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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
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Posted - 2013.02.10 06:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Players who start in 2014 will permanently be a full year behind players who started during the beta in terms of SP with no chance of ever catching up, forever to be inferior to the vets. Is this fair? |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
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Posted - 2013.02.10 07:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
The solution is to reduce the skillbook bonuses. 25% extra damage...25%+ extra health...these numbers are ridiculous. On top of the equipment bonuses newbies can't even touch you.
This is bad for both the new players and the vets. There's no way newbies are going to put up with players running around with a 50% health+damage advantage repeatedly destroying them and the vets will have zero challenge in public lobbies due to how easy picking on the newbies will be due to the artificial skill gap and the game will quickly become boring and not worth playing.
I already see it now. The pub stomping is getting worse and worse everyday. I'm nearing the point where I can effortlessly kill new HMG users in a CQC 1 on 1 with my eyes closed. Everyone else is absolutely helpless, even when I'm outnumbered.
Games are not fun when you're not presented with a challenge.
The SP cap does not help with this at all. The reasoning behind implementing it was completely flawed. We're already seeing the skill gap and it's going to get bigger and bigger as the game progresses. The only thing the SP cap does is make it impossible for newbies to catch up...
Get rid of it. Work on reducing the artificial skill gap. |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 07:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maxonouis Stryker wrote:YOUR NAME HERE
Do you realize how stupid your idea is? If CCP was to remove the cap the game would be unbearable for new players. Of course you wouldn't care since your with Imperfects. This is why we have a SP cap, or people like you would tank on others players. We have the SP cap for a reason, so people can all have an equal chance at catching up with the big league players. If you haven't realized how this would effect the community in Dust yet, well here's your "Special Stupid" sign.
You think the skill cap is keeping the game bearable for new players? You think it gives people a chance to catch up with the big league players?
Seriously though, it doesn't. |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 08:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maxonouis Stryker wrote: Give me a LEGITIMATE reason why it wouldn't help. If we didn't have a SP cap it would be a lot worse for new players. Eventually Dust would lose players due to everyone in max gear. Not to mention squads of cocky corps like you guys running their mouths about how to benefit themselves.
Well first you should know you can buy all the important skills that effect your survivability and offensive capabilities with like 3-4 mill SP. At that point you can be pretty competitive with the vets and after that point you can really only just expand the amount of roles and equipment you can choose from, which doesn't really contribute to the skill gap too much.
Imagine it's 6 months in the future and the SP system was never changed. We'll say an assault player can be reasonably competitive after about 3 mill SP. A new player is interested in playing this game and starts grinding SP. If he maxes out his SP everyday it will take him 2 months of hell to reach this level. It's more than likely he lose interest in this game before that.
Without the skill cap, he could no life for a couple weeks and already be at that competitive level. He wouldn't have to spend so long getting crapped on by vets. He would also have more incentive to play as the game wouldn't stop rewarding him after less than 2 hours of playtime.
And anyways we should be avoiding the whole "getting crapped on by vets" part altogether by reducing the artificial skill gap. |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 08:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maxonouis Stryker wrote:Moejoe Omnipotent wrote:Maxonouis Stryker wrote: Give me a LEGITIMATE reason why it wouldn't help. If we didn't have a SP cap it would be a lot worse for new players. Eventually Dust would lose players due to everyone in max gear. Not to mention squads of cocky corps like you guys running their mouths about how to benefit themselves. Well first you should know you can buy all the important skills that effect your survivability and offensive capabilities with like 3-4 mill SP. At that point you can be pretty competitive with the vets and after that point you can really only just expand the amount of roles and equipment you can choose from, which doesn't really contribute to the skill gap too much. Imagine it's 6 months in the future and the SP system was never changed. We'll say an assault player can be reasonably competitive after about 3 mill SP. A new player is interested in playing this game and starts grinding SP. If he maxes out his SP everyday it will take him 2 months of hell to reach this level. It's more than likely he lose interest in this game before that. Without the skill cap, he could no life for a couple weeks and already be at that competitive level. He wouldn't have to spend so long getting crapped on by vets. He would also have more incentive to play as the game wouldn't stop rewarding him after less than 2 hours of playtime. And anyways we should be avoiding the whole "getting crapped on by vets" part altogether by reducing the artificial skill gap. Ok. So what about everyone else thats close to maxing out skills. CCP said it would take seven years, with boosters, to reach a max character. By doing this you are shorting that immensely. It takes away all challenge away, and we will be back at the starting point. Vets will still crap on new players. After so much people will quit and the Dust community will shrink.
