DUST Search - Getting hit through solid objects, again.

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Speaking as a QA tester for other games back in the day (Battlefield 2)

A BIG reason this occurs is due to hitbox lag. Whenever the player starts moving, the hitbox -does- have to follow along and often times will "render" or "load" slower as the player moves faster. This is why when you see someone in an LAV drive past you might see their Chevron "stuttering" to catch up.

Now, the exact reasoning I'm not sure of. Could be server lag, frame-rate, I'm not really sure but I know a lot of us Battlefield 2 veterans eventually discovered that you don't want to lead your shots despite popular belief, and that firing directly at the target would place the bullets directly on the hitbox as it struggled to catch up with the animation.

Of course, another big issue with that (in battlefield 2) is that you would often see their chevron move before they did; so a crouching sniper behind a wall would stand up to fire at you and you would see his chevron pop up before the animation could finish, fire at him and subsequently kill him before the animation completed - and thereby leave him wondering what the hell happened because his camera wasn't fully above the wall yet.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Trevor K Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2013.02.04 19:48:00 - [1] - Quote Happening again today. Standing on the other side of a 5 foot thick steel encased support column, and guess what, red on other side of structure shot & killed me with AR spray! How is that physically possible? Has happened with pretty much every solid structure you should be safe behind. corners of buildings, edges of roof tops, inside those steel containers, etc. Generally, if you can't see something, you can't hit it. It's happened in my favor too. Gunning down a red who's running for cover around/behind something, they are out of my line of sight, but somehow I'm still hitting them & they die. Don't know if it's a hitbox issue or a structure issue. Just saying, it ain't right.
Corban Lahnder ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2013.02.04 20:03:00 - [2] - Quote I've noticed this has been happening with large blaster instillations Just shooting straight through a wall. Im beginning to think what your seeing is actually delayed damage from lag that didn't stack up until you moved behind cover. I think one thing that shows evidence of this is that some times damage against instillations is some times delayed. People will volley structures with swarms, nades, forges or rail guns, and then it will take a good three seconds for the damage to register on the structure, even if they didnt break Los. Maybe the same thing is happening in this case.
achiever Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 25	Posted - 2013.02.04 20:43:00 - [3] - Quote no guns hit tru walls case in point i was on the 5 node map the small one with what looks like a ship getting built in the middle the one where you can run too a and b and c nodes in a line well right by b node by the brige too a there a line of walls i was sitting behind them walls and a tank kill me tru them and no ther is no space for him too shoot tru it
Manti5 Toboggan Bojo's School of the Trades 0	Posted - 2013.02.04 22:21:00 - [4] - Quote Not that I'm disputing the existence of this bug, but I have gotten some kills on reds that thought they were covered... except for their foot sticking out underneath a crevice or their belly button showing through railings. Makes for relatively cheap and easy kills for a Tac AR or a sniper. But yea, blasters and rail gun shots clipping through walls does sound hella broken.
Zannason Zuni Ametat Security Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.02.05 02:03:00 - [5] - Quote it sounds like, what is normally referred to as, 'clipping'. Clipping is fairly common in MMO games. It's how the structures/objects are created. Remember clipping is a double sided sword. If clipping isn't an exploit, then use it against your foes.
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.02.05 06:49:00 - [6] - Quote Also happens with HMGs, but only through dunes and some cans and other objects.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.02.05 10:21:00 - [7] - Quote Yes, this does happen. Two things to consider: First if it was a barrier or fence of some type? If so, that may be by design although I have no idea personally. Also @Manti5 Toboggan has a good point and I have shot many a Red in the foot, although not under the Supply Depot or the CRU. Second there are known hit detection issues and those could work in both directions. Third if it wasn't the above then this might be a mesh/map problem and you should report it. You need to post in the map feedback section. If you go up two forum levels you see the map feedback section. The various maps have JPEGs that are slightly different between Skirmish and Ambush. Identify the map, switch to that forum and post the information. Grid designation: lower left corner of B4 near the building that extends to ... What the problem was: Heavy/HMG shot me through a Wall or whatever. If this is a map design or mesh (part of the map definition) this will enable them to find it and correct the problem. New Berry Hint: we have been playing with ABC letters which are in Manus Peak but never more than three. Ashland has five letters ABCDE with ABC close to one another while D and E are closer to the opposing MCCs. The map that has the center industrial section with ABC in it with D and E on separate platforms I don't know the name of. If that is it I will leave it to you to find it in the map. This one also plays with ONLY ABC as well with tighter Red Lines. Good Luck.

CCP Frame C C P C C P Alliance 470	Posted - 2013.02.20 09:51:00 - [8] - Quote Hello, Thank you for the bug report. Our team is investigating this issue and it would be very helpful if you could record a short video of this bug happening and post it here for us to visualize, test and fix this quicker.

Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2013.02.20 14:22:00 - [9] - Quote There's two things, maybe three things that could be happening here - not saying that they are, just trying to flesh out the discussion. The 4th possibility is that bullets really are traveling through the objects we're using as cover. First is clipping, where the 'real' edges of an object are not where the client draws them. It's likely there's some of this going on in some locations on some maps - it can require a lot of tweaking to get it right. Second is lag, where your DUST client and the DUST client of the guy shooting you timestamp the information they send to the server and the server resolves any errors due to network lag - like you were catching bullets(but were actually catching more than you thought you were), you retreated behind cover, and then the server resolved the lagtime discrepancy and applied damage to you. You also see this when you look at a toon in game, and it's pointing the wrong direction, eg. you and your squadmate are standing right next to each other and shooting the same target but he looks like he's pointing in a different direction. It happens a lot in MAG, for example - in real-time network-based games, i don't think there's any way around it, it's kinda like the weather. But on average, it should work in your favor as ofter as it works against you. Third is the totally unrealistic 'Killswitch applied to the little toe' effect. When a raspberry takes cover behind a wheeled vehicle I like to back up, crouch down, and proceed to destroy all his suit's shields and armor by shooting at his little toe. That's realism for ya. But, to be fair, DUST has a lot of stuff happening onscreen and we are on an old platform nearing the end of it's life. Dreaming about the possibilities of the PS4, yo. And 4th is that rounds are not detecting objects properly and passing through and detecting you. That would suck, but should be something that CCP could fix.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2013.02.20 14:28:00 - [10] - Quote Corban Lahnder wrote: I've noticed this has been happening with large blaster instillations Just shooting straight through a wall. Im beginning to think what your seeing is actually delayed damage from lag that didn't stack up until you moved behind cover. I think one thing that shows evidence of this is that some times damage against instillations is some times delayed. People will volley structures with swarms, nades, forges or rail guns, and then it will take a good three seconds for the damage to register on the structure, even if they didnt break Los. Maybe the same thing is happening in this case. +1 Great points and observations, Corban. I almost always put an extra swarm volley or forge blast on an installation than is needed because my client hasn't reported that the installation hasn't blown up yet. That's proof of lag right there.

Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.20 18:01:00 - [11] - Quote Speaking as a QA tester for other games back in the day (Battlefield 2) A BIG reason this occurs is due to hitbox lag. Whenever the player starts moving, the hitbox -does- have to follow along and often times will "render" or "load" slower as the player moves faster. This is why when you see someone in an LAV drive past you might see their Chevron "stuttering" to catch up. Now, the exact reasoning I'm not sure of. Could be server lag, frame-rate, I'm not really sure but I know a lot of us Battlefield 2 veterans eventually discovered that you don't want to lead your shots despite popular belief, and that firing directly at the target would place the bullets directly on the hitbox as it struggled to catch up with the animation. Of course, another big issue with that (in battlefield 2) is that you would often see their chevron move before they did; so a crouching sniper behind a wall would stand up to fire at you and you would see his chevron pop up before the animation could finish, fire at him and subsequently kill him before the animation completed - and thereby leave him wondering what the hell happened because his camera wasn't fully above the wall yet.
Fornacis Fairchild Kat 5 Kaos 25	Posted - 2013.02.20 20:30:00 - [12] - Quote I've only noticed this a few times like when being shot by a tank or large rail gun . Like you're running for cover and should be safe around the corner of something and still getting hit. Of course...I've never really tried shooting at a red on the other side of something......hrmmm....
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2013.02.20 22:49:00 - [13] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Speaking as a QA tester for other games back in the day (Battlefield 2) A BIG reason this occurs is due to hitbox lag. Whenever the player starts moving, the hitbox -does- have to follow along and often times will "render" or "load" slower as the player moves faster. This is why when you see someone in an LAV drive past you might see their Chevron "stuttering" to catch up. Now, the exact reasoning I'm not sure of. Could be server lag, frame-rate, I'm not really sure but I know a lot of us Battlefield 2 veterans eventually discovered that you don't want to lead your shots despite popular belief, and that firing directly at the target would place the bullets directly on the hitbox as it struggled to catch up with the animation. Of course, another big issue with that (in battlefield 2) is that you would often see their chevron move before they did; so a crouching sniper behind a wall would stand up to fire at you and you would see his chevron pop up before the animation could finish, fire at him and subsequently kill him before the animation completed - and thereby leave him wondering what the hell happened because his camera wasn't fully above the wall yet. Valuable info, thanks Aeon.
noob 45 Syndicate of Gods 7	Posted - 2013.02.21 00:04:00 - [14] - Quote I am one of those players that will **** you off leaving you thinking you are geting shot through the wall. Why? Well turrets also have a splash damage component that comes in handy shooting people around corners, or in some maps and areas shooting objects or walls just above people that are not exactly visible. I do that all the time with the rail-guns. some railings that look like small walls have really tiny gaps at the bottom that a bullet can infact pass through. For example the small map with a launch pad/circle at objective B and objective C (i think) is sitting over it. While rolling in my blaster tank I have shot people from down below through the railings that have walls as there is a tiny crack at the bottom. Its funny that it will fit through that but some objects have invisible 1m walls.
Kazio De Vihura Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.02.21 11:38:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: Hello, Thank you for the bug report. Our team is investigating this issue and it would be very helpful if you could record a short video of this bug happening and post it here for us to visualize, test and fix this quicker. Hehe you forgot it's not PC game and you can record gameplay "just like that" you need "capture cards" and i think is unreasonable to expect from average ps3 user to have one. (Or I miss someting and you can do it easy on ps3 ?)
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 184	Posted - 2013.03.03 11:34:00 - [16] - Quote Hit through fence. I posted this in Map Feedback. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61755&find=unread It might have been A instead of B. I was in the map today but I didn't have a chance to figure it out. I was a little too busy at the time. Either way, it was Up on the map. Whatever direction that is.


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