DUST Search - [Feedback]/[suggestion]-pub match noobs vs. pros

Geth Massredux wrote:

So back in closed beta it was hard.
So back in closed beta it took blood, and tears
So back in closed beta it was fun
With only decent players going up against each other each pub match.

(Reason) ----- What I mean is with all these open beta people's is great and all. More people the better, but they are

- too easy (they die so fast)
- your typical blueberry (not knowing what to do, won't hack objectives)
- still going through the ropes of dust
- horrible team players( usually costing you the game either it's ambush or skirmish)

I see daily post of new berries complaining all the time they get destroyed by our closed beta corps- (ZionTCD, Imperfects, seraphim initiative, etc. Usually and most of the time we really don't show any remorse to these newer players. It's easy on us and gives us the win each time we play. Either we get the objectives and redline the opposing team or just massacre them in ambush. It's getting sad that our Kill ratio is high nowadays in these pub matches.

(Suggestion) add a system too where experienced corporations play against experienced corporations and newer players play against newer players.

End result of same system-
- we still won't show any remorse against newer players- (I guess that's why it's welcome to new Eden) this would lead too more players leaving. But I can't tell the future so I don't know that.
- newer players will still complain on forums that they are getting messed up I pub matches against higher end corps

I think this should be changed. At least while we are still in beta.

i could care less about these new berries as the next guy, but c'mon they are no fun to play with.

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Geth Massredux ZionTCD Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2013.02.05 04:39:00 - [1] - Quote So back in closed beta it was hard. So back in closed beta it took blood, and tears So back in closed beta it was fun With only decent players going up against each other each pub match. (Reason) ----- What I mean is with all these open beta people's is great and all. More people the better, but they are - too easy (they die so fast) - your typical blueberry (not knowing what to do, won't hack objectives) - still going through the ropes of dust - horrible team players( usually costing you the game either it's ambush or skirmish) I see daily post of new berries complaining all the time they get destroyed by our closed beta corps- (ZionTCD, Imperfects, seraphim initiative, etc. Usually and most of the time we really don't show any remorse to these newer players. It's easy on us and gives us the win each time we play. Either we get the objectives and redline the opposing team or just massacre them in ambush. It's getting sad that our Kill ratio is high nowadays in these pub matches. (Suggestion) add a system too where experienced corporations play against experienced corporations and newer players play against newer players. End result of same system- - we still won't show any remorse against newer players- (I guess that's why it's welcome to new Eden) this would lead too more players leaving. But I can't tell the future so I don't know that. - newer players will still complain on forums that they are getting messed up I pub matches against higher end corps I think this should be changed. At least while we are still in beta. i could care less about these new berries as the next guy, but c'mon they are no fun to play with.
Don Von Hulio UnReaL. 90	Posted - 2013.02.05 04:42:00 - [2] - Quote There is supposed to be a matchmaker. It just doesn't work like it should.
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.02.05 07:03:00 - [3] - Quote I've met pros with best weapons that miss 90% of the time and still kill you, (Gek), with one shot. I'm standing there watching their bursts hit everything but me while I'm popping off a full clip into them from a Militia AR, and then they land one lucky burst and I'm dead. Pro?
Panther Alpha Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 44	Posted - 2013.02.05 09:52:00 - [4] - Quote That is not such a bad idea, maybe you could use a WP system. The more lifetime WP you have, the harder the matches get. Maybe also better rewards for harder matches ? like a bit more ISK, and a proportional % of SP gain depending on your battle rank ?
The Amusing Ciderman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.02.05 10:32:00 - [5] - Quote This was something I was thinking of the other day. Think it's a great idea.
Bohemian Raven Hot and Sexy Inc. 7	Posted - 2013.02.05 11:10:00 - [6] - Quote I'd like better matchmaking, too. Perhaps working, at least in part, based off of corp names in each team to balance things out? A newbie team isn't going to do well vs a corp of well organized people. Me'n my partner quickly found out that if there's enough people from the same corp in the opposing team, it's a good idea to bail coz we're gunna lose, and likely burn our resources in futility. I mean I run a sentinel with HMG, and I don't feel like ending up with 10 deaths that pretty much wipe out my ISK gain. I may not be all that great, but an organized enemy can make it a lot worse. My partner fields tanks. She reaaaaally doesn't like the idea of losing a quarter million in hardware if one gets blown up, nor do I. With enough smart/organized people on one team, and, well, ignorant people on the other, fielding a tank can be a massive mistake. It's discouraging to find something you think works, then you get into a lopsided battle on a random team vs a corp, and then get rolled. It's discouraging as hell, being mauled by a superior force teaches you little, and well, I'd say it doesn't allow for experimentation, but this game's really bad about that IMO, but that's another matter.
Milk Supreme ZionTCD Legacy Rising 127	Posted - 2013.02.05 11:15:00 - [7] - Quote I would prefer a better corp match incentive system so to encourage a LOT more corp fights. Better matches would be corp matches Public games would be public

CCP Eterne C C P C C P Alliance 761	Posted - 2013.02.05 11:38:00 - [8] - Quote I have removed some rumor posts and trolls from the thread.

