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Hojdar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.02.05 22:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Considering the hate that sniping has gotten recently for being too easy, I thought I'd make a suggestion to make sniping slightly more difficult without nerfing it too bad.
I propose a "random reset" after firing a shot with a sniper rifle. Currently the aim returns to the point of the shot after the shot has been fired. This should make it more difficult to get the quick second shot off while a skilled sniper still would be able to head shot as usual.
They way the "random reset" would work is a theoretical circle around the aiming dot and after firing a shot the aim would return to a spot within this circle. That would mean a slight distrurbance both vertically and horisontally. The sniper skill which i remember to reduce sway of sniping(?) could be set to reduce the size of the circle slightly making the random reset less of an issue for people who skilled into sniping.
Overall I hope this change would make sniping more challenging, more realistic and hopefully more fun
Any thoughts? |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2013.02.06 02:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't think this would make a significant difference, personally. Although something needs to be done with sniping, just on principle I'd prefer to not have anything random, but instead have predictable mechanics that reward skilled players. Something like what you've suggested wouldn't really have a learning curve to it, while stuff like adding ballistic properties to rifles (shot travel time/drop) and scope sway would. |
Hojdar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.02.06 08:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
So if I hand't named it "random reset" but "larger return area" instead you wouldn't be against it? I must point out that there is no real randomnes in this, there is a defined circle that the aim returns to. Returning to the exact same spot is kind of unrealistic.
You propose realistic balistics which sounds like a complex thing to implement, this on the other hand would be very easy to implement in comparison.
I never proposed a different learning curve for sniping with this, rather just making sniping slightly more difficult, more so for the people who hasn't skilled into sniping making the people who actually skill into sniping feel that it's more worthwhile. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.06 08:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:I don't think this would make a significant difference, personally. Although something needs to be done with sniping, just on principle I'd prefer to not have anything random, but instead have predictable mechanics that reward skilled players. Something like what you've suggested wouldn't really have a learning curve to it, while stuff like adding ballistic properties to rifles (shot travel time/drop) and scope sway would.
Right, but we're not on a ballistics system anymore. It's Hitscan, like in Call of Duty, where the bullets hit because of space magic and you aiming at the target.
Always hated Hitscan, but it makes sense for Railgun tech... |
Iam Krogan
Tuchanka Wrecking Crew
6
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Posted - 2013.02.06 12:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have a suggestion that would add some balance for sniping with sniper rifles vs other weapons.
All the other weapons should experience the same accuracy deteriation effects as sniper rifles. Inaccuracy while moving, aim waving around when not crouched. Most people "sniping" at me are doing so with ARs while jumping around happily. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 14:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iam Krogan wrote:I have a suggestion that would add some balance for sniping with sniper rifles vs other weapons.
All the other weapons should experience the same accuracy deteriation effects as sniper rifles. Inaccuracy while moving, aim waving around when not crouched. Most people "sniping" at me are doing so with ARs while jumping around happily.
Will never happen dude - there would be so much rage it would be insane. This is a game, there's no such thing as "skill" when guns are involved. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
39
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Posted - 2013.02.06 20:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hojdar wrote:Considering the hate that sniping has gotten recently for being too easy. . .
Too easy?
Just because pros make it look easy, doesn't mean it is.
Every sniper I see, on nearly every match I play, almost ALWAYS gets stomped on, and almost NEVER gets a KDR comparable to his AR/Heavy counterparts. It costs me a lot of time and isk to plan my approach and place myself in the battlefield, just so I don't get a stupid hotshot with an AR shooting me in the back, or from 100m away with perfect accuracy.
Do you have any idea how much skill it takes to provide recon info, meaningful sniper support to your squad, AND remain hidden?
Go do a 20/0 Ambush or a 40/0 Skirmish as a sniper then come back and tell us how easy it was. Better yet, make sure your side wins when you do. Then tell us exactly what you had to do to get those numbers.
If ballistics are introduced for snipers, then the damage for rifles better go up, and I mean way up. I mean, 1 shot 1 kill. It's already challenging to aim and hit a mobile target at 600m. You can't make aiming that much harder, leave damage as it is, and call that balanced.
If you want the reality of ballistics, then you need the reality of sniper rifles. 1 shot, 1 kill.
Aeon Amadi wrote:Will never happen dude - there would be so much rage it would be insane. This is a game, there's no such thing as "skill" when guns are involved.
