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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1593
   |
Posted - 2013.01.28 05:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before any of you folks decide or continue to demand Dust representation in an Eve-dominated Council of Stellar Management, consider the following.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzEVPtkJAkmPYzlhNjk0MDEtN2MwNC00YWUyLWE0N2EtNzA5MWMyYTZlN2U0/edit
The above is a PDF copy of how the CSM came to be and where it had its humble beginnings. If you bothered to read this 21-page history you will see that the CSM had to work ridiculously hard to earn the respect they have today. They were once regarded by the majority of the Eve players as nothing more than a PR stunt setup by CCP Games and that very few players took it seriously. Finally, after so much drama and slow earning of trust from the players, they managed to gain the recognition they so well deserved. It was not easy. In fact, there are still a number of Eve players out there who don't believe in the CSM even to this day.
If Dust players were to want representation within the CSM, which can only be voted in by the active-subscription-paying account holders of Eve Online, respect for such representation will have to be earned because (let's face it) Eve players will not take DUST 514 seriously for at least the first few years. In fact, you all already have many things working against you.
1. You are all labeled by a lot of Eve players as stereotypical FPS scrubs who don't want to think for themselves. Sadly, that is the label you've been given. I'm an Eve player and I don't like it either, but that's the sad truth.
2. Many Eve players actually want to see Dust fail just for the sake of wanting it get ported into the PC platform. Sick. I know.
3. If us Eve players were really harsh towards our own representatives, imagine what your representatives would have to endure for the first few years of their work.
As you can see, you mercenaries have a long road ahead of you if you want your representation to be respected. But this is just a small part of a major problem.
The other part of the problem is our community as Dust players. So far, we are just bickering with each other calling each other blueberries, accusing each other of lagswitching, nerf this or that without thinking, ranting over something as insignificant as a description of a Merc Pack you bought on the PSN, etc. Imagine how that makes us look to the Eve community. We must look really silly to them. So it's no wonder they disregard our representation in the CSM as nothing more than silliness. It's because we are just not cohesive enough as a community like the Eve players are.
Therefore, if you want to be taken seriously in terms of being represented in the CSM, you have to first improve yourselves before making any demands for such a big thing as representation.
The first thing we should at least do to start this off is by helping new players... not hazing them. Veteran Eve players help newbies all the time because they know that their game is really complex to understand and that such complexity will be intimidating to the average MMO player who is just testing out Eve. We should do the same for Dust newcomers. All too often we see veteran players flaming newcomers for simple posts asking simple questions. That alone tarnishes the image of Dust as a serious game. If the whole point of Dust is by expanding the New Eden universe which is heavily depended on the community as a whole, then treating newcomers like a bunch of outcasts will be counter intuitive. So go out there and help out new players. They need our help more than ever since Dust is a whole new breed of game and the success of Dust depends on our will to help others.
The next thing we should all do is get ourselves informed on a regular basis. The more we know about how things progress, the less ignorant we become. All too often I am seeing players posting ignorant comments without so much as doing their own homework on certain matters like the New Eden player-driven economy, story lines, what Devs post on Twitter or IRC, etc. Remember, the forum is not your only source of information. That's not how real communities operate.
Another thing we should do is start contributing to the community in more ways than just tutoring newbies and following CCP Devs on Twitter. We should all be really lucky that players like Chribba have decided to pitch in and give us a working website ( dustboard.com/global ) dedicated to showing us stats on Dust 514. He is known throughout the entire Eve community as the number one contributor to New Eden. He has given us the Eve version of Google Search, cloud storage, and stats. Without him Eve Online's community progress would have been delayed. There is no telling how many third party developers had been inspired by his example. Since he is now contributing to Dust's community development, who knows how far this will go.
And finally, host live events as much as possible. Eve Online players do this all the time to create content for outsiders to see and be awed by. If there is anything that sets apart any game from the rest of the competition that would be player-driven content. The epic fight in Asakai is a recent example of such content. Because of this recent battle, activity in Jita (the economic hub of New Eden) has sky rocketed which obviously made some traders very rich while the local lone wolves in the low-sec system managed to get a chance to participate in an epic fight they didn't expect to be in. Then there is the annual laser light show in Maurasi in which ships fire their lasers to celebrate the new year. Then there is Hulkageddon and the Gallente Ice Interdiction by GSF. Imagine this level of player-driven content in Dust.
Finally, we must help CCP... not crucify them for every little thing they do. Don't be selfish with your demands. Contribute for god sakes.