Bigglesworth McQueen On The Brink 43	Posted - 2013.02.05 11:41:00 - [9] - Quote My newberry team clinched a win against an organised corp that's in the top 10 for WP just yesterday, in a game of skirmish. As far as I could tell, it only takes a couple of good players on one team, with well placed uplinks and rezzing to win against an organised corp of assaults and heavies with limited options for spawning or repairs. It's not impossible for the newberries to win, but I agree with you, majority of the time, they contribute more to losing a game than winning. That's not to say I haven't seen players from the top 5 sat in the redline with thumbs up their behinds, doing nothing. It works both ways. EDIT: Aren't corp battles for this kind of thing? Also, how would matchmaking work? Comparing accumulated SP and grouping similar people? Because high SP doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing. BFBC2 had skill points, I think it was, while it was a valiant effort at a match making system, it had it's flaws, and was easily abused.
The Amusing Ciderman Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.02.05 13:53:00 - [10] - Quote Bigglesworth McQueen wrote: Also, how would matchmaking work? Comparing accumulated SP and grouping similar people? Because high SP doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing. At least grouping by SP would mean that even if the players are useless, they have had the same exposure and so the same chance to learn the game compared to a noob. It makes more sense IMO. At the end of the day I work full time and have a 1 year old daughter. My time in the game is limited, compared to people who play 24/7. At least if I know the people I play against are of the same SP range I wont be getting my a$$ handed to me by laser rifles and mass drivers which I have yet to be able to access. Bigglesworth McQueen wrote: BFBC2 had skill points, I think it was, while it was a valiant effort at a match making system, it had it's flaws, and was easily abused. The amount of times I joined a game where there were at least 8 level 50's on one team was ridiculous. I fail to see how anyone enjoys just steamrollering over noobs and think they are leet for doing so?

