skyfire batteries should be added soon.
In that case, you have to wait. The skyfire battery will come but CCP has bigger issues to deal with first like balancing the market, setting up drone missions, corporate management, map variety, game stability, graphics updates, weapon/vehicle/suit balancing, etc. etc. etc...
Also, CCP has a long history of doing things slowly and carefully because this game will have a MAJOR effect on the delicate economy of Eve Online which is their pride and joy. If they rush anything, they risk ruining everything. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 12:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It doesn't matter what you think at this point. Eve players just don't want it and will vote in members for the next CSM elections that make sure CCP doesn't implement that idea of yours. Besides, boarding player-run ships will simply take away the whole point of fighting for control of a skyfire battery installation which is what is needed to deal the blow to Eve ships anyways. My main point is that like boarding would be, orbitals are done currently without repercussions coming directly from the dust players they're shooting at, that's why I think skyfire batteries should be added soon. In that case, you have to wait. The skyfire battery will come but CCP has bigger issues to deal with first like balancing the market, setting up drone missions, corporate management, map variety, game stability, graphics updates, weapon/vehicle/suit balancing, etc. etc. etc... Also, CCP has a long history of doing things slowly and carefully because this game will have a MAJOR effect on the delicate economy of Eve Online which is their pride and joy. If they rush anything, they risk ruining everything. I just feel that ccp should implement skyfire batteries either at release or sometime soon after, because it currently requires corps to have more eve support to take down orbital bombardiers. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 12:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Did you even read?Sloth9230 wrote:Earn your own orbital strikes, that's how you counter them.
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boba's fetta
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc. Gathering Of Nomadic Explorers
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 12:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
having dusties running around peoples 2 bill and up dreads no thanks. war barges are one thing but why bother boarding frigates and dessies the ships currently used most for bombardments. both would have very restrictive maps. and wouldnt be worth the losse of the suits required.
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Carr Rouppon
Air Red Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 12:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It doesn't matter what you think at this point. Eve players just don't want it and will vote in members for the next CSM elections that make sure CCP doesn't implement that idea of yours. Besides, boarding player-run ships will simply take away the whole point of fighting for control of a skyfire battery installation which is what is needed to deal the blow to Eve ships anyways. My main point is that like boarding would be, orbitals are done currently without repercussions coming directly from the dust players they're shooting at, that's why I think skyfire batteries should be added soon. In that case, you have to wait. The skyfire battery will come but CCP has bigger issues to deal with first like balancing the market, setting up drone missions, corporate management, map variety, game stability, graphics updates, weapon/vehicle/suit balancing, etc. etc. etc... Also, CCP has a long history of doing things slowly and carefully because this game will have a MAJOR effect on the delicate economy of Eve Online which is their pride and joy. If they rush anything, they risk ruining everything.
Good lord, an intelligent TEST poster, what is going on?!
Also, you're bang on the money. CCP rush nothing for the reasons you stated. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
boba's fetta wrote:having dusties running around peoples 2 bill and up dreads no thanks. war barges are one thing but why bother boarding frigates and dessies the ships currently used most for bombardments. both would have very restrictive maps. and wouldnt be worth the losse of the suits required.
If boarding was implemented it would most likely be BC and up but that's not the point, in the op I'm comparing boarding to orbitals now, which currently require corps to have eve support to take out the opposing corps support, like when people against boarding state that it makes them too dependant on dust players. |
EternalRMG
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
there is goign to be ground-space cannons to counter attack eve ships |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
EternalRMG wrote:there is goign to be ground-space cannons to counter attack eve ships That is confirmed but I think it's something they should have at or soon after launch |
Midas Man ll
Talon Strike Force LTD Sleepless Knights Alliance
38
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
There is already lots of counters to spaceships in eve. Most notably Spaceships in Eve. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Midas Man ll wrote:There is already lots of counters to spaceships in eve. Most notably Spaceships in Eve. That's thw point, it requires us to have eve support to take out more eve support like it would take dust support to stop boarding. |
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1592
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:boba's fetta wrote:having dusties running around peoples 2 bill and up dreads no thanks. war barges are one thing but why bother boarding frigates and dessies the ships currently used most for bombardments. both would have very restrictive maps. and wouldnt be worth the losse of the suits required.
If boarding was implemented it would most likely be BC and up but that's not the point, in the op I'm comparing boarding to orbitals now, which currently require corps to have eve support to take out the opposing corps support, like when people against boarding state that it makes them too dependant on dust players.
I understand your desire to have boarding, but it's a pointless affair because Eve Online players will simply self-destruct their own ships rather than let it fall in the hands of their own enemy. Once the self-destruct is enabled, those mercs will only have two minutes to do their job and that's it before they lose their clones that cost their corp ISK to produce (looking into the future here) and transport. Which brings me to my next point.
