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Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
183
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Posted - 2013.01.31 17:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm seeing a little bit of RTS strategy evolve out of the gameplay on skirmish maps and it reminds me of the basic strategies of the real-time-strategy games that I used to play.
In Age of Empires for example there were these three strategies that I will summarize for the non-RTS initiates.
Rushing:
Like it sounds. The player uses limited starting resources to get an early advantage by either crippling his opponent, or getting a terrain oriented advantage against him. The downside is that if he is repelled he can be left much more crippled than his opponent.
In Dust this seems to be the rush at all objectives at once and redline the opponent strategy. This normally takes quick, agile forces and is easier on some maps than others. However those quick forces are more spread out over all the objectives, and could be countered by the team who decides to 'turtle/defend' and just commit to one fortified base early. A rush team can fail too when, after capturing all the objectives and losing much of their first wave to defenders, they may have an uncertainty about which objectives are clear and which are camped. This could result in an early clone deficit costing them their objective advantage. The offensive 'peak' of the rush team is early, pushing the enemy back on their heels to an early defeat.
Boom:
In this strategy the player commits early resources toward what typically ends up being a mid game offensive surge that overwhelms the opponent. Most initial resources or position is commited not toward positional advantage, but toward economic ones that yeild 'bigger guns' later. The idea is to leverage overwhelming force against the enemy rather than catching them off guard.
In Dust, this likely ends up being matches won through clone death, or objective wins where letters are traded early, but then tip toward the Boom team. The boom team is likely more vehicle centric and concentrated on camping spawns and sacrificing objectives in order to get kills. They will concentrate on support as well running in larger groups so that somebody is around to pick up fellow clones. If this strategy is detected early (most often by rushing teams), players could pick up on the fact that spawn camps and vehicles are the main threat which may result in a costly pyhrric victory as vehicles are hunted and offensive positions are lost from long distance snipers and more concentrated or effective counter fire. The Boom strategy peaks midgame hoping that whatever advantage is gained from its overwhelming advance carries it through to the end.
Defense/Turtle
Finally, this strategy is the most cautious comitting initial resources toward an initial defensive situational/geographic/positional advantage and investment in defensive resources best aimed at repelling the rush and feeling out the opponents strategy. It normally loses to the boom as its defenses aren't built enough to repel its overwhelming advance.
In Dust this can be the team that makes an initial commitment to the objective that's easiest to fortify. It puts down deffensive assets like nanohives, flanking uplinks, and is oriented toward logi repair/support and manning of turets. Scout detection of incoming squads yields the advantage of intercepting them before they can take cover and anti-vehicle fits me serve a threat to an incoming HAV/LAV dropship without infantry support. They can then operate out of this fortified area that is more forward than the MCC to make non-commital pushes at the other objectives causing greater clone and MCC HP deficits for their opponents than they themselves suffer from these advances. Obviously though their weakness is that, if they don't conserve their clones, and they don't push to take the majority of objectives and then reinforce them by the midgame, they can just basically be seiged. Once surrounded, even if they are clone efficient, their MCC will fall. The defensive team slowly builds up its offensive 'effect' until it peaks at the end of the match.
Thoughts? Does this reflect what you have seen as well? Of course these are on a continuum, and you don't have to purely commit to one or the other. |
Jackof All-Trades
Bojo's School of the Trades
78
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Posted - 2013.02.01 11:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Personally, I think the key to being a good leader is being able to combine these play styles. I always use my speed-maxed scout at the start of each Skirmish match - Rush. As you said, generally mid game there comes the need for a turning point. Some maps will have an easily defensible base with quick access to other bases. In these cases, Boom and Turtle it, whilst carefully moving the rest of your forces out.
Something I often see people do once they've redlined a team is they start turtling on the redline. Understandable, but the wrong approach. There's more to the game than Rushing, Boom, and Turtle, though they are some heavily used strategies. Now, back to the redline. What to do when the team is redlined? Disappear. Full stealth, place remote explosives on the objectives, mount the snipers, place the uplinks. Basically a more subtle, and even more defensive turtling. Obviously, also the easiest to be countered by simply overwhelming a single base at a time, but generally at this stage, the one who is better organized will always win.
e.g. Enemy is redlined, and Mission Commander tells everyone to get on the roofs with snipers and uplinks. He also tells a few to mount AV fits. After a minute or so, Bravo gets hacked. Remote explosive. Scout goes to replace. A few minutes pass. An LAV carrying four mercs come into sight, charging for Objective Charlie. Luckily there were some AV fits. Already time is used up, and this is generally the form of attack from a redline - chaotic and unorganized, coming in waves of small groups.
My point is - if you have the high ground, keep it. Stay there. And if you get redlined, then everyone charges in with one massive Rush/Boom hybrid. Quick and strong, overwhelming whilst still allowing you to remain ahead of enemy defenses. Scouts sent out sneakily in combination with an LAV or two backed up with a tank is a good example. The best example is when they take to the skies however.
Hope someone found that interesting. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
183
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
It would be really great if we could get recordings from the overview map of a whole game, with blips or something each time a player was killed or layed something down etc.