R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2013.02.05 14:10:00 - [11] - Quote The easiest way to sort this is to create reduced-reward matches. Experienced players should have a choice:- a) join a regular battle, and accept that there aren't as many newbies around for you to farm as before b) join a newbie battle, and accept that you'll need 4 times the kills to get the same SP, and you risk GM action for griefing New players would probably try the regular matches first and get pwned. They'd then say, "hmmm... I'll go practice in a reduced reward match for a while". As soon as they are ready to move up, they will.
Rekon Syport ZionTCD Legacy Rising 6	Posted - 2013.02.05 14:17:00 - [12] - Quote SOme great ideas. Maybe matchmaker actually puts grouped Sqds vs Grouped squads even if each side is 3-4 squads witha stragller or two forced into a squad. Somehow get the team chat to work better or group those not using it elsewhere. I think the learning curve would be so much better if as "senior Citizens" everyone have voice access in match default so info can be chatted and learned every game and ramp up the n00bs. Or put the non voicers in their own game. Badly stated my point is, you get a bunch of PUGS and you can't even teach them as you go or discuss and accelerate their learning because you can't communicate. The information they could soak up in just a match or two would be so beneficial. But no, they remain bad and learned nothing by match end and hope spending SP points in the future will make them tougher bad thus complaining the better trained guys are OP cascading into most of the threads found on site. My most enjoyable time in the military was having troops to train. Loved it. Kept me fresh on my info, and I felt I was providing at least one type of perspective. I'm sure there are too many noobs that will not chat or learn to even use voice functions do to not wanting to expand and be that guy. . those saddly are our growth and we will lose them or they will drag the game play down drastically and we will be left with just EVE players dabbling in Dust. Hell I'll even roll a Training Corp alt. Send your noobs to Boot Camp, sub divide your own Corp, make a noob channel, helpers league, w/e it takes. Maybe there is a calling for a forum thread to intro a channel to all those wanting to "up" their game but eventually have to be booted out of the channel with time. But they gotta be able to hear/mic. Players can get the info and log and know it's not gunna be a trolling channel. . . but that is perhaps only in a perfect world. So yeah, make grouping better or find a way to get "new" players into the mix with the ability to learn, not remain fodder.
Proton GrjKz SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 0	Posted - 2013.02.05 14:48:00 - [13] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: The easiest way to sort this is to create reduced-reward matches. Experienced players should have a choice:- a) join a regular battle, and accept that there aren't as many newbies around for you to farm as before b) join a newbie battle, and accept that you'll need 4 times the kills to get the same SP, and you risk GM action for griefing New players would probably try the regular matches first and get pwned. They'd then say, "hmmm... I'll go practice in a reduced reward match for a while". As soon as they are ready to move up, they will. One guy in a tank can easily go 30/0. Same with HMG. If I used any of those, I wouldn't care if I had to kill 5x the amount. It's too damn easy.
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2013.02.05 15:26:00 - [14] - Quote Proton GrjKz wrote: One guy in a tank can easily go 30/0. Same with HMG. If I used any of those, I wouldn't care if I had to kill 5x the amount. It's too damn easy. Yep, he could. He can right now anyway, so we haven't lost anything. He'd just get less SP and ISK for it. He can go 30/0 in the n00b match, or 8/0 in a regular match and get the same rewards. Also, it allows the GMs to spot griefing. If a player regularly goes 30/0 in n00b matches then they can get a GM warning about griefing, because there isn't really another explanation for that behaviour.
Panther Alpha Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 44	Posted - 2013.02.05 15:42:00 - [15] - Quote Proton GrjKz wrote: R F Gyro wrote: The easiest way to sort this is to create reduced-reward matches. Experienced players should have a choice:- a) join a regular battle, and accept that there aren't as many newbies around for you to farm as before b) join a newbie battle, and accept that you'll need 4 times the kills to get the same SP, and you risk GM action for griefing New players would probably try the regular matches first and get pwned. They'd then say, "hmmm... I'll go practice in a reduced reward match for a while". As soon as they are ready to move up, they will. One guy in a tank can easily go 30/0. Same with HMG. If I used any of those, I wouldn't care if I had to kill 5x the amount. It's too damn easy. 30/0 ? I never seen such a score.... Is no way you can kill 30 people in a tank, or HMG, without dying once. For that to happen, you'll need to be playing against brainless zombies. Also, stop thinking that all New players are noobs. I only been playing for 2 weeks, and i already average about 600 to 1200 WP per match.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 206	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:25:00 - [16] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: So back in closed beta it was hard. So back in closed beta it took blood, and tears So back in closed beta it was fun With only decent players going up against each other each pub match. (Reason) ----- What I mean is with all these open beta people's is great and all. More people the better, but they are - too easy (they die so fast) - your typical blueberry (not knowing what to do, won't hack objectives) - still going through the ropes of dust - horrible team players( usually costing you the game either it's ambush or skirmish) I see daily post of new berries complaining all the time they get destroyed by our closed beta corps- (ZionTCD, Imperfects, seraphim initiative, etc. Usually and most of the time we really don't show any remorse to these newer players. It's easy on us and gives us the win each time we play. Either we get the objectives and redline the opposing team or just massacre them in ambush. It's getting sad that our Kill ratio is high nowadays in these pub matches. (Suggestion) add a system too where experienced corporations play against experienced corporations and newer players play against newer players. End result of same system- - we still won't show any remorse against newer players- (I guess that's why it's welcome to new Eden) this would lead too more players leaving. But I can't tell the future so I don't know that. - newer players will still complain on forums that they are getting messed up I pub matches against higher end corps I think this should be changed. At least while we are still in beta. i could care less about these new berries as the next guy, but c'mon they are no fun to play with. getting tired of making pies myself +1
Geth Massredux ZionTCD Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:26:00 - [17] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Proton GrjKz wrote: R F Gyro wrote: The easiest way to sort this is to create reduced-reward matches. Experienced players should have a choice:- a) join a regular battle, and accept that there aren't as many newbies around for you to farm as before b) join a newbie battle, and accept that you'll need 4 times the kills to get the same SP, and you risk GM action for griefing New players would probably try the regular matches first and get pwned. They'd then say, "hmmm... I'll go practice in a reduced reward match for a while". As soon as they are ready to move up, they will. One guy in a tank can easily go 30/0. Same with HMG. If I used any of those, I wouldn't care if I had to kill 5x the amount. It's too damn easy. 30/0 ? I never seen such a score.... Is no way you can kill 30 people in a tank, or HMG, without dying once. For that to happen, you'll need to be playing against brainless zombies. Also, stop thinking that all New players are noobs. I only been playing for 2 weeks, and i already average about 600 to 1200 WP per match. Yea this usually happens in pub matches. New people on the opposite team is usually what we get nowadays. And when they face strong corps people tend to use strong gear and tanks that take skill too destroy. EX: the gunnlogi- Im not going to lie but I use it a few times in pub matches but what my point is its too easy.
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 206	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:26:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: I have removed some rumor posts and trolls from the thread. awww.....
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 206	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:31:00 - [19] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Proton GrjKz wrote: R F Gyro wrote: The easiest way to sort this is to create reduced-reward matches. Experienced players should have a choice:- a) join a regular battle, and accept that there aren't as many newbies around for you to farm as before b) join a newbie battle, and accept that you'll need 4 times the kills to get the same SP, and you risk GM action for griefing New players would probably try the regular matches first and get pwned. They'd then say, "hmmm... I'll go practice in a reduced reward match for a while". As soon as they are ready to move up, they will. One guy in a tank can easily go 30/0. Same with HMG. If I used any of those, I wouldn't care if I had to kill 5x the amount. It's too damn easy. 30/0 ? I never seen such a score.... Quote: Is no way you can kill 30 people in a tank, or HMG, without dying once. For that to happen, you'll need to be playing against brainless zombies. Also, stop thinking that all New players are noobs. I only been playing for 2 weeks, and i already average about 600 to 1200 WP per match. pub matches.
Karl Koekwaus Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:31:00 - [20] - Quote Best way to solve this is just have 2 queues, one for Solo/Duo people queueing and 1 for Squads. This would fix a lot of the problems people discribe here. Since most stem from the 'full squad with Voice VS. Random noobs'. It would also cause Full squads to have a more enjoyable game, since squads vs. squads you get more tactical stuff instead of drop tanks and roll around.