Unless, you're a sniper. Most of the people that fuss about, lack the skill to do it. Then they cry to CCP to nerf players that can. I really don't think I can handle another nerf to my favorite class. If these guys want to play a war game that's sniper-free, let them. I'll move on to some other game. I have no respect for, and would not want to play with people that literally cry my class to death. (Sadly, no game is free of that.)
I may toy around with the upcoming scrambler rifle. Watch how fast, the AR babies wail in lamentation. If they are facing an opponent they can't strafe and bunny hop around to kill, they cry about it being OP. |
Hojdar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.02.06 22:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
I was hoping for atleast a serious discussion about this idea but all I've gotten so far is some flame and a rage post about no nerfs should hit my class. Guess hoping for a good discussion in the forums is like hoping for a kindergarden to have a political debate. And not one post has actually discusses my idea. NOT ONE?!?!
The idea behind this nerf is mostly directed at the militia sniping, which is IMO abit too good for being free. Snipers with actual skills dedicated to sniping shouldn't get hurt as bad by this, if hurt by it at all. Since the after shot sway would decrease with skills invested, only the milita sniper users without points in sniping would feel a difference.
I know I'm asking alot but... please stay on subject. I'm only trying to improve the game with a little idea. It is still beta after all. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
165
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Posted - 2013.02.06 23:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Not the right way to go about it IMHO. - random reset strongly favors charge sniper and Thales - sniping is fine, because sniper kills are not as wothy as frontline kills near objectives, generally. also kills are all that snipers do, except for combat snipers who are fine as well.
The right way to do it, IMHO, would be 100-ish damage base with 4x head multiplier. |
Rachoi
HavoK Core
17
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Posted - 2013.02.07 00:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Hojdar wrote:Considering the hate that sniping has gotten recently for being too easy. . . Too easy? Just because pros make it look easy, doesn't mean it is. Every sniper I see, on nearly every match I play, almost ALWAYS gets stomped on, and almost NEVER gets a KDR comparable to his AR/Heavy counterparts. It costs me a lot of time and isk to plan my approach and place myself in the battlefield, just so I don't get a stupid hotshot with an AR shooting me in the back, or from 100m away with perfect accuracy. Do you have any idea how much skill it takes to provide recon info, meaningful sniper support to your squad, AND remain hidden? Go do a 20/0 Ambush or a 40/0 Skirmish as a sniper then come back and tell us how easy it was. Better yet, make sure your side wins when you do. Then tell us exactly what you had to do to get those numbers. If ballistics are introduced for snipers, then the damage for rifles better go up, and I mean way up. I mean, 1 shot 1 kill. It's already challenging to aim and hit a mobile target at 600m. You can't make aiming that much harder, leave damage as it is, and call that balanced. If you want the reality of ballistics, then you need the reality of sniper rifles. 1 shot, 1 kill. Aeon Amadi wrote:Will never happen dude - there would be so much rage it would be insane. This is a game, there's no such thing as "skill" when guns are involved. Unless, you're a sniper. Most of the people that fuss about, lack the skill to do it. Then they cry to CCP to nerf players that can. I really don't think I can handle another nerf to my favorite class. If these guys want to play a war game that's sniper-free, let them. I'll move on to some other game. I have no respect for, and would not want to play with people that literally cry my class to death. (Sadly, no game is free of that.) I may toy around with the upcoming scrambler rifle. Watch how fast, the AR babies wail in lamentation. If they are facing an opponent they can't strafe and bunny hop around to kill, they cry about it being OP.
i'd like to point out that counter sniping with an AR is actually rather difficult, and i've put moreto ARs and Scramblers, i prefer the basic AR and Tactical, they have far from perfect accuracy, the main issue is because we can let out a constant stream of fire.
i've met some rather skilled recon snipers, hell, a couple of my friends are damned good at it, though i wish that there would be a slight bit of sniper sway after you fire the rifle, might make some snipers slow down and make sure those shots really count too.
wont down snipers, every gun, suit, and mod has its use, i know heavies, tried sniping, and did my best to protect Logi. we should all work together on this stuff, not just whine guys... i rather like knowing i have a sniper watching my back, and snipers need someone to play spotter still to protect them... so for now, ciao guys |
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James Thraxton
The Exemplars
75
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Posted - 2013.02.07 02:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
i request Coriolis effect, or travel time. . . might make it feel better |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2013.02.07 02:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
I want to have the feeling that 2km shots are shots of legend. Doable, but so difficult that they are rare.
So: a game mechanic which increases difficulty in getting a shot in far range. That would give snipers incentive to move in somewhat closer as the kills would be easier, which in turn would be balanced by adding vulnerability to enemy infantry. make the risk vs reward work here as well.
