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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
165
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Posted - 2013.01.30 19:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
The correct way of balancing is not through bringing all things to the same mediocre level, but by dividing them strongly into competing each at their own things.
Heavies play the heavies' game, snipers play the snipers' game etc.
After classes have been differentiated enough, balance is achieved by dividing maps into "heavy" places, sniper fields, scout ranges etc. If something is excelling in another setup's field, balance it by further differentiating the specialized minigame.
Example:
The heavies' niche is high durability. The assaults role is jack of all trades. A shield heavy with an assault rifle is VERY potential in the assaults frontline role. This is as it should be. A heavy should always out tank an assault, because it is his inherent niche. Instead of focusing into the issue of heavies, or suppressing fire weapons, we should look at the real issue which is lack of differentiation in the assault class.
The assault needs meaningful speed advantage to compete with wannabe assault heavies in the shifting frontline role. So, differentiate assaults by raising the base speed to scout level, which is meaningfully different from heavies.
Next, raise scout speed by the same amount to once again make a meaningful difference.
Et voila, heavies still excel in tight maps, assaults have an edge over shield heavies in their bread and butter task, scouts are less vulnerable to snipers by getting over the field faster.
Differentiation creates options, equalisation narrows them down. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 19:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
sounds to me heavies are the only decent suit.
an assault heavy will blow the crap out of a assault suit and any other that comes near him. snipers are in a class by themselves because any suit can be a sniper.
there really is no roll for scouts at the moment sadly. they have only a very small bit of movement over the assault suits and with some stamina skills the assault suit is pretty much the same as a scout suit in terms with stamina. with 33% less health makes them very unfavorable in CQC. one shot gun shell they are dead a quarter of a magazine they are dead. a heavy can eat an entire magazine of an AR and still survive giving him the time to turn and mow you down with his HMG while you are reloading.
the heavy is slower and can't bunny hop their way to safety like the other suits and it has health to compensate. a lot of health. assault suits are balanced in every area while scout suits are left in the dust in all fields and only get a very small boost in speed to differentiate the two. maybe if the profile skill had some gap that made it matter and not all about placement it would give them a little bit of a purpose. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
431
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Posted - 2013.01.30 19:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
All I can say is thanks for getting the actual point across in words and that this game is not finished so definitive strengths and roles aren't completely apparent as of now. |
Felix Lekhner2
Doomheim
15
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Posted - 2013.01.30 20:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
that's why i said
the highest damage class should be the sniper rifles.
heavies can stay the highest armor, but the combo of highest damage and armor is not a smart idea. |
Volgair
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
200
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Posted - 2013.01.30 20:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
You wont hear me disagree.
-Scouts need to be faster (7.4 base and 10.1 sprint just like they were back in September, only this time round with a fully functioning hit box)
-Heavies need increased and scaling EHP with their drop suit levels
-Logistics need more EHP to more efficiently fill the roll of an effective force multiplier.
-Assault are pretty much good.
-LAV base line "assault" models (Saga and Methana need more PG/CPU)
-Drop Ship need more EHP base, CPU/PG. as well as the ability to get a portion of the WP of people that drop from them (for say 2 minutes.) WP's for remote rep's. Lets face it they are fugging pointless right now. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 20:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Felix Lekhner2 wrote:that's why i said
the highest damage class should be the sniper rifles.
heavies can stay the highest armor, but the combo of highest damage and armor is not a smart idea.
nothing like a heavy sniper ruining your day. he has to take more than 1 headshot to go down while sits up on his mountain one shotting scout snipers with body shots. |
Drado Arona
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
64
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Posted - 2013.01.30 20:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Felix Lekhner2 wrote:that's why i said
the highest damage class should be the sniper rifles.
heavies can stay the highest armor, but the combo of highest damage and armor is not a smart idea.
>MFW my sniper friend kills heavies in 2 hits
>MFW he can one shot anything else
>MFW heavies need to hit my LOGI suit TWICE to kill me when sniper kills me in 1
Also, why does everyone always forget about the logi suit :( I love this bloody suit! |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 20:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Drado Arona wrote:
Also, why does everyone always forget about the logi suit :( I love this bloody suit!
because they fill their roll.
they should be an assault suit with no side arm and extra equipment slots. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2013.01.30 20:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think speed and stamina should be the secondary advantages of a SCOUT. SCOUTs should be focused more on scanning and profile stats. |
Drado Arona
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
64
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Posted - 2013.01.30 20:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Drado Arona wrote:
Also, why does everyone always forget about the logi suit :( I love this bloody suit!
because they fill their roll. they should be an assault suit with no side arm and extra equipment slots.
Fine, then give me shield reppers already. |
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Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 20:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I think speed and stamina should be the secondary advantages of a SCOUT. SCOUTs should be focused more on scanning and profile stats.
shame it doesn't work.
right now it's all about placement with only a 90 degree of area is covered by the scanners and the scanners only go so far. making placement more important. you can sneak behind enemy lines with a logi suit without any trouble. |
56 truth
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2013.01.30 20:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/so-you-want-to-be-a-game-designer/
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/counter-play/
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/balancing-for-skill/
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/power-creep/
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/perfect-imbalance/
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/tutorials-101/
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/playing-like-a-designer-part-1/
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/playing-like-a-designer-part-2/
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/playtesting/
dont mind me im just giving my meta two cents |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama
Endless Renaissance
203
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Posted - 2013.01.30 23:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:there really is no roll for scouts at the moment sadly. they have only a very small bit of movement over the assault suits and with some stamina skills the assault suit is pretty much the same as a scout suit in terms with stamina. with 33% less health makes them very unfavorable in CQC. one shot gun shell they are dead a quarter of a magazine they are dead. a heavy can eat an entire magazine of an AR and still survive giving him the time to turn and mow you down with his HMG while you are reloading.
Sneaky...
We are sneaky.
I can see you through walls from a lot farther away than you can see me.
Pew! Pew! Dead clone.
Sneaky...
Drop Uplink in hidey-hole.
"Why are there reds suddenly all over Alpha?"
Sneaky...
Hacking turret.
"WTF? I just got blasted by the turret next to our CRU!"
Sneaky... |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 23:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:
Sneaky...
We are sneaky.
I can see you through walls from a lot farther away than you can see me.
Pew! Pew! Dead clone.
Sneaky...
Drop Uplink in hidey-hole.
"Why are there reds suddenly all over Alpha?"
Sneaky...
Hacking turret.
"WTF? I just got blasted by the turret next to our CRU!"
Sneaky...
i can do the same with an assault suit. they aren't special in any way. if i am close enough i will see you through the wall, the scanners are broken and don't effect gameplay in any significant way.
also a heavy can walk up behind you and not be seen at all because your scanning range is only a small cone. you see nothing behind you. which puts more emphasis on position, if you see that there are a ton of red dots in an area and you know where the snipers are, you can walk right behind the targets and get the CRU with any suit.
as far as i know they didn't change it from last build, i didn't see any notes that said other wise. i had maxed out my dampening skills with 2 modules and i had no trouble doing the same with a suit without the 2 modules on a higher class of suit. if someone looks at you you still light up on the radar no matter what your skills or suit are. |
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