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![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.09 17:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Swarm launchers need an actual lock on time, not some ready lock fire in .75 seconds. If this is implemented it should be based on signature radius, so gallente lavs take the longest to lock on to and caldari Havs take the shortest to lock on to before adding shield extenders or any other signature radius raising module. So while gunloggis and sagarises are the easiest to lock on to they'll still take relatively little damage from swarm lauchers.
What exactly would be a good lock on time I can't say, but ranging from highest to lowest time taken should range from about 6 or 7 to 2 or 3 seconds, and obviously the higher tier swarms would have lower lock on times than the militia, so for instance:
Militia swarm launcher
7.5 seconds to lock on to a gallente lav without shield extenders and 3.5 to lock on to a caldari hav without shield extenders
From militia to prototype each tier will take .5 seconds less to lock on to the base vehicle and this way shield tanks get a more prominent penalty without nerfing them.
Edit: these numbers are just a shot in the dark, whether they should be lower or higher I have no idea.
Edit 2 : there velocity should also be increased to compensate for the lock on time |
![Zero Harpuia Zero Harpuia](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.02.09 20:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
The general idea is pretty solid, and it makes shields have an actual weakness. The times will probably need a smidgeon of adjusting, but the premise works well enough.
P.S. I know where Kuvakei and the moniker 'Fatal' come from in EVE lore, but you mind refreshing me on where Vermaak comes from? |
![Vermaak Doe Vermaak Doe](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_3_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2013.02.09 21:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
It doesn't come from Eve, I just noticed that some npcs from infamous 2 look like the standard dropsuit. |
![Django Quik Django Quik](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
220
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Posted - 2013.02.10 11:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm a dedicated SL user and currently like the balance but actually I think this is a really good idea. In fact this is probably the only good idea I've ever seen for changing swarms and makes a lot of sense as well as making the leveling buff actually useful. |
![Vermaak Doe Vermaak Doe](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_3_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2013.02.10 16:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks, being both an Av guy and pilot I think I've found a good balance. |
![iceyburnz iceyburnz](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
283
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Posted - 2013.02.10 18:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Are you seriously fronting that your the leader of the Guristas?
*sucks in breath through teeth and backs away slowly* |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.10 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Are you seriously fronting that your the leader of the Guristas?
*sucks in breath through teeth and backs away slowly* And who are you to say otherwise?
Ps stay on the thread topic![Big smile](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_smile-big.png) |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.11 22:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Back to the front |
![Godin Thekiller Godin Thekiller](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
14
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Posted - 2013.02.11 22:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adding on: I think they should also be slighty faster, but having a more straight flight path. That, and I be able to shoot them |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.11 22:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'd suggest an anti missile system over directly destroying them.
Militia: fires one counter missile-missile
And plus one for every tier past that.
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![Y0UR NAME HERE Y0UR NAME HERE](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
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Posted - 2013.02.11 22:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
I still think swarms should go back to manual lock and then have no splash damage to infantry to solve that issue
Or until I get my anti-infantry auto lock swarm missiles that automatically lock onto infantry with AV equipped from 500m and shoot in groups of 6 every 15 sec. |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.11 22:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Manually lock? I don't quite understand
Btw don't troll the guy killing for you |
![Godin Thekiller Godin Thekiller](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
14
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Posted - 2013.02.11 22:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:I'd suggest an anti missile system over directly destroying them.
Militia: fires one counter missile-missile
And plus one for every tier past that.
I rather have direct destruction over this, because That would mean that 3 missiles ( if I had the proto one) could still hit me. Plus, this gives Autocannons a very good advantage of having tons of bullets hitting the missiles. with, over everything else's slower, tighter spread to hit them with. |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.11 23:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Which would be an over nerf to missiles, you only want that because it's an imbalance in your favor. |
![Godin Thekiller Godin Thekiller](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Godin Thekiller
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
14
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Posted - 2013.02.11 23:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
No, They should be able to blow up my missiles as well. As a matter of fact, any missile, including the null cannon shot should be able to be destroyed mid flight. But not automatically; it should have a armor of some sort, going up as the tech level goes up. |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.11 23:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
To you only, that's why amses are asked for more often than direct destruction of missiles. |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.12 21:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bump |
![Bojo The Mighty Bojo The Mighty](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
432
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Posted - 2013.02.12 21:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
As a Swarm Launcher user I kind of like it. My only tweak to it would be to decrease armor lock time (by like 2-3 seconds), but increase all lock times with distance (acts like a wave, waves take time to move).
I mean a signature would be more dampened with distance.
As a vehicle user I don't like it. It means that my Myron is now worthless. The whole racial set up kind of means that a Caldari vehicle is now more prone to Swarms and forges and rails (because of the shield set up it has) |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.12 22:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:As a Swarm Launcher user I kind of like it. My only tweak to it would be to decrease armor lock time (by like 2-3 seconds), but increase all lock times with distance (acts like a wave, waves take time to move).
I mean a signature would be more dampened with distance.
As a vehicle user I don't like it. It means that my Myron is now worthless. The whole racial set up kind of means that a Caldari vehicle is now more prone to Swarms and forges and rails (because of the shield set up it has) But they naturally resist swarms better than armor, and the lock time would only be slightly longer before shield modules are added (about. 25 seconds shorter) |
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
432
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Posted - 2013.02.12 23:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
IGNORE: I thought you said extenders |
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![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:IGNORE: I thought you said extenders Oops i meant shield extenders only |
![Bojo The Mighty Bojo The Mighty](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
432
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:IGNORE: I thought you said extenders Oops i meant shield extenders only In that case, what would be your take on resistance amplifiers, crisis damage control mod, etc.? |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:IGNORE: I thought you said extenders Oops i meant shield extenders only In that case, what would be your take on resistance amplifiers, crisis damage control mod, etc.? They don't affect sig radius, I'm a bit "end of discussion" for keeping those awat from affecting sig radius |
![Bojo The Mighty Bojo The Mighty](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_2_male_128.jpg)
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
432
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:They don't affect sig radius, I'm a bit "end of discussion" for keeping those awat from affecting sig radius But you see now, there's an imbalance. When your HP remains the same, but your resistance goes up, it's basically like a shield extender except when your shields recharge, they are recharge more potential damage to be taken per recharge pulse.
