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Enalie
Gentlemen's Foreign Legion
Gentlemen's Agreement
4
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Posted - 2013.01.29 05:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
The following ideas are meant to fix a couple of things I see to be somewhat problematic:
1) Clone Reactivation Unites (CRUs) are boring sub-objectives. Sure, they affect where people can spawn, but there is really no interaction with people who are still living and fighting (except for hacking it, of course. Turrets allow you to kill people, supply depots reload ammo, and CRUs just sit there.
2) Supply Depots in there present form seem a bit too close to being an exploit. Firstly, a mercenary who is sitting on a supply depot can keep firing forever without any concern for ammo. Or they can throw an unrelenting hail of grenades upon their enemies, without interruption. Secondly, it's always seemed odd that a merc can change their dropsuit at a depot. If they can change dropsuits, why can they spawn there (and then what would be the point of the CRUs)? This problem is compounded by the fact that changing dropsuits at a depot allows for an instant, no-cost armor repair. The idea of changing weapons and modules at a depot is appealing, but changing dropsuits seems a little too much.
Equipment Changes: Limited use equipment (remote explosives, nanohives, drop uplinks, etc.) will be consumed if any number of the item is used in battle. This means they will not be reimbursed to a mercs assets if their clone survives the end of the battle, is safely deactivated (see CRUs below), or swapped out at a supply depot (see below). Unlimited use equipment (nanite injectors, repair tools, etc.) will not be changed.
CRUs: A mercenary can safely deactivate their dropsuit at a friendly CRU. Doing so takes them back to the deployment screen (the overiew map where you can select where to spawn), and allows the merc to respawn at a new location, without consuming from their teams clone total. In effect, this is like the suicide option already available in game, without the penalty of losing a clone. The process of deactivating a clone take a short period of time (maybe 10+ seconds) where they are vulnerable, and cannot be done if they've been in combat recently (maybe 5-10 seconds). The reason for the delay to deactivate is to prevent their use to avoid a death from an enemy, and to slightly deter using deactivation to travel quickly to other areas of the map. If they wish to respawn at another location quickly, they will have to use the suicide option, which will remove one clone from their teams pool.
Supply Depots: Mercs will no longer be able to change dropsuits at supply depots. They will only be able to change weapons, modules, and equipment on their current dropsuit. Mercs will be able to resupply used equipment at depots, however it will require an additionaly unit of that item from their assets. Another change is that weapons/grenades that have been used recently (5-10 seconds) will not be resupplied by the depot.
I'll post some example scenarios in a second post shortly. |
Enalie
Gentlemen's Foreign Legion
Gentlemen's Agreement
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 05:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
These are just meant to be some very basic examples, to show what would happen to assets were these changes implemented.
In all scenarios, the mercs starting assets are as follows:
10 Logi Dropsuits, 10 Heavy Dropsuits, 10 Nanohives.
Note: 1 Unit of nanohive can be used twice.
Control Scenario 1:
Merc starts out in Logi dropsuit and nanohive. Merc surives the enitre match, and never uses a nanohive.
Result: No change from starting assets.
Control Scecenario 2:
Merc starts out in Logi dropsuit and nanohive. Merc dies once and never uses a nanohive.
Result: 9 Logi Dropsuits, 10 Heavy Dropsuits, 9 nanohives
Resupply/Equipment consumption scenarios:
Scenario 1:
Merc starts out in logi dropsuit and nanohave. Merc survives the enitre match, but uses the nanohive once.
Results: 9 Nanohives, all other assets remain the same.
Scenario 2:
Merc starts out in logi dropsuit and nanohave. Merc survives the enitre match, but uses the nanohive twice.
Results: 9 Nanohives, all other assets remain the same.
Scenario 3:
Merc starts out in logi dropsuit and nanohave. Merc survives the enitre match. During the match the merc consumes both charges of the nanohive, and resupplys it at a depot. The merc doesn't use any additional charges of the nanohave for the rest of the match.
Results: 9 Nanohives, all other assets remain the same.
