DUST Search - KDR leaderboards is pointless

Kalante Schiffer wrote:

SoTa PoP wrote:

Kalante Schiffer wrote:

DEADPOOL5241 wrote:

Kalante Schiffer wrote:

There really is no point in having them, i mean most of the top 100 for corps have a kdr of over 40 and individual players over 10 and that is total bs unless you spawn trap a lot which is also bs, spawn trapping should not happen until you red line them.

Also i wanna talk about if there will be stats for head shots, it would greatly motivate not just me but a lot of players to aim better if there was a stat sheet with how many head shots a person has gotten. It would help me judge who is a good player from a complete scrub who just body shots. In the game i come from "Resistance fall of man" it would take around 22 to 30 bullets to kill some one if you body shoot him, and if you try to head shot he will die around 16 to 20 bullets and if you were extremely good and aim at the tip of their head you could drop them with mere 11 bullets. SO seeing a player in resistance fall of man with a really high head shot count was something to respect and it meant that he was a really good player. I want to see the same in Dust 514, i want to see who is truly a master on the art of killing.

I know every game is different depending on how much damage the creators put in the game for how many bullets it takes to take down an enemy with a head shot. So dont think i dont know what i am talking about.

What world do you live on in New Eden? Cause every game that matters in FPS has ... (drum role),... Leader boards with K/D.

i have a 2.5 kdr not the greatest kdr but i cant see my head shots. I do not care about someone's kdr i want to see who kills fast and the only way i can see that is if i see a high number of HEAD SHOTS. A person with a lot of head shots = a deadly player, because it means he can kill you fast.

I hate to burst your bubble - but this isn't CoD. Every Heavy with a HMG is looking at you like you're a moron.

did you even bother to fully read my post? i am not from cod. If you are an HMG user you are an exception i am not attacking any HMG users here because heavies are meant to mow down everything on their path (isnt it that right?) not bothering whether shooting people on the head or not. if you are going to talk sh*t to me do it smartly. I expected a better response specially from a Zion member

