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Rus Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
6
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Posted - 2013.01.29 23:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:
Losing your corp and identity is a huge hit to morale.
This. In a persistent single shard world, corps _will_ have assets (bases on planets, shared equipment), standings and reputation. After all, risk and loss which matter are the main selling points of Dust. And even in EVE, your reputation is in the end that matters - it gets you friends and enemies. Big alliances live and die by their morale and reputation. And this will propagate to Dust, as the world is shared. No one can remember names of all half a million characters - it's the standings and reputation that takes them to you.
And if you can kill reputation and morale, the group is dead. This is of course very difficult, and often takes hundreds of people and months to do. But it's also something that is done in EVE already, so it's a reality, not just theory. Dust being partially separate helps a bit in limiting that, but it's still theoretically possible. |
Rus Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
6
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Posted - 2013.01.30 23:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
gbghg wrote:the mindset to consider. I mean the mindset of an mmo player who sinks months if not years into a character and a group will be radically different in how they perceive certain things, to an fps gamer who is more focused on his next unlock and his k/d ratio.
Yup. But the said morale affects both. If you want the most lucrative deals, you have to hire people you don't see every day IRL, which opens you to spies. So, if someone really wants to, they can spend, say, 6-12 calender months and couple of man-months to infiltrate you, to harvest detailed information about everyone in your corp, schedules, relations, tactics, equipment. Now, consider a situation where on every battle the enemy seems to know your tactics and field exact counters to your tactics and fits and behaves like they saw your screen and heard your voice comms. Every time you conspire a new approach with your core group, they know about it by the time you hit the battle. There's also bound to be someone who's been thinking of leaving corp, and the enemies target him specifically, and feed his distrust towards you. Your K/D ratio starts to come down, because there is a counterto every fit and enemies take advantage of that. Some people start saying it's pointless to play as you will not win anyway. After a few weeks you don't get the best contracts anymore, as your reputation has taken hit. How many weeks would it take before people would start leaving, or suggest you play some other game instead?
This is what breaking someone's morale means: making people lose interest to fight back and making them feel they don't havefair chance of winning.
If this seems far-fetched, it's not. This is stuff that EVE players routinely do.
Of course this is unlikely to happen to you. But the OP wanted to know what's possible, not what is likely.
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Rus Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
6
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Posted - 2013.03.03 02:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cpt Murd0ck wrote:I'm not liking all the "fps gamers only care about this" or "mmo players are different because of this" EVE just like DUST will has different layers of player who want different things from their games. I played EVE for a while and big corp scandals and battles between the likes of goonswarm or BoB never effected my game (directly) Some players will just want to log on everyday to kill other players, inflate their KDR and be the top of the leaderboards. Other players will only care about nul sec sec and scoff at the "noobs" who play pub matches they will care about their corp and it's reputation. It's these players who WILL care about about all the politics and scandals but that's the beauty of new Eden its a different game to everybody. DUST might not end up with the same scope but CCP do it right it and should have at least a fraction of it. 
This.
Most EVE players are in space because they want to have fun, get kills and earn some bragging rights. It's not that different to any other competitive gamer.
And if you can remove those elements, or couple of them, by using ISK, fraud, espionage, covert ops or politics, most people leave for some other corp. Sure, you and the couple of friends closest to you will remain, but the reputation you so hardly built will go poof. That's how it works in EVE, and that kind of game will sometimes spill over to Dust. It might not be that frequent, but it's *possible*. And the OP wanted to speculate about the possibilities, so that's what I do.
You just need proper mix of spying, betrayal, intelligence and hard work and you can make most of the people in the target corp feel they can't win, their bragging rights go missing due to opposition knowing too well how they work and they stop having fun because the game seems unfair.
Now, when the game stops being fun, most people just leave. They go to another corp and another game. If someone in your corp says "hey, let's play ME3 instead, it's more fun than this" and half of the people follow him, you have already lost the war even if the people technically stay in your corp.
And that kind of stuff works *better* if the guys in your corp have short attention span and just want some easy fun. So the FPS players described by some in this thread fall into this kind of pitfall *more* easily than players whose goals span years. Much of this kind of work boils down to this: the attacker will try to make the game as unfun as possible to the target. He is willing to make *his own* game unfun for weeks or months to accomplish the goal. And the side that can endure the unfunness longer and still remain active and retain their spirit wins.
Good example of this kind of work are corp thieves: they are often hunted down repeatedly and with dedication and force, until they figure it's easier to biomass the character. It doesn't matter if you hide for months, they *will* be waiting the very day you come back. So in the end it's easier to just say "goodbye" to the SP and make a new character.
Like I said, I don't believe most EVE corps bother to do this to Dust corps. But it's not impossible, if someone really wants.
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Rus Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
7
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
kas croixe wrote:yeah, here's the problem with your espionage and sabotage, and theft(don't act life its some kind of heroic achievement. you're just stealing from someone else's hard work because you're spiteful that they have more than you)
Are you now talking about corp theft or espionage? They are very different things. Everyone who wants to remain in power does espionage and counter-espionage. There is nothing dishonorable in them; the EVE Universe *is* about getting power and not letting someone else have it. Without that aspect EVE and Dust would be just yet-another-boring-MMOs. And when getting into power, information is a critical asset; thus all possible ways are used to know the enemy plans.
Corp theft on the other hand steals someone else's belongings; it is generally frowned upon very much.
If you feel spying, espionage, cabinet dealings and cartels are bad form, you're playing in wrong universe. Because these are both essential on how corporations and alliances interact, they are also integral part of the EVE world. |
Rus Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
7
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 02:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jonny RIC0 wrote:Sontie wrote:They won't be ganking us. They wil be hiring us to gank the planetary assets of others.
We are dust compared to them. We mean little to nothing. And vice versa. Nothing anyone in EVE does will effect my enjoyment of this game one little bit.
I am not that sure about it. After all, every non-sucky item (that does not cost AUR) will over time be manufactured by capsuleers. And every major war is capsuleers fighting each other. It might not be them *directly* talking to you, but the effects are global. Just like every capsuleer now feels the effects of certain high profile campaigns, like Burn Jita or Hulkageddon, as they raise price of certain goods for everyone.
However, what I see the first major interaction is infiltration. Because all-dustie corporations don't have routine on anti-espionage measures _but_ capsuleers will still often want to coordinate operations with them, dustie corps will provide soft targets for spies. Most likely the spies would never directly affect the host corp, but they would relay information about combined operations and tactics to the enemy.
This is how it goes: when you infiltrate your enemy, you always pick the softest targets first. Then ones that are least prune about their operation security. And the dustie corps that work on "we dun care about pilots" principle are the softest possible targets. |
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