Clone Swapping Scenarios
Scenario 1:Merc starts out in Logi dropsuit and nanohive. Merc deactivates clone at CRU without having used the nanohive, and swaps to a heavy dropsuit. Merc surives the rest of the match
Result: No change from starting assets.
Scenario 2: Merc starts out in Logi dropsuit and nanohive. Merc deactivates clone at CRU without having used the nanohive once, and swaps to a heavy dropsuit. Merc surives the rest of the match
Result: 9 Nanohives, all other assets remain the same.
Scenario 3:Merc starts out in Logi dropsuit and nanohive. Merc commits suicide without having used the nanohive, and swaps to a heavy dropsuit. Merc surives the rest of the match
Result: 9 Logi drop suit, 10 heavy dropsuit, 9 nanohive |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 07:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
You have presented a well thought ought argument and I respect that however your idea of the how the assets work is a little wonky.
If I survive the entire match but use my nanohive i lose it? what about grenades? Or drop uplinks ?
The current system rewards you for surviving and doing what you have to do. As a logi I always use all of my nano hives given I survive long enough to do so. And im running advanced gauged they aint cheap... so I get punished for doing my chosen role?
Losing items because you use them is a poor way to make people use their items.
And I feelcthat yes the tiny robots at the supply depot can help you put on a new suit although say if it were damagex enough it would be lost. But from a balanc perspective letting people change suits mid battle allows us to more effectively adapt to chnaging conditions on the battlefield. I often will chanfe my suit depending on what is happening say the other team is sniping like mad. I bring out the fat suit counter sniper.
Tanks forge gun.
Idiot reddots running at you in straight lines like fools out comes the laser! So while using it fo spam nades is a little broken very few are in good spots to do so.
I think It is working as inteded (for the most part) |
Thranx1231
CowTek
90
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 07:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
@Val'herik Dorn response I agree with completely.
The Supply Depot makes the battles more of a challenge. As a Gunner my HAV driver will take them out. CRU as well if necessary. But, if the Blues can hold it I can talk him out of either or them. A supply that the Blues never hold I am on that sucker like white on rice even though I am only using the turret blaster.
The reason he wants to destroy them is he doesn't want some Logi Bro converting to a Forge Gunner right under out noses. Or, worse yet, our backside. Without them, why worry about it, a Logi Bro cannot hurt a HAV. Maybe if it is carry AV Grenades and we have lost shields and half our armor otherwise pfhht. Kitten them.
And when I am not gunning I love swapping out to Swarmer, Forge Gunner, HMG, Sniper and Logi Bro with a side of Hacking. That makes for fun battles. |
Enalie
Gentlemen's Foreign Legion
Gentlemen's Agreement
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 21:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:You have presented a well thought ought argument and I respect that however your idea of the how the assets work is a little wonky.
If I survive the entire match but use my nanohive i lose it? what about grenades? Or drop uplinks ?
The current system rewards you for surviving and doing what you have to do. As a logi I always use all of my nano hives given I survive long enough to do so. And im running advanced gauged they aint cheap... so I get punished for doing my chosen role?
Losing items because you use them is a poor way to make people use their items.
Grenades would work the same as they currently do, since they're considered ammo and are already replaced by standing near a supply depot or nanohive. Drop uplinks would be in the category of nanohives (as would remote explosives, tank mines, and anything else that fits in an equipment slot and has limited uses). So why the cost for these items? Basically to prevent abuse (imagine someone who kept going back to the depot to drop hundreds of remote explosives around him) and to keep some of the limitations that already exist on this kind of equipment.
Val'herik Dorn wrote:
And I feelcthat yes the tiny robots at the supply depot can help you put on a new suit although say if it were damagex enough it would be lost. But from a balanc perspective letting people change suits mid battle allows us to more effectively adapt to chnaging conditions on the battlefield. I often will chanfe my suit depending on what is happening say the other team is sniping like mad. I bring out the fat suit counter sniper.
Tanks forge gun.
Idiot reddots running at you in straight lines like fools out comes the laser! So while using it fo spam nades is a little broken very few are in good spots to do so.