If we can achieve the above, then we will have taken many steps in trying to earn the respect of Eve players. So what do you say? |
Jason Sera
DUST University
Ivy League
18
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Posted - 2013.01.28 05:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
That was a brilliant post! I look forward to getting to know the rest of the Dust and EVE community and being an active part of it with DUST University. Like you said, it's going to take us some time to gain any respect in New Eden. I don't blame anyone for that. A lot of us are new and haven't got a clue to what we're doing. Honestly, regarding the community, it feels like we took a step back with the opening of the beta. The influx of "new" players with "old" complaints and issues has been frustrating for many of us. But it'll get better. There are many respectable corps. coming together nicely. We're beginning to develop some relationships. The game is running better and we're due for a new build soon. All in all I think we're doing OK....and besides, we're still in beta. We've still got some time to earn respect here. And we will. I imagine a lot of us will meet up at an EVE fanfest in the future and laugh about the old beta days of Dust. In fact, I look forward to it! Til then my friend, Shoot True. I wish you well in New Eden. |
Three Double-A Batteries
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
41
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Posted - 2013.01.28 06:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved |
3 bird
DUST University
Ivy League
86
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 06:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is nothing I can add to this thread that the op hasn't already said. just wanted to say thank you for putting into words what I have been struggling to say for so long.
Thank you |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 07:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
3 bird wrote:There is nothing I can add to this thread that the op hasn't already said. just wanted to say thank you for putting into words what I have been struggling to say for so long.
Thank you
How about just "Like" his post and call it good?
This is not the troll you're looking for. |
3 bird
DUST University
Ivy League
86
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 07:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Because I liked your post because it made me smile, his post struck a cord with me that I felt a simple like wouldn't express. |
Sargon Akkadi
Ordus Trismegistus
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 07:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
This man is a scholar and a gentleman. That took some serious time and thought to post. Thank you.
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DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1904
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 07:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd like to donate every single one of my likes to you, good sir.
So, here's +1,718 likes for you, since this is actually the best post I have ever had the pleasure of reading.
You hit the nail on the head with a precision strike bro, kudos. I for one am picking up a recording thingy for my ps3 this Thursday with my first check in over a year now, and I'm going to start making tutorial videos for all the "classes" and just all sorts of things in DUST, since as you said; we need need NEED to not kitten the kitten out of our community, and destroy the depth of the EVE universe by devolving into squabling idiots that shoot each other all day for no reason other than shooting each other all day
Seriously, +1,718 likes.
If you don't have the time to read the OP, you are what's wrong with DUST. CCP needs to nerf you. |
STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
60
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 08:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
I solemnly vow to never call Dust Mercenaries "Blueberries" "Bunnies" or "Dusties"
You all shall be referred to as "Mercs" or "Blue/Red Dots" .
 |
Innus threen
The Exemplars
19
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Posted - 2013.01.28 08:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
STYLIE77 wrote:I solemnly vow to never call Dust Mercenaries "Blueberries" "Bunnies" or "Dusties" You all shall be referred to as "Mercs" or "Blue/Red Dots" .
I always thought dust bunnies was a term of endearment?
Anyways, this was a wonderfull post and I would give it more likes if I could. |
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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
788
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Posted - 2013.01.28 08:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Good post is good.
I'd like to point out though, that dust representation on the Eve CSM would be a horrible thing for another reason.
They may be linked, but they are two individual games. Already there is so much within Eve to talk about in their CSM summits when they fly people to iceland, that they often run out of time in scheduled sessions and need to either continue it over lunch or have people stay later than expected each day! What if they add Dust as a dedicated subject to talk about? It'd be even more time consuming and largely unfair/unproductive as most of the CSM does not play dust or have any firsthand knowledge of it.
People should never be asking for a Dust seat(s) on the Eve CSM. They should be asking for Dust representation on a Dust CSM.
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Nickles Jester
BetaMax.
43
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Posted - 2013.01.28 10:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
I liked this because it was well written, intelligent, and had lots of good and valid points. I consider myself a bit of a hybrid player. Most players consider themselves to be just console or just PC, at least in the dust/eve environment. Now I've been gaming since the early 90's starting with just about every console there has been. I started gaming on PC in probably 1996-1997 and since then FPS has been my bread and butter, started and loved the oldies DOOM Duke nukem wolfenstien then half life and I played the beta for the mod counter-strike, then counterstrike was really the game I probably got most serious about, I had gotten as far as cal-I with my clan #sand. I then migrated more towards consoles due to pc hardware failure, as time went on I got a better PC for the time and got into allot of different MMORPGS including playing EVE for some time probably about a year before the release of the 3D character models so it's been awhile. I haven't been able to play again because again I ran into Hardware problems and for the time it's much more cost effective to game on console until I can buy a new gaming rig.