Jack Hawthorn BlueCorp 6	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:32:00 - [21] - Quote I agree I'm tired of being on a team of noobs that don't know what to do. Or going up against a full team in prototype armor. The system should be based on the players K/D ratio, time spent playing, and skill points. Agree?
Geth Massredux ZionTCD Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:39:00 - [22] - Quote Jack Hawthorn wrote: I agree I'm tired of being on a team of noobs that don't know what to do. Or going up against a full team in prototype armor. The system should be based on the players K/D ratio, time spent playing, and skill points. Agree? Agree
Bigglesworth McQueen On The Brink 43	Posted - 2013.02.05 18:47:00 - [23] - Quote Jack Hawthorn wrote: I agree I'm tired of being on a team of noobs that don't know what to do. Or going up against a full team in prototype armor. The system should be based on the players K/D ratio, time spent playing, and skill points. Agree? No. KDR is a meaningless stat. Matchmaking should be grouped in WP per minute. If we were grouped with KDR in mind, I would be put with all the idiots who don't spawn on uplinks, don't wait to be revived, don't stay in cover when they're being repaired and don't bother waiting for ammo from the nanohives. My merc career would be over, instantly. A Logistics merc is only as good as his team allows him to be.
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2013.02.05 18:51:00 - [24] - Quote Found it! I knew I'd made a more detailed suggestion for player-balanced public matches somewhere.
Severus Smith ZionTCD Legacy Rising 163	Posted - 2013.02.05 20:02:00 - [25] - Quote Here is my suggestion. Implement Contract Levels with Gear Meta Level Restrictions. Level 0 Contracts only allow Militia Gear (ML 0) in them and have really low payouts. While a Level 3 Contract can have a fit up to ML 45 with far larger payouts then we have today. - This would ensue newer players aren't always outgeared. - Matches are more balanced. - Weapons could be far more powerful (Say Proto 2x times better than Militia) without it breaking everything since advanced gear can't be fielded in lower level contracts. - That more advanced gear / vehicles are used in the brackets they should be. It follows EVE's mission restrictions: No Battleships in Level 1 missions.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 25	Posted - 2013.02.05 21:12:00 - [26] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Here is my suggestion. Implement Contract Levels with Gear Meta Level Restrictions. Level 0 Contracts only allow Militia Gear (ML 0) in them and have really low payouts. While a Level 3 Contract can have a fit up to ML 45 with far larger payouts then we have today. - This would ensue newer players aren't always outgeared. - Matches are more balanced. - Weapons could be far more powerful (Say Proto 2x times better than Militia) without it breaking everything since advanced gear can't be fielded in lower level contracts. - That more advanced gear / vehicles are used in the brackets they should be. It follows EVE's mission restrictions: No Battleships in Level 1 missions. That's much nicer than score-based match making because: 1. it works from the day after the update and doesn't take months to sort the playerbase. 2. it allows people to stay at the level of competition they're comfortable with. 3. there's probably a lot more. ... Believe me when I say I'm a very average fps-player, but under the current match-making system I've gotten sickening kdr results since the release of the open beta. I keep waiting to be put into matches of a higher level, but it never happens. I fully expect the situation to turn around completely when my match-making score overshoots my actual ability.


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