Player-run corps just won't see any financial gains from it and therefore will not do it. After all, most corps are technically operating like a real-world business that takes into account opportunity costs before making a decision. If you want to take a battlecruiser down with mercs instead of a skyfire battery, you will have to take it up to your CEO about that to see if he even allows it. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 13:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:boba's fetta wrote:having dusties running around peoples 2 bill and up dreads no thanks. war barges are one thing but why bother boarding frigates and dessies the ships currently used most for bombardments. both would have very restrictive maps. and wouldnt be worth the losse of the suits required.
If boarding was implemented it would most likely be BC and up but that's not the point, in the op I'm comparing boarding to orbitals now, which currently require corps to have eve support to take out the opposing corps support, like when people against boarding state that it makes them too dependant on dust players. I understand your desire to have boarding, but it's a pointless affair because Eve Online players will simply self-destruct their own ships rather than let it fall in the hands of their own enemy. Once the self-destruct is enabled, those mercs will only have two minutes to do their job and that's it before they lose their clones that cost their corp ISK to produce (looking into the future here) and transport. Which brings me to my next point. Player-run corps just won't see any financial gains from it and therefore will not do it. After all, most corps are technically operating like a real-world business that takes into account opportunity costs before making a decision. If you want to take a battlecruiser down with mercs instead of a skyfire battery, you will have to take it up to your CEO about that to see if he even allows it.
Commencing the ship to self destruct or destroying it by some other means seems like the main point of boarding despite what little isk will be lost once the ship is destroyed. Even with full proto loadouts most suits won't top over 700k isk to field which takes literally seconds of ratting to make back. Besides that I should've made it clearer in the op that I'm impartial to boarding having played eve since august and dust months before. I just used it as an example to express the codependance that is required currently tp remove enemy support. |
SMiTTYCO
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
28
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 14:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:boba's fetta wrote:having dusties running around peoples 2 bill and up dreads no thanks. war barges are one thing but why bother boarding frigates and dessies the ships currently used most for bombardments. both would have very restrictive maps. and wouldnt be worth the losse of the suits required.
If boarding was implemented it would most likely be BC and up but that's not the point, in the op I'm comparing boarding to orbitals now, which currently require corps to have eve support to take out the opposing corps support, like when people against boarding state that it makes them too dependant on dust players. I understand your desire to have boarding, but it's a pointless affair because Eve Online players will simply self-destruct their own ships rather than let it fall in the hands of their own enemy. Once the self-destruct is enabled, those mercs will only have two minutes to do their job and that's it before they lose their clones that cost their corp ISK to produce (looking into the future here) and transport. Which brings me to my next point. Player-run corps just won't see any financial gains from it and therefore will not do it. After all, most corps are technically operating like a real-world business that takes into account opportunity costs before making a decision. If you want to take a battlecruiser down with mercs instead of a skyfire battery, you will have to take it up to your CEO about that to see if he even allows it. Commencing the ship to self destruct or destroying it by some other means seems like the main point of boarding despite what little isk will be lost once the ship is destroyed. Even with full proto loadouts most suits won't top over 700k isk to field which takes literally seconds of ratting to make back. Besides that I should've made it clearer in the op that I'm impartial to boarding having played eve since august and dust months before. I just used it as an example to express the codependance that is required currently tp remove enemy support. I hate to break it to all of you eve players that would like to be able to hit dust players but dust players not being able to hit you, they have already said boarding is something that will be added, most likely not this year but a year and a half to 3 years away. Here you go: http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/22/dust-514-orbital-strike/ I can't wait maybe eve players will stop acting superior when a squad either steals there ship or makes them self destruct. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 14:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
SMiTTYCO wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:boba's fetta wrote:having dusties running around peoples 2 bill and up dreads no thanks. war barges are one thing but why bother boarding frigates and dessies the ships currently used most for bombardments. both would have very restrictive maps. and wouldnt be worth the losse of the suits required.