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Obodiah Garro
Serenity Prime Kraken.
10
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Posted - 2013.02.07 02:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
People need to remember the sniper rifles are small railguns, ie as soon as the trigger is pulled the projectile has already blasted through whatever the gun was aimed at, there simply no time for physics to affect the shot. I do however like the idea that the sniper rifle should have a low shot power with huge head shot multiplier.
Having snipers hide and randomly blast away from extreme range is what pisses people off, if people were headshotted though theres not a lot to complain about. |
Average Joe81
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2013.02.07 02:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
wow i thought this was going to be another cod boy asking for snipers to be even stronger than they are now. also that might work but why not just re add sway to the scope after each shot? not to maximum sway of course but enough to stop immediately shooting the same spot. |
S hift
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.02.07 03:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
How about this? Any energy based sniper rifle doesn't require any lead (aiming ahead morons.) but only does half damage, and any projectile based sniper weapon requires lead based on range and meters and does full damage. Meaning, if you wanna kill someone with one shot you have to aim ahead and make it count.
Sniping does take a lot of skill, and its a hard knock life for snipers. Consider its easy to run up on them, easy to dodge their shots ect. If you're getting sniped, then you're just a moron who doesn't know how to navigate fluidly between obstacles.
gg qq more. |
Don Von Hulio
UnReaL.
90
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Posted - 2013.02.07 03:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
How about bringing back the bullet physics for the guns? Oh, thats right... i heard the snipers QQ'd over it because they had to lead their targets. |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.02.07 05:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Average Joe81 wrote:wow i thought this was going to be another cod boy asking for snipers to be even stronger than they are now. also that might work but why not just re add sway to the scope after each shot? not to maximum sway of course but enough to stop immediately shooting the same spot.
You realize all that is going to do is make it so all a Sniper can kills is new players? Sway takes time to settle down; you might as well add reload after every shot as you have no control over it. Having the rifle kick and drop back to scope in a slightly off position is better, but then you have to consider the controller wobble effect.
By that, I mean overshooting your target when attempting to sight in again, and again, and again... Too far, not enough, too high, etc.. Considering sensitivity of the controller is twitch and it moves meters, this is a pain, but I do agree with the sentiment.
Unfortunately, you can't change the sensitivity as you will suddenly be wearing lead boots and be unable to turn around.
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Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.02.07 05:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Don Von Hulio wrote:How about bringing back the bullet physics for the guns? Oh, thats right... i heard the snipers QQ'd over it because they had to lead their targets.
Some may. I agree with this, and I hope projectile Sniper rifles have it. The Caldari Sniper Rifle is a Hybrid, which means it is charged plasma in a crystalline casing that explodes on impact, same as the Assault rifles. As a 'rail gun' it travels further than the ARs rounds, which could then be considered Blasters by EVE definition.
There is no reason a Sniper Rifle using Hybrid charges would not suffer from a trajectory and falloff, and they do in EVE. Much larger targets though, and bigger bullets and turrets obviously. It would likely be more than a Projectile, but they would also conceivably do less damage.
Lasers are laser, and for them, falloff is with respect to diffusion. This pretty much has the same effect. Lasers have a focal point at which they are most effective, and a point behind this where they are somewhat less effective, and in front where they have similar effect, but for a much shorter span until they are completely diffuse.
Obviously a lasers focal point can be adjusted to be effective at greater and lesser ranges dynamically, but this would still be a function of the aperture and focusing lens in the device that casts them. Mechanically, they can only be adjusted within the limitations of their design.
Just like you can increase or decrease the charge flinging a projectile, or the weight and size of the round be projected by that charge.
I say, "Do eet!!"
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mollerz
s1ck3r Corp
73
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Posted - 2013.02.07 08:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
This is lame. Sorry, but people who cry about getting killed by good players should just go away. I hear there's a cool game called farmville 2 you'd be at home with. |
Rachoi
HavoK Core
17
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Posted - 2013.02.07 10:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:People need to remember the sniper rifles are small railguns, ie as soon as the trigger is pulled the projectile has already blasted through whatever the gun was aimed at, there simply no time for physics to affect the shot. I do however like the idea that the sniper rifle should have a low shot power with huge head shot multiplier.
Having snipers hide and randomly blast away from extreme range is what pisses people off, if people were headshotted though theres not a lot to complain about.
agreed, when i get headshotted through a small crack i happen to be near... i consider that skill, i meet good snipers all the time, its the ranges i get shot at that bother me... and many others i know |
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