But I see your point and agree. The game is about applying maximum organized pressure, and I guess I more distilled a few separate aspects of battle strategy rather than gave a formula for winning separate battles.
I am in a small corp at the moment, and we haven't really gotten a chance to do a corp battle yet, but I think what may be worth practicing is very much what you are talking about...that is 'how to get out of the redline'. I haven't seen it discussed much, but a lot of people seem to switch to sniper once you are camped. Which really prevents a push forward. You can't really advance with snipers.
I haven't been redlined yet with a well organized team either, so I haven't had a chance to overcome that well set up red-turtle. My guess though would be that the red-dots on the front line may be opening up a hole in the back of the map. So a LAV/dropship rush to those points dropping uplinks strategically along the way would be crucial.
I would hope that we would get to the point where it makes little strategic sense to redline, because then you get too exposed. |
Hendrick Jacobs
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.02.01 14:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
My one and only strategy during Skirmish games is: Get in, capture 'em nodes before the enemy and deploy Drop Uplinks in case we lose the nodes(of course they never use them) and clear out the surrounding area of any other Rushers like me. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
114
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Posted - 2013.02.01 20:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why am I the first person to "like" the OP's post? Those are three great basic strats. You can make new ones and build off the old ones, but people should at least learn the basics.
Beren Hurin wrote:a lot of people seem to switch to sniper once you are camped. Which really prevents a push forward. You can't really advance with snipers.
This is one of the most intelligent and true statements I have seen on these forums. |
Swansea Starbury
Doomheim
24
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Posted - 2013.02.01 20:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Beren, your posts are always well thought out and full of knowledge for someone new to these concepts, and new to FPSes being a team concept. I appreciate your help in the community. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2013.02.01 23:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
80% or more of the player base only understands and does the "rush" strategy. |
Jackof All-Trades
Bojo's School of the Trades
78
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Posted - 2013.02.02 22:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
When redlined in public matches, the only return strategy I've ever seen that worked is charging to the furthest base you could with an LAV. This stems from the fact that like I said, no one actually bunkers down and starts camping their own objectives, preferring to sit on the redline and see who can spot the first one (which, don't get me wrong, sometimes works). Two LAV's should confuse everyone enough to sneak a few scouts in, and the extra tank should completely rewrite the mission plan. Dropships are a game changer in this, especially if you have the logistics one to spawn in on. Then you get a good pilot, and you have a moving, moderately safe, drop uplink. For the first few rounds, you'll be dodging forge guns and missiles the best you can, but the more troops you can spawn in, the more they'll go away. Because AV fits SUCK against infantry.
I haven't been in a corp battle myself, still looking for a corp that suits my interests enough to join, but I know my tactics are sound because even though I'm not able to coordinate with a mic, I have been in many situations where I was able to win by showing an example. |
Gemini Cuspid
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.02.03 08:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
I call "rushing" as one of my fav strategies but it all depends on the maps. I have to admit though I have different dropsuits pending on the map & the corp I'm gonna face. If Zion, Hellstorm or Imperfects are there, I'll probably commit to a "boom"; rush to grab turret since I'm going to expect them coming in with vehicles. If the turrets aren't an option, then it's straight to the depot to hack it and swap to an anti~armor build. Besides they're good enough corps where they'll force you to the spawn and it'll be game over at that stage.
The hard part of the game is knowing when to give up areas of the map strategically and when to gain them back. There are some maps where the opposing force can just consolidate in the middle and still win since they have 3/5 of the lettered objectives and have the entrances well covered. It's not like they committed to a turtle defense but it sometimes happens naturally.
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Jack O'Rielly
Universal Rangers
0
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Posted - 2013.02.03 08:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
In my corp there are 4 of us (including myself) that always play together and our strategy is constantly changing depending on the number of enemies we come against and the equipment they have.
Latest Example I can think of:
My squad and I were doing a skirmish and we did our regular start of match strategy which is to rush the second closet objective and hold it. They decided to zerg rush it so we just bunkered down next to the supply depot and had our heavy gunner lay down massive amounts of fire while the rest of us tossed out grenades. After that we went for the objectives the other team had captured and instead of going straight for the null cannon we went to the clone reanimation so our team can respawn next to the objective. And always with capturing two of us would be hacking (usually our sniper and one other) while the other two would be holding off the others.
That is not the strategy we always use, as I said before we come up with it right on the spot and it is always changing. The best strategy in my honest opinion is one that you can make up in the heat of battle and apply it effectively.
EDIT: It's not enough just to have a good strategy you need to be able to execute it effectively AND with the right timing. If you have the right timing but mess up the execution then the strategy may fall apart (there is always that lucky chance that it would work). and the opposite is true (bad timing, right execution). Most battles I've seen so far are 1 part Strategy, 1 part Equipment, and 1 part Pure Dumb Luck |
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0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
114
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Posted - 2013.02.03 17:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gemini Cuspid wrote:then it's straight to the depot to hack it and swap to an anti~armor build.
DEATH TO ALL SUPPLY DEPOTS!
edit: i h8 all you blue dots who hack them so I can't move my tank up. If you want tank support, don't hack the turrets and depots. Its not like you're going to hold them anyway.  |
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