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Kalante Schiffer UnReaL. 183	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:33:00 - [1] - Quote There really is no point in having them, i mean most of the top 100 for corps have a kdr of over 40 and individual players over 10 and that is total bs unless you spawn trap a lot which is also bs, spawn trapping should not happen until you red line them. Also i wanna talk about if there will be stats for head shots, it would greatly motivate not just me but a lot of players to aim better if there was a stat sheet with how many head shots a person has gotten. It would help me judge who is a good player from a complete scrub who just body shots. In the game i come from "Resistance fall of man" it would take around 22 to 30 bullets to kill some one if you body shoot him, and if you try to head shot he will die around 16 to 20 bullets and if you were extremely good and aim at the tip of their head you could drop them with mere 11 bullets. SO seeing a player in resistance fall of man with a really high head shot count was something to respect and it meant that he was a really good player. I want to see the same in Dust 514, i want to see who is truly a master on the art of killing. I know every game is different depending on how much damage the creators put in the game for how many bullets it takes to take down an enemy with a head shot. So dont think i dont know what i am talking about.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:36:00 - [2] - Quote Want an excuse to focus on headshots? Scrambler Pistols.
Kalante Schiffer UnReaL. 183	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:37:00 - [3] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: Want an excuse to focus on headshots? Scrambler Pistols. This has nothing to do with what i am talking about
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 233	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:38:00 - [4] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: There really is no point in having them, i mean most of the top 100 for corps have a kdr of over 40 and individual players over 10 and that is total bs unless you spawn trap a lot which is also bs, spawn trapping should not happen until you red line them. Also i wanna talk about if there will be stats for head shots, it would greatly motivate not just me but a lot of players to aim better if there was a stat sheet with how many head shots a person has gotten. It would help me judge who is a good player from a complete scrub who just body shots. In the game i come from "Resistance fall of man" it would take around 22 to 30 bullets to kill some one if you body shoot him, and if you try to head shot he will die around 16 to 20 bullets and if you were extremely good and aim at the tip of their head you could drop them with mere 11 bullets. SO seeing a player in resistance fall of man with a really high head shot count was something to respect and it meant that he was a really good player. I want to see the same in Dust 514, i want to see who is truly a master on the art of killing. I know every game is different depending on how much damage the creators put in the game for how many bullets it takes to take down an enemy with a head shot. So dont think i dont know what i am talking about. What world do you live on in New Eden? Cause every game that matters in FPS has ... (drum role),... Leader boards with K/D.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:40:00 - [5] - Quote Delete Leader boards, add battle boards.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:42:00 - [6] - Quote Also have you not heard of these little kill farming things called tanks? Thats one way to get a K/D over 10, i heard LR's were another way but i dont believe them, and lets not forget scout shotty or fused locus nades yea all these +10 K/D must camp it couldnt be anything else like skill right?
Kalante Schiffer UnReaL. 183	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:43:00 - [7] - Quote DEADPOOL5241 wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: There really is no point in having them, i mean most of the top 100 for corps have a kdr of over 40 and individual players over 10 and that is total bs unless you spawn trap a lot which is also bs, spawn trapping should not happen until you red line them. Also i wanna talk about if there will be stats for head shots, it would greatly motivate not just me but a lot of players to aim better if there was a stat sheet with how many head shots a person has gotten. It would help me judge who is a good player from a complete scrub who just body shots. In the game i come from "Resistance fall of man" it would take around 22 to 30 bullets to kill some one if you body shoot him, and if you try to head shot he will die around 16 to 20 bullets and if you were extremely good and aim at the tip of their head you could drop them with mere 11 bullets. SO seeing a player in resistance fall of man with a really high head shot count was something to respect and it meant that he was a really good player. I want to see the same in Dust 514, i want to see who is truly a master on the art of killing. I know every game is different depending on how much damage the creators put in the game for how many bullets it takes to take down an enemy with a head shot. So dont think i dont know what i am talking about. What world do you live on in New Eden? Cause every game that matters in FPS has ... (drum role),... Leader boards with K/D. i have a 2.5 kdr not the greatest kdr but i cant see my head shots. I do not care about someone's kdr i want to see who kills fast and the only way i can see that is if i see a high number of HEAD SHOTS. A person with a lot of head shots = a deadly player, because it means he can kill you fast.
James-5955 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:45:00 - [8] - Quote Everything on the leaderboard is pointless IMHO. Kills? Just a measure of how much time someone played the game. KDR? The top 50 or w/e are just people who stat padded and stopped playing to preserve their spots. War points? Just like kills, depends on how much the person has played. W/L ratio? Sure winning is great, I'm all for winning, but this stat is highly dependent on if you roll with randoms or not. & just like KDR all the top spots are likely just padders. The only thing I find the leaderboards useful for is knowing who's really active and experienced so far in this build.
Kalante Schiffer UnReaL. 183	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:46:00 - [9] - Quote James-5955 wrote: Everything on the leaderboard is pointless IMHO. Kills? Just a measure of how much time someone played the game. KDR? The top 50 or w/e are just people who stat padded and stopped playing to preserve their spots. War points? Just like kills, depends on how much the person has played. The only thing I find the leaderboards useful for is knowing who's really active and experienced so far in this build. that is why Head shots only matter and there is none to see.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 379	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:46:00 - [10] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Also have you not heard of these little kill farming things called tanks? Thats one way to get a K/D over 10, i heard LR's were another way but i dont believe them, and lets not forget scout shotty or fused locus nades yea all these +10 K/D must camp it couldnt be anything else like skill right? I once went 10/0 as a laser logi and that was around the 3 logi R's (for those that couldn't guess repairing/resupplying/reviving). It was kind of surreal due to the lack of noise and sound effects

Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:56:00 - [11] - Quote WP/death should be the real ratio. How hard you try doesn't mean ****, and "spawn trapping" still contributes to your team.
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1040	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:57:00 - [12] - Quote James-5955 wrote: Everything on the leaderboard is pointless IMHO. Kills? Just a measure of how much time someone played the game. KDR? The top 50 or w/e are just people who stat padded and stopped playing to preserve their spots. War points? Just like kills, depends on how much the person has played. W/L ratio? Sure winning is great, I'm all for winning, but this stat is highly dependent on if you roll with randoms or not. & just like KDR all the top spots are likely just padders. The only thing I find the leaderboards useful for is knowing who's really active and experienced so far in this build. I would have to agree with you here. I am fine with leaderboards staying as it supports the fps part of the game. Even if I couldn't be bothered with them. The mmo/eve part is where people need to pay attention. A corp with a A level win percentange (90%+) when FW militas are paying out of pocket for you is where its at. To my knowledge there are only like 4/5 corps that have the ability/exp in dust at the moment to carry and maintain this over the long term.
SSBBW Amber Church of the Unforgiven 26	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:03:00 - [13] - Quote I have to agree that the leaderboards in Dust aren't very useful for any other information than to see who has spent more time playing. However, I don't see any way to really fix the leaderboards, as others have stated tanks, shotties, and stat padders tend to obsure who the really good players are. Having said that, you can't really compare DUST to other games nor can you compare the leaderboards. I'm a big BF3 player, BUT BF3 game play is tons different than DUST gameplay. The ability to customize and train into better fits separates DUST from other popular FPS'. To the OP talking about headshots. Headshots are in no way indicative of a good player, unless that player is a Scout Sniper. In CQ combat headshots are easier to get than the player using the militia sniper rifle with the crappy scope. But, if they did redo the leaderboards, I think I would like to see something more like Battlelog. It is much more informative and the combination of information gives a much better picture of how well a player plays. KDRs in DUST are truely pointless because tanks can do massive damage and roll on the field for the duration of a match if the player using it has skilled into it really well. So I do agree the leaderboards are pointless in its current state. I don't agree headshots tell how well a player is. If the leaderboards were to be improved, then perhaps the best way to do it would be to divide it up by weapon/vehicle type and apply the KDR for each type. Similar to clicking on a players weapon in battlelog to see how well you are doing with that type of weapon. There is also an argument that when DUST gets an API, 3rd party devs might be able to get more information than the Dust devs are willing to put into an in game leaderboard.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:05:00 - [14] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: There really is no point in having them, i mean most of the top 100 for corps have a kdr of over 40 and individual players over 10 and that is total bs unless you spawn trap a lot which is also bs, spawn trapping should not happen until you red line them. Also i wanna talk about if there will be stats for head shots, it would greatly motivate not just me but a lot of players to aim better if there was a stat sheet with how many head shots a person has gotten. It would help me judge who is a good player from a complete scrub who just body shots. In the game i come from "Resistance fall of man" it would take around 22 to 30 bullets to kill some one if you body shoot him, and if you try to head shot he will die around 16 to 20 bullets and if you were extremely good and aim at the tip of their head you could drop them with mere 11 bullets. SO seeing a player in resistance fall of man with a really high head shot count was something to respect and it meant that he was a really good player. I want to see the same in Dust 514, i want to see who is truly a master on the art of killing. I know every game is different depending on how much damage the creators put in the game for how many bullets it takes to take down an enemy with a head shot. So dont think i dont know what i am talking about. What world do you live on in New Eden? Cause every game that matters in FPS has ... (drum role),... Leader boards with K/D. i have a 2.5 kdr not the greatest kdr but i cant see my head shots. I do not care about someone's kdr i want to see who kills fast and the only way i can see that is if i see a high number of HEAD SHOTS. A person with a lot of head shots = a deadly player, because it means he can kill you fast. I hate to burst your bubble - but this isn't CoD. Every Heavy with an HMG is looking at you like you're a moron.
Cade Orion Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:29:00 - [15] - Quote Being a LogiBro....KDR is meaningless to me...Don't care and I really never look it up. I know my role and that's to Rez, Resupply, Rally, Repair as much as I can. If you fall it's my job to bring you back up. That's what I care about.