I think It is working as inteded (for the most part)
Yes, I do believe that people should be able to change dropsuits, but I don't think "instantly" and "at no cost" is the right combination for doing so. With the current mechanics, a merc can go from a scout dropsuit to a heavy dropsuit without any cost or penalty--all the modules from the scout suit are preserved, and it is done instantly. This allows for too much flexibility without any cost. It trivializes the decisions of other mercenaries because a merc can change into something that counters an enemies strategy instantly and without cost. Choosing a dropsuit should be a tactical decision, and changing dropsuits should be much the same. The system I've proposed creates a cost to to changing dropsuits: time or resources.
If a merc wants to quickly change to another drop suit, they can use the suicide option. However, this costs a clone from the pool, and the merc loses all the equipment attached to that dropsuit. And since the suicide option can be done pretty much anywhere, there is a very minimal cost of time.
If instead they want to preserve their gear and clone, the merc has to make its way to a CRU and wait a brief period of time. While there's no significant resource cost, the merc ends up having to use a significant portion of time in order the change dropsuits.
Basically, I dislike the current implementation for changing dropsuits at depots because there is very little risk in doing so, and allows for too much flexibility. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 21:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
We still need to encourage some people to protect supply depots- since they repair the armor of whatever vehicle I happen to be driving, I think that should slowly repair dropsuit armor, too. |
Thranx1231
CowTek
90
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 00:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:We still need to encourage some people to protect supply depots- since they repair the armor of whatever vehicle I happen to be driving, I think that should slowly repair dropsuit armor, too. They repair it nearly instantly. Just swap your suit to anything else: heavy to scout. Next switch it right back. New shields and armor. Just like that.
McBob I am totally in agreement with you on defending the area and its assets. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 00:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thranx1231 wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:We still need to encourage some people to protect supply depots- since they repair the armor of whatever vehicle I happen to be driving, I think that should slowly repair dropsuit armor, too. They repair it nearly instantly. Just swap your suit to anything else: heavy to scout. Next switch it right back. New shields and armor. Just like that. McBob I am totally in agreement with you on defending the area and its assets.
As far as switching suits to repair, I think we can all agree it's an exploit at this point. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 00:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't see any problem with the current supply depots, that is just the tactical advantage they provide. |
DeathStalker Synchro
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 00:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah I like you're ideas and how thorough you are but the supply depot and CRU changes aren't really that necessary. Sure a strawberry could nade spam the hell out of me from the supply depot. It's no different than if he threw his entire supply of grenades at me any other time. These grenades have a 3 second fuse time and that gives me enough time to escape the blast radius. In the event this guy has some advanced/prototype grenades, gets lucky, or is one hell of a grenadier. Then it totally alright. He's put at a disadvantage as well. He has to stay close to the supply depot as well. The problem solves itself, throw a grenade.
Of course if this ever was a severe problem. There could always be a different rate which the grenades resupply.
Then there's the lose of equipment suggestion. We wouldn't want to punish those who resupply and support friendlies. The instant lose of equipment would result in support soldiers hesitating to support. I would hate for someone to deny any support because they're afraid to lose their 5k+ equipment.
None of these installations need any changes.
- The Supply Depot accomplishes it's job of rapid resupply and an option to change your fittings.
- The Turrets prove themselves as both great defensive and offensive weapons when used correctly.
- The CRU allows us to spawn closer to the fight. And in Skirmish is easier to hack and allows teammates to start the respawn timer immediately after completing the hacking. Which is a great alternative to waiting for a Objective to finish uploading the virus.
The tactical uses of the CRU will later be seen in further gameplay types. Though in both Ambush and Skirmish it proves useful already. |
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I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
172
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 01:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
These installations will have changes to them later on and will actually have to be bought.
I'm actually looking forward to sending in supply depots and CRUs with upgraded abilities. For instance an upgraded supply depot that repairs armor and supplies equipment. Right now these installations work as intended and I don't see any reason for them to become more complicated or rebalanced. |
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