They are machine pistols, not really smgs. Otherwise, they would be main weapons, and not sidearms.

It is a close quarters weapon. I thought I would point that out. And shooting from the hip is not ... optimal. Also, got Nerfed.
Prey we don't Nerf it again*.

Logi Bros can use any Light Weapon or Sidearm in that slot. The close quarters choice is to keep them alive while they get rushed trying to do their Logi Bro thing. But use whatever floats your boat. ARs, Shotty, Scrambler, SMG or just dope slapping them Reds.




*through breath mask.

The SMG is an awesome close quarters SIDEARM - the shotgun is a primary weapon, so is not comparable.

The pistol is a single shot close to mid range sidearm with small clips and low total ammo - the SMG has huge clips and will easily take down a heavy if the heavy has to turn to shoot you. The pistol is really difficult to hit with especially if your enemy is dodging around well. With the SMG you can just spray in the area and you'll take him down pretty quick.

I run an assault 1 suit with pistol primary and SMG secondary and I love it. With the extra CPU and PG I can put 2 shield extenders as well as an armor plate and armor repair module with grenades and nanohives.

My advice is get yourself up the first couple of levels of sidearm sharpshooter - it really does wonders.

Anything from maimum Shotgun range down to point-blank, SMGs will outperform ARs. At the high end of Shotgun range, they beat Shotguns (if you use aimed fire).

I've tested this with Toxin vs. Advanced Shotguns and ARs, Weaponry 4 and SMG Ops at 2 on my character. Don't know exact skill stats on the opponents, but they can't possibly have as low Operations for their weapons as I do.

I don't know where you get your stats from McReady because their ridiculous SMG rate of fire means that if you're within the 100% effective range, they do outperform the AR, especially the assault SMG. Plus your AR clip will run out far before your SMG.

Not so sure about them beating shotguns though. Would have to be right at the top of the effective range.

As for your statement about the SMG, yes it does less damage per round but the rate of fire outweighs this quite signifcantly. Without being able to get on right now I couldn't quote the exact figures but it does outpower the AR within the 100% SMG effective range.

Ignorant newberry is ignorant. Hit up google's calculator and multiply the rpm by the damage per bullet for each weapon. That'll give you the damage per minute. The SMG DOES top the AR on DPM, especially equal lvl SMG vs equal lvl AR. I'd do the math for you right now, but I can't recall the exact damage per bullet on an SMG atm... =( BUT, the DPM on a basic AR (not counting reloads) is 31x750 which equals 23250 DPM minus reload times (which are a lot longer than SMG reloads btw ). Anyone care to run the SMG damage per bullet numbers? Or get me the number so I can run it? I think the RPM is 1000.

As for bullets stopping after a distance, that's because they ARE NOT BULLETS.

The AR loses more damage against an erratic target than the SMG does because of this.

You might want to go back and re-read my post. Particularly the part where I already explained very clearly the exact reasons behind WHY there's a benefit to lower accuracy in CQC.

And kick is a part of the CQC advantage for the SMG, because it helps to further reduce accuracy, thus ensure a better chance of hitting a target that isn't moving predictably.

.

Chill, folks. Blacknova is referring to the fact that the un-upgraded SMG is essentially a slow motion shotgun. Unleashing a clip will have a similar spread to a shotgun blast, only with the bullets going out one at a time instead of all at once. If you've got a guy bunnyhopping all over the place in CQC, you can pretty much just hipfire in the general direction of his torso and the majority of your bullets will connect somewhere on his body for damage. I do this to people all the time, usually killing them with my last few bullets while they're trying to reload.

The problem with this strategy is that it assumes that your opponent is not using a mouse, in which case he's going to be able to draw a bead on you even while jumping like a crazy idiot. Also, it becomes less and less viable as you skill up the SMG, as that reduces the kick and increases the accuracy.

To really get kills with the SMG, you need to upgrade the hell out of it, along with sidearm sharpshooter. You still have to get into medium to close range, and you'll never compete with the sheer damage of an AR, but the bigger clip and faster reloading time means you will almost always win in a reloading fight.

I'd also recommend avoiding HMG heavies altogether. Even if you get the drop on them, they'll probably have just enough time to smear you into paste before their armor gives out. (If I had a quarter for every heavy that's killed me with only a tiny sliver of his health left, dinner would be free tonight.)

1. When you line your crosshairs up on a target and pull the trigger, your shot goes approximately where you aim. The first shot's accuracy is based on the accuracy stat of the weapon. Subsequent shots are affected by kick and the weapons rate of fire.

3. You aren't psychic, and therefore don't know exactly when your opponent is going to move, or which direction they're going to move in.

4. When your crosshairs AREN'T directly over the target, you're relying on the spread of your shots to give you a chance to hit the target.

5. Weapons with a higher rate of fire give you more chances for a shot to hit in the scenario described in point 4.

6. Weapons with a wider spread give you a wider arc in which you still have a chance to hit the target.

7. When a skilled CQC player is moving UNPREDICTABLY, you're not going to be keeping your crosshairs on them even for the 0.1s (or less) it would take to land a bullet on target.

8. Point 7 means that, in extreme close range, you rely almost entirely on your weapon's spread in order to land hits.

9. As a result of the above list, you SHOULD be able to see that SMGs with a wider spread have an advantage in a scenario where you're relying on spread.

Mid-range SMG fire kills Shotgunners with minimal (if any) damage in return. Which leads me to....

Unless you're using a Shotgun or coming with friends, you generally don't want to engage HMGs within their effective range. Doesn't matter which non-Shotgun weapon you're using

I know I said I wouldn't bother replying, but you've actually moved on from your idiocy before. Good job!
Mid-rnge is where most Shotguns stop dealing enough damage to be worth firing. And a Shotgun takes a LOT longer to deal damage than SMGs do at that kind of range, even if it's one with enough range to be capable of hitting a target.

...except that it takes less than half the time for him to kill you with bodyshots.

TRYING to aim in that situation makes you miss MORE against someone who knows how to fight at that range.

I feel like I should be saying that to you. Not so much for the above part of this post, but almost everything else you've said since you first replied to me. Including what comes next...