However I digress and I need to get to the meat of what I want to talk about. There are a few things you said that kind of irk and that I don't agree with. One being where you said "which can only be voted in by the active-subscription-paying account holders of Eve Online" That kind of irked me because if you have an idea what you are doing in EVE especially if you've played long enough to garner any sort of respect in the game you shouldn't be paying a subscription. It takes at most 30 minutes a day in order to make enough funds to play for free so that's why that statement kind of irked me. That's not the real point I wanted to make just part of it.
My point and the last thing that irked is that your OP tho filled with great points is complete Eve elitist bull-kitten. I say this because us dust players don't need to bow down to the great and mighty eve community. Eve players NEEED to earn the respect of the console FPS dust players just as much if not more so than the dust players need to earn theirs.
One of the reasons Dust was put on console in order to get a MUCH larger audience in the FPS genre for their FPS game is because MMORPG players do not have the correct skill set or mindset to successfully play FPS. That's why they stick to MMORPGS, as much thought and planning it requires it's still tons easier than FPS on a purely physical level, that's why most if not all FPS players consider MMORPG players newbs because they simply don't have the tactics, reflexes, or situation awareness to succeed as much in fps as they do in RPGs.
Eve is a great game, its mathematics, planning, business, politics, and strategy. What it is not is physically demanding. Also the EVE community has treated it's own community far worse then dust has in the past, the trolling, the trash talking, the drama has been 10000x times worse in eves past so I'm not entirly sure what your talking about. Lastly as it is now in the current build Dust players don't need EVE players at all, they offer zero benefit or difference to Dust players we still get OB without them from ccp. However EVE needs us as it is now in FW what we do actually matters in the EVE universe, and there is not a damn thing that EVE players do currently that affects our game negatively or positively.
TL;DR I respect the post , no intelligent eve player pays for subscription, EVE players have disrespected their community with trash talk and trolling far worse then dust has to theirs. Dust players do not need to earn the respect of EVE players as much as EVE players need to earn the respect of Dust players. Nothing EvE players do contributes negatively or positively to the dust community where as just about everything Dust players do affects EVE in FW. Majority of MMORPG players could never physically do what most FPS players do so MMORPG players shouldn't hold up their noses to us and act like elitist dicks because they need us more than we need them.
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Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 10:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Good post is good.
I'd like to point out though, that dust representation on the Eve CSM would be a horrible thing for another reason.
They may be linked, but they are two individual games. Already there is so much within Eve to talk about in their CSM summits when they fly people to iceland, that they often run out of time in scheduled sessions and need to either continue it over lunch or have people stay later than expected each day! What if they add Dust as a dedicated subject to talk about? It'd be even more time consuming and largely unfair/unproductive as most of the CSM does not play dust or have any firsthand knowledge of it.
People should never be asking for a Dust seat(s) on the Eve CSM. They should be asking for Dust representation on a Dust CSM.
If this is indeed the case (I have no reason to doubt it), we should have a separate Dust CSM to address Dust-specific issues. The Dust and Eve CSMs could also meet to hammer out details on the interaction and interface between the two games. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1593
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 15:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
@Nickles Jester
Thank you for contributing to the discussion and I respect your opinion.
You made a very solid point that Eve Online players should also do their part to at least help out in this relationship between Eve and Dust. However, I have to disagree on one thing. Neither community needs the other. Both games are technically designed to be separate but just connected enough that people recognize the benefits of working together. Even faction warfare pod pilots don't need Dust Bunnies to take control of a FW system. One example is the recent success of the Gallente faction taking 100% control of all of the FW systems against the Caldari and they did so without the help of Dust mercs.
Likewise, Dust will be given tools and content to help Dust merc feed themselves while they get ready to generate their own content. It's a loose connection that doesn't mean that both games need each other.
But the reason I stated my argument that Dust players have to earn the respect of Eve players is because Dust players are encroaching into a world that took players 10 years to build and perfect. They made New Eden great because they poured in blood, sweat, and tears into what they have now during those 10 years. Without them, Eve would never have been successful. And now here we are as Dust mercs barging in and all of a sudden we demand representation? We haven't even gotten started with our share of the workload let alone make any meaningful impact that is everlasting.
But overall both sides have to put in their share of the workload to make this Eve/Dust relationship work. We are in a very vulnerable state right now in the Dust community. We have to be careful with how we portray ourselves. |
Monkxx
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 15:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dustboard links to http://eveboard.com/.
Does it mean we have been abandoned by Chribba? |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1593
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 16:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seems to work just fine for me. Browser problem maybe?