For example, an uber shield extended vehicle vs. an uber resistant (shield) vehicle. They both take the same hit. One loses more HP, but it's a small proportion of total shields. The other loses less hp, in the same proportion though as the shield extender version (let's just say). However, when they're shields recharge, the one with the resistance amplifier wins, because it recharges the same HP, but it has greater resistance per HP, so it recharges more Potential Damage Taken (PDT). Without a signature, that's like an almighty win.
I like resistance amplifiers, but they make extenders purposeless. |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote:They don't affect sig radius, I'm a bit "end of discussion" for keeping those awat from affecting sig radius But you see now, there's an imbalance. When your HP remains the same, but your resistance goes up, it's basically like a shield extender except when your shields recharge, they are recharge more potential damage to be taken per recharge pulse. For example, an uber shield extended vehicle vs. an uber resistant (shield) vehicle. They both take the same hit. One loses more HP, but it's a small proportion of total shields. The other loses less hp, in the same proportion though as the shield extender version (let's just say). However, when they're shields recharge, the one with the resistance amplifier wins, because it recharges the same HP, but it has greater resistance per HP, so it recharges more Potential Damage Taken (PDT). Without a signature, that's like an almighty win. I like resistance amplifiers, but they make extenders purposeless. But resistance amps don't raise ehp as much as shield extenders do, so this could be seen as an unnecessary nerf |
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
432
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Posted - 2013.02.13 02:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote: But resistance amps don't raise ehp as much as shield extenders do, so this could be seen as an unnecessary nerf
But couldn't the resistance be seen as a boost to the amount of damage one can take? |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.13 03:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei wrote: But resistance amps don't raise ehp as much as shield extenders do, so this could be seen as an unnecessary nerf
But couldn't the resistance be seen as a boost to the amount of damage one can take? But they don't give the raw hp boost that extenders give. |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.13 22:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anyone see a flaw in this system? |
![Jotun Hiem Jotun Hiem](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_3_male_128.jpg)
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
412
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Posted - 2013.02.13 23:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
I like the idea.
The only think I'd change is the lock on time for armor. It's very high. 7.5 seconds is just shy of the HMGs reload time. That's a long time to track a target as small and as fast as an LAV. They'd be behind cover as soon as you got the lock. |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.13 23:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:I like the idea.
The only think I'd change is the lock on time for armor. It's very high. 7.5 seconds is just shy of the HMGs reload time. That's a long time to track a target as small and as fast as an LAV. They'd be behind cover as soon as you got the lock. To me this is a bit of a stealth buff to lavs because they'll still be as vulnerable but they won't be as insta killable as they are now
Btw I stated the time could be off for a reason so I may be wrong. |
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![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.14 13:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
Another thing to add is that only the militia swarm will take 7.5 seconds to lock on to a gallente lav without extenders, the standard will shave. 5 seconds off that time and could be further augmented to have a percentage reduction of lock on time per skill level. |
![BOZ MR BOZ MR](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
BOZ MR
BurgezzE.T.F
15
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
TWO QUESTIONS WHY THE **** THOSE SWARMS CAN LOCK ON IN .75 SECONDS? WHY THE **** THOSE SWARMS ARE ABLE TO MAKE 135 DEGREE TURNS IN LESS THAN 1 SECOND AND CAN SHOOT ME EVEN AFTER I HAVE TURNED THE CORNER? |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Not the thread for your QQing |
![BOZ MR BOZ MR](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
BOZ MR
BurgezzE.T.F
15
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Posted - 2013.02.14 16:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Those are the problems, I added some drama. You are the one that started QQ about swarms please do not reply as if you are the one that is not complaining. Edit |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.14 17:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
BOZ MR wrote:Those are the problems, I added some drama. You are the one that started QQ about swarms please do not reply as if you are the one that is not complaining. Edit But guess what? I use the things more often than I drive my tank. This would be QQ if I was asking for a damage reduction or other nerf, this is just an idea I tossed around after seeing QQ about swarms so they hopefully wouldn't be nerfed to uselessness
Op edited |
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
384
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Posted - 2013.02.14 17:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
BOZ MR wrote:Those are the problems, I added some drama. You are the one that started QQ about swarms please do not reply as if you are the one that is not complaining. Edit You call that drama? I pity you, go back to general discussion you can learn drama there, btw keep said drama out of this section, this is a place for serious discussion |
![Yosef Autaal Yosef Autaal](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png)
Yosef Autaal
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
19
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Posted - 2013.02.14 17:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
I think this system is really good and alot more within the same scope as eve, it also brings up all sorts of possible new fits for vehicles-dropships could fit shield tank,/armour tank/ speed tank or sig tank trying to reduce the sig radius enough so when being locked by swarms they are able to move out of lock range before lock is completed , obviously the HAV's do not benefit from this and suffer alot but thats what you get for feilding such large targets (possible defender missiles just like in eve could be possible active module to counter this)
More Variety is always the best. |
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Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.15 13:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
I'd perfer to have two separate anti missile systems, one decently effective but passive and one very effective but active |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.17 20:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Bump |
![Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/avatars/avatar_1_male_128.jpg)
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tl;dr shadow vehicle buff |
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