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Mithridates VI
New Eden Research Foundation
161
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Posted - 2013.02.07 22:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
There seems to be a school of thought which is in favour of playing Logistics for personal profit at a cost to team support. I'm putting my disagreement with this in the training ground because I think it's important that new players who want to go logi work this out before they decide that screwing over their team is in their best interests.
What I'm going to call the Dark Side Logi operates on a number of self-serving principles, including but not limited to:
- Opportunities to repair are given up in order to gain the +60 revive when teammates fall, whether it's in their best interests to get back up or not (hell, if you stick around, maybe you can pick them up again).
- Reppers are put away once the point cap for healing is reached and guns come out until the cap expires.
- +50 point kills are preferred to the +35 guardian bonus you get for healing someone while they kill.
It seems to me that this position can be attacked from a number of different angles.
Leaving aside the "it's nice to help your team out" hypothesis, the "you're actually building a reputation as bad support" angle and the "soon there will be friendly fire and if you revive me one more time I will feed you a grenade" argument, I'll assume that we're dealing with moral nihilists who only speak in SP/WP/ISK, otherwise known as "Disregard Teammates, Acquire Currency".
Thing is, your team is actually worth more points while they're alive. They're like big bags of never-ending points and you can either stab the points out of them with an ill-considered needling and get short-term gain, losing future points, or you can gently coax the points from them like a snake charmer with a kick-ass magic flute or something.
A living heavy with low health will give a stream of triage bonuses as you bring them back to full. Seriously. "Triage +25" flashes on your screen so hard you'll have an epileptic fit... OF JOY. Fire that repper at people whose armor is almost full, too, takes you hardly any time and it might milk more points out of them.
The guardian bonus is preferable to taking kills yourself because a decent heavy with a healer attached will kill a much greater number of enemies than a logi with an AR and a dead heavy behind him. If you're enough of a god that you can kill more reds than the big guy with the HMG, you're probably good enough that you can keep him alive while you do it. I'll sometimes quick-switch from guardian to blast someone's face off but only if I'm sure the heavy can survive not having my attention for a few seconds.
Can you get both kill assist and guardian on the same person? I don't even know but if you can, that would also be an acceptable reason for firing a couple of shots before going back to healing.
Even once your healing stops being a source of points, you still need living friendlies because you should have nanohives set up everywhere.
Like, literally everywhere. Your PS3 is crashing under the weight of rendering your millions of nanohives.
Live allies run through those nanohives and whether they think they need more ammo or not, you get a team supply bonus (and the extra bullets they have to defend you later, when everyone's in your base killing your dudes, are just an added benefit). Restock nanohives at supply depots and leave them in well-traveled walkways. The more teammates who are running around, the greater your points for supplying them.
There are probably more reasons why being a jerk healer is ridiculous and if I think of them, I'll let you know. Hey! If you know other reasons, you could even share them here. I'm not territorial or anything about this thread.
I'm going back to basking in the glory of endless points for giving people bullets they don't even want and healing papercuts on giant mechanical space soldiers. |
Mithridates VI
New Eden Research Foundation
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 01:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tac Com wrote:The point may have been wrapped up in some personal hate and issues with poor Logis.
'fraid not. Perhaps it came across that way because the parts which were intended to be silly were read as being serious?
I don't much care if other Logis are good or not... I'm running with randoms who fire their assault rifles at the enemy MCC, so bad Logis wouldn't be on top of my list of things to rage at even if I were so inclined.
If you feel like reading it again, please understand that terms like "self-serving" are applied totally sans-malice... which is why the post was geared towards explaining why it's better to work with your team purely from a points perspective.
I'm totally cool with people not caring about their team. Just thought I'd point out that even if you don't, it's still a better plan to heal them. |
Mithridates VI
New Eden Research Foundation
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 01:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tac Com wrote:
I see, but do understand that this is the written word and context and tone are hard to convey. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
No, I understand. That's why I offered the clarification.
Tac Com wrote:
To focus on the topic again, I would also like to remind that you should never go too far in one direction or the other. If you have your repair gun out all the time even while everyone is at full health "just incase," then you may be hurting your team as you might spot someone but not be ready to take that oppertunistic kill. Also when someone is down, reviving them ISN'T your top priority, making sure the site is clear is, then revival becomes your top priority.
Playing Logi is a balance between adding to the team offence and keeping your teammates alive. Making sure you have buddies beside you though is often higher on the priority list then killing but don't forget you have a gun either.
Yeah, I definitely agree with all of that. I didn't include more general "how to Logi" because other Logi guides do the same more effectively but it doesn't hurt to have a reminder. Main thing I wanted to raise here was that "Logi best practice" doesn't change whether you're aiming for points or for team victory. |
Mithridates VI
New Eden Research Foundation
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 00:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Which is to say I agree with the theme of the OP  but it's worth noting that we'd have a lot stronger Logi support in game if the systems by which Logis earned the WP/SP/ISK were more balanced/reasonable. Right now those systems require improvements, the absence of which promotes a less team/squad oriented form of game play from many who deploy Logistics.
Yeah, I'd definitely like to see the reward system for Logis worked on, but it still seems to be that the less squad oriented form of gameplay leads to less WP than does the type of Logi play where you keep your team alive even while capped and get WP out of them in different ways. |
Mithridates VI
New Eden Research Foundation
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 00:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah, the OP was in response to reading a lot of posts and talking to a number of Logis who were of the mind that there was more WP in letting people die and then reviving them than there is in keeping them alive.
If you're a Logi because you want your team to win, the OP doesn't really apply to you. |
Mithridates VI
New Eden Research Foundation
161
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 17:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
I believe they capped WP from repair because people were exploiting it by repairing vehicles they or their teammates had damaged for that purpose.
Hopefully it's a temporary solution. Would be nice if they could just track how much friendly damage and how much enemy damage a suit/vehicle has sustained and only reward the repair of damage from enemies. |
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