I'm pretty sure CCP came up with that number before this SP cap. And anyways, CCP is doing something wrong if they're relying on the SP grind to "challenge" players and keep them hooked and not...you know...actual enjoyable and well-designed gameplay. |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 08:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ruyan Aldent wrote:So the person who posted this says that playing for a year longer than someone will give you an advantage. And yes it will. But this game is based off EVE and that's how EVE is so that's how Dust will be. Keep the Skill Cap or just make it so its not a weekly cap but a cap at a certain amount of SP. That way everyone can catch up to each other and stop all at the same point.
Example: Highest player we will say has 4 mill SP right now. The cap for this week is 4.2mill SP. So a player at 3mill can grind all week and get a normal level of SP and catch up to the guy already at 4 mill. The guy at 4 mill can grind his 200k sp and that'll be his cap until next week.
One game is a MMORPG and the other is a FPS. When you treat players in a FPS the same way you would treat spaceships in a RPG, things will go wrong. |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 09:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Samantha Spoor wrote:I've noticed when someone proposes an idea that isn't exactly what y'all want you ignore it. Why don't you get off your one track mind and actually be constructive for once. As I said i like your want to help fix the SP game but so far all I see is you wanting more SP and for the ones why grind away constantly at this game. Think about other before yourself.
I'm fine with removal of the skill cap if you have a plan to help back up the casual gamers. If having no life for a few weeks is you answer on how to help the new players by removing the skill cap, it becomes very clear you didn't think this out. That only helps hard core gamers.
What other balancing are you going to do with the removal of the sp cap?
Heh...you think I want more SP...I hate the SP system and artificial skill gap.
Everything I've suggested so far is intended to make the game more accessible for new players and make it more challenging for the veteran players.
You think a SP cap helps newbies catch up and keep veteran players in check. I think it does the complete opposite. As I've pointed out, SP stops scaling well with your survivability after around 3-4 mill SP. This is where you can have advanced armor, complex shield mods, complex damage mods, Duvolle assault rifles, etc. Every single vet will be past this 3-4 mill SP mark soon and a skill cap on them at that point will do nothing. It will however have a big effect on new players (mainly the new hardcore gamers) and keep them from reaching that competitive level for a long time. This is unnecessary.
As for hardcore vs. casual...hardcore players are supposed to progress faster than casual players. That's how pretty much every online shooter ever created works and there's no reason for Dust to be any different. I'm talking about veterans vs. newbies. Vets as in players who've had an account on this game for a while and have accumulated lots of SP through passive and active SP and newbies as in players who are new to the game. I believe newbies should be able to catch up to the vets more easily or that the skillbook system shouldn't create such a big skill gap between them.
Also Dust in its current state is not a RPG at all. It's a genre-confused arena shooter. |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 10:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Samantha Spoor wrote:If you haven't noticed i have agreed with you that the issue needs to addressed but besides removing the skill cap you haven't suggested anything else. I'm asking you for more ideas other then just removing the skill cap.
I'm not saying you want more SP but removal of the cap doesn't help the new people any. I also agreed removal of the sp till a certain sp point is also a good idea but it needs tweaking.
I'm not fighting to keep the sp cap, I'm trying to get the game balanced in the future like you are but nothing outside of grind sp for a bit with no cap is the only thing y'all have said.
List of ideas:
No sp cap for new players till X sp total
Limit matches but forcing skills down to lower levels
Limit meta level of gear used in a match
I want other ideas and tweaks, other views and possibilities on how it could work. We all want this game to work out so get off reading only want to see and start thinking of other ways. i didn't think of the no limit till X sp level but it's still a step in possibly the right direction.
Earlier I made a post about reducing skillbook bonuses in order to reduce the advantage vets have over other player. You could also tweak shield modules and damage mods. If removing the SP cap isn't an option then the focus should be on reducing the enormous advantage high level players have over new players. I'm not saying we should remove the advantage entirely, there should be some advantage to give the skillbook system purpose and give players incentive to go through the SP / ISK grind, but bonuses that give you a 2x+ health advantage (complex shield mods, armor mods, shield skillbooks) or 50%+ DPS advantage (weaponry 5, AR proficiency 5, complex damage mods) over new players are just way over-the-top. |
Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 10:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:I will agree with your argument, except for the fact, that i don't think SP caps makes a huge difference. I killed the other day a guy with one of that shiny "Prototype" dropsuits, with my tier 1 Burst riffle, very easily. Yes i was aiming to the head, Yes he didn't hit me ones with his gun, and Yes he didn't try to avoid my bullets. But the point is, that SP doesn't replace your skills in a shooter game ; - Your aim - Accuracy - Tactical awareness - Reflexes Is just an AID to help you maximize your already existing skills. 
As a player with both lots of SP and lots of FPS skill I assure you that SP does way more than just "help maximize" your already existing skill. If I were to face a new player who's on my skill level, I would be guaranteed to win that gunfight in almost every situation where I'm not outnumbered. The equipment/skillbook advantage I have is too great and he can't do anything about it. |
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