If boarding was implemented it would most likely be BC and up but that's not the point, in the op I'm comparing boarding to orbitals now, which currently require corps to have eve support to take out the opposing corps support, like when people against boarding state that it makes them too dependant on dust players. I understand your desire to have boarding, but it's a pointless affair because Eve Online players will simply self-destruct their own ships rather than let it fall in the hands of their own enemy. Once the self-destruct is enabled, those mercs will only have two minutes to do their job and that's it before they lose their clones that cost their corp ISK to produce (looking into the future here) and transport. Which brings me to my next point. Player-run corps just won't see any financial gains from it and therefore will not do it. After all, most corps are technically operating like a real-world business that takes into account opportunity costs before making a decision. If you want to take a battlecruiser down with mercs instead of a skyfire battery, you will have to take it up to your CEO about that to see if he even allows it. Commencing the ship to self destruct or destroying it by some other means seems like the main point of boarding despite what little isk will be lost once the ship is destroyed. Even with full proto loadouts most suits won't top over 700k isk to field which takes literally seconds of ratting to make back. Besides that I should've made it clearer in the op that I'm impartial to boarding having played eve since august and dust months before. I just used it as an example to express the codependance that is required currently tp remove enemy support. I hate to break it to all of you eve players that would like to be able to hit dust players but dust players not being able to hit you, they have already said boarding is something that will be added, most likely not this year but a year and a half to 3 years away. Here you go: http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/22/dust-514-orbital-strike/ I can't wait maybe eve players will stop acting superior when a squad either steals there ship or makes them self destruct. no idea if I should be happy for my dust character or scared for my tengu. |
SMiTTYCO
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
28
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 14:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Commencing the ship to self destruct or destroying it by some other means seems like the main point of boarding despite what little isk will be lost once the ship is destroyed. Even with full proto loadouts most suits won't top over 700k isk to field which takes literally seconds of ratting to make back. Besides that I should've made it clearer in the op that I'm impartial to boarding having played eve since august and dust months before. I just used it as an example to express the codependance that is required currently tp remove enemy support.[/quote] I hate to break it to all of you eve players that would like to be able to hit dust players but dust players not being able to hit you, they have already said boarding is something that will be added, most likely not this year but a year and a half to 3 years away. Here you go: http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/22/dust-514-orbital-strike/ I can't wait maybe eve players will stop acting superior when a squad either steals there ship or makes them self destruct.[/quote] no idea if I should be happy for my dust character or scared for my tengu.[/quote] You still have a while before it will be implemented but they will also need the support of another eve player to fire the drill type weapon at you.EDIT: Not too sure why the quotes didn't work |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1592
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:
Commencing the ship to self destruct or destroying it by some other means seems like the main point of boarding despite what little isk will be lost once the ship is destroyed. Even with full proto loadouts most suits won't top over 700k isk to field which takes literally seconds of ratting to make back. Besides that I should've made it clearer in the op that I'm impartial to boarding having played eve since august and dust months before. I just used it as an example to express the codependance that is required currently tp remove enemy support.
There is one minor problem to your comment. You are assuming that in the future the cost of dropsuits will remain the same as they are now. I estimate that once the players have full control of the Dust market (assuming Eve players won't try to corner the market) will be around 10,000,000 ISK per suit fitting for proto suits.
No, that's not a typo. That's ten million with a one followed by seven zeroes. This is not accounting for the fluctuating cost of clones bodies, vehicles, installations, etc.
Tell me, will it worth it for me to sacrifice a 10,000,000 ISK suit for a ship that will suicide itself? And whose to say that the ship we board won't be accompanied by mercs wielding equally powerful gear if we stick with just militia stuff?
My point here is that everything will get expensive once we have control of the market as players and once player-made corp contracts become more lucrative.
EDIT:
PS: I can imagine the various choke points the defending mercs on board a capsuleer-run ship can setup with all the corridors as stuff. Once the enemy comes in, you just have to place a single HMG-wielding heavy suit on one end of the hall way and cut down the single-file enemy like grass. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1592
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
SMiTTYCO wrote:I hate to break it to all of you eve players that would like to be able to hit dust players but dust players not being able to hit you, they have already said boarding is something that will be added, most likely not this year but a year and a half to 3 years away. Here you go: http://venturebeat.com/2013/01/22/dust-514-orbital-strike/ I can't wait maybe eve players will stop acting superior when a squad either steals there ship or makes them self destruct.
Yikes. |
Crimson Moon V
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
184
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 15:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
I can't wait to grief a few eve players. There will be a river of tears. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 16:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:
Commencing the ship to self destruct or destroying it by some other means seems like the main point of boarding despite what little isk will be lost once the ship is destroyed. Even with full proto loadouts most suits won't top over 700k isk to field which takes literally seconds of ratting to make back. Besides that I should've made it clearer in the op that I'm impartial to boarding having played eve since august and dust months before. I just used it as an example to express the codependance that is required currently tp remove enemy support.
There is one minor problem to your comment. You are assuming that in the future the cost of dropsuits will remain the same as they are now. I estimate that once the players have full control of the Dust market (assuming Eve players won't try to corner the market) will be around 10,000,000 ISK per suit fitting for proto suits. No, that's not a typo. That's ten million with a one followed by seven zeroes. This is not accounting for the fluctuating cost of clones bodies, vehicles, installations, etc. Tell me, will it worth it for me to sacrifice a 10,000,000 ISK suit for a ship that will suicide itself? And whose to say that the ship we board won't be accompanied by mercs wielding equally powerful gear if we stick with just militia stuff? My point here is that everything will get expensive once we have control of the market as players and once player-made corp contracts become more lucrative. EDIT: PS: I can imagine the various choke points the defending mercs on board a capsuleer-run ship can setup with all the corridors as stuff. Once the enemy comes in, you just have to place a single HMG-wielding heavy suit on one end of the hall way and cut down the single-file enemy like grass.
Neither of us can predict the future prices without knowing the mats needed |
BursegSardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 16:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'm a firm proponent for changing OS's away from WP's in favor of a cooldown timer to balance out the OS's. That way you can have friends in orbit to OS for you, even if you are doing terribly. That way it really is advantageous to know people in the EVE universe, and makes their arrival in orbit something to fear for the enemy, no matter how well they are doing.
The precision strikes should remain functioning the way they are currently, so a match can have OS's creaming a team that is doing well, but the warbarge strikes are still being earned by that team. |
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