EDIT:
Nevermind. Looks like a misprint on my part. You type in dustboard.com/global without the www for some reason. |
BigussDikkuss
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 17:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Paraphrased: "Blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah.... I like manifestos...blah blah blah..I'm not crazy...blah blah blah...no, I don't really have a life...blah blah blah."
Wow.
...
Dork.  |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1593
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 17:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
BigussDikkuss wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah.... I like manifestos...blah blah blah..I'm not crazy...blah blah blah...no, I don't really have a life...blah blah blah.
Wow. ... Dork.
*Ninja Knives Biguss from behind and disappears into the shadows*
Anyways as I was saying. |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control
Otherworld Empire Productions
136
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 21:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Seems to work just fine for me. Browser problem maybe? EDIT: Nevermind. Looks like a misprint on my part. You type in dustboard.com/global without the www for some reason.
Config error on my part. www.dustboard.com should now also redirect fine.
Thanks for noticing 
/c |
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Monkxx
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 21:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Continuing the CSM Representation topic...
Who are we going to represent? Bunch of children who can't afford another CoD for 60 bucks? Or maybe casual players who play on their sofas time to time?
Currently Dust514 doesn't affect Eve Universe - and Eve economy particulary - in any effective way. As long as the things remain as they are Representation is just an empty talk. |
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Sobriety Denied
Universal Allies Inc.
432
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 21:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
it doesn't help our image any that many open beta noobs are spamming local with their disgruntled chimings ("this game sux lol you guys are all fgts," etc.) but i still go out of my way there to help newbs who seemed interested yet confused and who can blame them really. it is annoying tho that ppl dont just log out and play the game they like, it's like these kids first chat room or something. it's also reetarded to see community elders/elitist/nerds trolling these new ppl in local that are confused yet genuinely want to know the game.
many of the newberries have fps skills and are an asset, the ones who suck and troll local unfortunately will give us even more a bad name |
BMSTUBBY
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
95
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 22:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Having the default voice set to Team Chat would help us in this quest of helping new persons. 
Just imagine if we had proxy chat, then we could help both the red and blue dotted new persons.  |
Dr Debo Galaxy
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
199
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 22:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Great post and I agree.
Can't we all just get along? |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1593
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 06:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote:Having the default voice set to Team Chat would help us in this quest of helping new persons. Just imagine if we had proxy chat, then we could help both the red and blue dotted new persons.
Proximity chat would actually help go a long way in helping newbies who forget to switch to the proper chat channels. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1593
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 06:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Monkxx wrote:Continuing the CSM Representation topic...
Who are we going to represent? Bunch of children who can't afford another CoD for 60 bucks? Or maybe casual players who play on their sofas time to time?
Currently Dust514 doesn't affect Eve Universe - and Eve economy particulary - in any effective way. As long as the things remain as they are Representation is just an empty talk.
Your first statement: I don't know really. We're a mixed bag here.
Your second statement: Key word being "currently" so expect to see more integration in the months or years to come. |
Heraclion Jones
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 11:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm a noob. Well, I have been playing since closed beta v1.0 but sporadically (as I write this on my phone my 2yo is trying to grab it). So basically noob still, I want to love and nurture this game and make it great but like many have said the wankers make that difficult. I'm 33 and experienced in FPS all the way back to doom. This is different, this has promise.
The small children acting out will turn it into cod like gung-ho bullshit.
I haven't joined a corps yet because I want to understand the backstory and ethos along with the EVE interrelationship first.
My current ethos:
Learn
Join
Contribute
That way we can grow together and kill more effectively |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1593
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 17:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Heraclion Jones wrote:I'm a noob. Well, I have been playing since closed beta v1.0 but sporadically (as I write this on my phone my 2yo is trying to grab it). So basically noob still, I want to love and nurture this game and make it great but like many have said the wankers make that difficult. I'm 33 and experienced in FPS all the way back to doom. This is different, this has promise.
The small children acting out will turn it into cod like gung-ho bullshit.
I haven't joined a corps yet because I want to understand the backstory and ethos along with the EVE interrelationship first.
My current ethos:
Learn
Join
Contribute
That way we can grow together and kill more effectively
Exactly my point. Which is why I needed to emphasize with everyone here the importance of having each of us contribute to the community and learn from the hard lessons that Eve Online players experienced back in 2011 (Google "Jita Riots/Summer of Rage/Monocle gate") so that Dust can thrive like Eve has. It's the only way to make sure scrubs don't turn this game into just another copy-paste COD/HALO/BF.
If we can do that, then we can finally say for certain that we are ready for representation in the CSM. |
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