VK deathslaer Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 149	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:33:00 - [16] - Quote James-5955 wrote: Everything on the leaderboard is pointless IMHO. Kills? Just a measure of how much time someone played the game. KDR? The top 50 or w/e are just people who stat padded and stopped playing to preserve their spots. War points? Just like kills, depends on how much the person has played. W/L ratio? Sure winning is great, I'm all for winning, but this stat is highly dependent on if you roll with randoms or not. & just like KDR all the top spots are likely just padders. The only thing I find the leaderboards useful for is knowing who's really active and experienced so far in this build. how bout you take it a step further. what if leaderboards were like eve killboards? eve killboards measure not only how many kills/deaths but measures the amount of isk your killing compared to what your losing. That's really the only stat that counts how much isk your losing to what your killing. Brings up so much more meaning in those stats i.e. good with cheap items or someone only uses expensive items therefore target that person on the battlefield and damage them psychologically.
Kalante Schiffer UnReaL. 183	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:41:00 - [17] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: There really is no point in having them, i mean most of the top 100 for corps have a kdr of over 40 and individual players over 10 and that is total bs unless you spawn trap a lot which is also bs, spawn trapping should not happen until you red line them. Also i wanna talk about if there will be stats for head shots, it would greatly motivate not just me but a lot of players to aim better if there was a stat sheet with how many head shots a person has gotten. It would help me judge who is a good player from a complete scrub who just body shots. In the game i come from "Resistance fall of man" it would take around 22 to 30 bullets to kill some one if you body shoot him, and if you try to head shot he will die around 16 to 20 bullets and if you were extremely good and aim at the tip of their head you could drop them with mere 11 bullets. SO seeing a player in resistance fall of man with a really high head shot count was something to respect and it meant that he was a really good player. I want to see the same in Dust 514, i want to see who is truly a master on the art of killing. I know every game is different depending on how much damage the creators put in the game for how many bullets it takes to take down an enemy with a head shot. So dont think i dont know what i am talking about. What world do you live on in New Eden? Cause every game that matters in FPS has ... (drum role),... Leader boards with K/D. i have a 2.5 kdr not the greatest kdr but i cant see my head shots. I do not care about someone's kdr i want to see who kills fast and the only way i can see that is if i see a high number of HEAD SHOTS. A person with a lot of head shots = a deadly player, because it means he can kill you fast. I hate to burst your bubble - but this isn't CoD. Every Heavy with a HMG is looking at you like you're a moron. did you even bother to fully read my post? i am not from cod. If you are an HMG user you are an exception i am not attacking any HMG users here because heavies are meant to mow down everything on their path (isnt it that right?) not bothering whether shooting people on the head or not. if you are going to talk sh*t to me do it smartly. I expected a better response specially from a Zion member
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 96	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:49:00 - [18] - Quote Cade Orion wrote: Being a LogiBro....KDR is meaningless to me.. I, too, am a logi (when I'm not in a vehicle that is) and unfortunately KDR still isn't really something I can ignore because the FPS crowd care about it. When you go to apply for a corp, or when the corp you're in is deciding whom to put in a fight, they look at KDR. You can be the best logi ever and some corps won't give you the time of day.
MR ExPresident ZionTCD Legacy Rising 64	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:53:00 - [19] - Quote We aren't ever gonna see an FPS without leader boards and I don't think we need to. Lets just have more options for leader boards. Keep the existing and add a head shots leader board. People can search by whats important to them. That being said if we state this is a team game, built around Corporations working together to take contracts etc it wouldn't be bad if the community and or CCP decided on what would be the mother of all leader boards and have that one listed as the primary, ie most won contracts, sorted by Corporation. Individuals don't matter, teams win games. My $.02.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:58:00 - [20] - Quote separating kdr leader boards between vehicles and non vehicles would be cool. Vehicle drivers (tankers) get their kdr leader boards and infantry get their own. If you use both, it would show you you on both leader boards. Sorry dropship pilots... I can only hope for a 'Transporting' Leader board lol As for headshots... I'm not sure whether they'd put it in. Probably not.

SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.02.01 00:10:00 - [21] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: There really is no point in having them, i mean most of the top 100 for corps have a kdr of over 40 and individual players over 10 and that is total bs unless you spawn trap a lot which is also bs, spawn trapping should not happen until you red line them. Also i wanna talk about if there will be stats for head shots, it would greatly motivate not just me but a lot of players to aim better if there was a stat sheet with how many head shots a person has gotten. It would help me judge who is a good player from a complete scrub who just body shots. In the game i come from "Resistance fall of man" it would take around 22 to 30 bullets to kill some one if you body shoot him, and if you try to head shot he will die around 16 to 20 bullets and if you were extremely good and aim at the tip of their head you could drop them with mere 11 bullets. SO seeing a player in resistance fall of man with a really high head shot count was something to respect and it meant that he was a really good player. I want to see the same in Dust 514, i want to see who is truly a master on the art of killing. I know every game is different depending on how much damage the creators put in the game for how many bullets it takes to take down an enemy with a head shot. So dont think i dont know what i am talking about. What world do you live on in New Eden? Cause every game that matters in FPS has ... (drum role),... Leader boards with K/D. i have a 2.5 kdr not the greatest kdr but i cant see my head shots. I do not care about someone's kdr i want to see who kills fast and the only way i can see that is if i see a high number of HEAD SHOTS. A person with a lot of head shots = a deadly player, because it means he can kill you fast. I hate to burst your bubble - but this isn't CoD. Every Heavy with a HMG is looking at you like you're a moron. did you even bother to fully read my post? i am not from cod. If you are an HMG user you are an exception i am not attacking any HMG users here because heavies are meant to mow down everything on their path (isnt it that right?) not bothering whether shooting people on the head or not. if you are going to talk sht to me do it smartly. I expected a better response specially from a Zion member You say KDR doesn't show you anything? Neither does headshots. You want to use one broken system over another. If you want to know someones effectiveness your best bet is check War Points - as it shows how effective//useful you've been. Otherwise even if CCP were to release all the info they have on us there's no real way to check what you want to know as weapons are diverse as the play styles here. And it's about to get a whole lot more diverse Crusader suit ziiiiing*
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.02.01 00:20:00 - [22] - Quote KDR is a useless metric in an objectives-based FPS like Dust. Fortunately KDR ranking was taken off the after-match leaderboards; I'd argue KDR should be taken off the board altogether, as it's only useful for measuring e-peen, but not a metric of skill or contribution to winning the map which should be the goal of every player. Recently had a discussion with my corp mates about this, and they agree.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2013.02.01 00:28:00 - [23] - Quote The thing about metrics is that you tend to get more of what you measure. So CCP needs to ask themselves what sort of behavior they want to encourage and make leader boards for that, and what behavior they want to discourage and remove tracking for that.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 72	Posted - 2013.02.01 00:34:00 - [24] - Quote Well as an assault trooper that doesn't camp as i go look for my victems on the frontlines and i havent used a vehicle, grenade launchers, masshole, sniper rifle or any camping tactics i do pretty well with a KD of 3.68 with 2500+ kills and its only going up each match. Ussually i am responsible of killing 1/4 the of the enemy team while dieng a max of 3-5 times. Ill most likely stall at a ratio of 6.0-7.0 if this continues... Not too bad for frontline Assault, though the stuff that bothers me on the boards are the Numerous "luckies" characters created to kill 10-20 people without dieng to lock em onto the scoreboard, then they never get played ever again...
Kalante Schiffer UnReaL. 183	Posted - 2013.02.01 00:39:00 - [25] - Quote Well i am just saying if a person's head shots are more than half of his kills is definitely some one i would recruit for my clan. and if he also has a high kdr i am not even going to question him.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.02.01 00:41:00 - [26] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: Well i am just saying if a person's head shots are more than half of his kills is definitely some one i would recruit for my clan. and if he also has a high kdr i am not even going to question him. Yep, that's a pretty safe bet - but high KDR doesn't necessarily (or even usually) make a player a good teamplayer, which is required in corp battles. Also, looking at KDR alone is a recipe for disaster, as you'll forgo a lot of cappers and logis.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 72	Posted - 2013.02.01 01:07:00 - [27] - Quote Quote: Yep, that's a pretty safe bet - but high KDR doesn't necessarily (or even usually) make a player a good teamplayer, which is required in corp battles. In that case of thought who would you pick the 20/0 that can achieve and keep achieving his score while doing his job (capping) etc but moving alone or 4 5/5's that have excellent teamwork but need all 4 of em working together to score a kill? Sounds to me the 5/5's will just get you to loose the battle eventually. Or my guess is youll find 4 20/0 guys that have excellent teamwork, in the last case 4 lone wolfs that can get 20/0 on their own still outvalue 4 guys working together...because if one block of that teamwork gets killed and eventually someone will bite it, their teamwork goes out the door...
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 241	Posted - 2013.02.01 01:11:00 - [28] - Quote There needs to be way more stats overall and a reward system for performing feats in-game. What we have right now is extremely generic. Also KDR is an extremely easy stat to manipulate and says very little about how good a player is.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.02.01 08:54:00 - [29] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: Yep, that's a pretty safe bet - but high KDR doesn't necessarily (or even usually) make a player a good teamplayer, which is required in corp battles. In that case of thought who would you pick the 20/0 that can achieve and keep achieving his score while doing his job (capping) etc but moving alone or 4 5/5's that have excellent teamwork but need all 4 of em working together to score a kill? You don't provide enough information to make a decision. Kills alone don't tell much about one's contribution to winning a match. Besides, you're comparing one player vs four, which doesn't make sense.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2013.02.01 09:23:00 - [30] - Quote Somebody that uses shotgun, sniper, smg, mass driver could have good kill efficiency but low head shots. Shotguns and smg spread may do more damage on torso then head from misses out weighing bonus damage. A long range sniper aiming for head may miss more, when a body hit would have one shoted anyway. Mass driver head shots would kill well, but would be prone to miss, bombarding a group is better use of weapon in most cases. Scramblers, yes best aim for head. Rapid busts on smg into head of people hacking works no better then a melee that saves ammo. but the high number of short range head shots for each kill would pad headshot stat well. The answer is not to remove kdr for another flawed stat. The answer is more stats, then somebody fixated on one will show it in the others, hard to pad many stats at once. A wp per game and kills per game would be nice for example. This would help spot people that only take low risk fights to protest their kdr, and wp per game would be more useful to tell how much somebody contributes in battle. Lifetime wp should stay to show volume of experience, similar to age in eve, or years in service in real life.



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