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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 17:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've noticed recently that LAVs driving anywhere near someone with even standard AV grenades is screwed. First, with my experience as an LAV driver, the range of AV grenades is roughly the same as small blaster range; that's OK, except people with AV grenades can never be prioritized as a special target, as you can't see that they have grenades. That is the strength of them, and I don't have a problem with that.
The problem I have is that in the short amount of time it takes someone to hit a vehicle with all 3 of their AV grenades (assuming they don't have a nanohive), a swarm launcher can only fire once, and forge guns are still charging. The difference is, a single standard forge round or swarm volley won't down a decent LAV, but the 3 standard AV grenades will, no problem. LAVs that are driving to let their gunner get a shot, rather than driving full speed, can't accelerate quickly enough to react to this (believe it or not).
I think AV grenades should actually be grenades- give them a fuse instead of letting them detonate on impact. HAVs have the health to survive this, so why not let LAVs use speed to their advantage? Having to time a grenade throw would also take more skill than just throwing all your homing impact grenades in rapid succession. |
Sargon Akkadi
Ordus Trismegistus
4
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Posted - 2013.01.28 07:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
The range on the AV is short enough that getting 3 on a LAV that is zooming by is not that feasible. Getting two or three on the guy that is trying to run you over whilst appearing intoxicated behind the wheel is a cinch. LAVs are pretty soft to them, granted, but infantry is pretty soft to well-driven LAVs. We are just here to keep the DWI's down with a zero-tolerance policy! |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
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Posted - 2013.01.28 09:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
You can lob those suckers pretty far, the OP is right.
Though, I don't have a problem with that. Personally the only change I'd make to AV nades is making them resupply much slower at supply depots and nanohives. Being able to throw them nonstop makes them infinitely more powerful than forge guns or swarms as the sustained DPS is MUCH higher over a shorter period of time.
An LAV with hardners on can survive all 3 AV nades pretty easily with more than enough time to escape. |
Rus Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
6
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Posted - 2013.01.28 09:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
In general, going head to head with someone who knows you are there is and should be a bad idea. The only folks that can get away with this are heavies and tanks, and even them need to apply some care. The LAV has superior mobility compared to infantry; use that to gain surprise and if you can't do that, switch to foot. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 02:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
As far as what 2 of you have said about the mobility of LAVs, it isn't as good as you would think for escaping grenades. Using blasters, the driver WILL have to slow down for the gunner to do any serious damage to all but the stupidest infantry. Even with a boost system or whatever it's called that I'm using, someone with good reflexes will still probably get hit twice (unless you have top of the line modules, you won't survive that), and your average player will probably take a third grenade. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 02:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sargon Akkadi wrote:The range on the AV is short enough that getting 3 on a LAV that is zooming by is not that feasible. Getting two or three on the guy that is trying to run you over whilst appearing intoxicated behind the wheel is a cinch. LAVs are pretty soft to them, granted, but infantry is pretty soft to well-driven LAVs. We are just here to keep the DWI's down with a zero-tolerance policy! Keep in mind that most legit drivers don't try running over people. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 03:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
-1
AV Grenades are fine. They are supposed to nuke vehicles that get too close. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 13:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:-1
AV Grenades are fine. They are supposed to nuke vehicles that get too close. AV or not, vehicles need a chance. |
semperfi1999
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
317
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 14:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
I completely disagree here. AV nades are fine...I already accepted the fact that when I am throwing an AV nade at a LAV that is driving parallel to me the nade will most likely barely tap the rear and only do about 25% of the dmg it would normally do. If you charge right at me I know how to throw my nades to make them hit you. But parallel you have to throw way ahead such that it has landed and you drive over it for the nade to do full dmg. I saw someone with a gold LAV recently that was able to take all 3 of my nades and still survive. I had to pump it with 5 AV nades before I destroyed it (he had a shield recharger). Militia fit LAVs should not be very good against standard AV nades. Get a standard fit vehicle and fit it correctly then come back and tell me that they destroy you and dont give you a chance at all. |
Don Von Hulio
UnReaL.
90
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 14:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:"The problem I have..."
Someones tired of being blown up repeatedly. This almost sounds like you think.... they are OP? Well, swarms and Forge gun can fire from long distances, AV nades are fine.... next time dont try running every enemy over thinking they are a scrub or driving so close to groups (Thats where most of my AV nade kills come from). Maybe put some SP into your vehicle if you are worried so much about dieing in it.
If it coming straight at you, just toss it on the ground in front of you and hope its a OHK. |
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Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
205
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Posted - 2013.01.29 14:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:-1
AV Grenades are fine. They are supposed to nuke vehicles that get too close. AV or not, vehicles need a chance.
It's called don't slow down.
If you slow down, my Swarms will catch you- one shot, one kill. If you slow down, I can hit you with my Forge Gun- one shot, one kill. If you slow down, I can chuck AV Grenades at you- three grenades, one kill.
LAVs are supposed to rely on speed. The gun is a harassment tool, not a Blaster Turret. If you stop in one place too long, you are asking to go boom. |
Kaiden Solian
Red Lightning Industries
8
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Posted - 2013.01.29 15:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
I use AV to kill enemies instead of tanks. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:-1
AV Grenades are fine. They are supposed to nuke vehicles that get too close. AV or not, vehicles need a chance. It's called don't slow down. If you slow down, my Swarms will catch you- one shot, one kill. If you slow down, I can hit you with my Forge Gun- one shot, one kill. If you slow down, I can chuck AV Grenades at you- three grenades, one kill. LAVs are supposed to rely on speed. The gun is a harassment tool, not a Blaster Turret. If you stop in one place too long, you are asking to go boom. OK genius, how can a gunner with a blaster turret kill someone with a top speed driveby?
Don Von Hulio wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:"The problem I have..." Someones tired of being blown up repeatedly. This almost sounds like you think.... they are OP? Well, swarms and Forge gun can fire from long distances, AV nades are fine.... next time dont try running every enemy over thinking they are a scrub or driving so close to groups (Thats where most of my AV nade kills come from). Maybe put some SP into your vehicle if you are worried so much about dieing in it. If it coming straight at you, just toss it on the ground in front of you and hope its a OHK. Bullshit. It's the times when I'm driving parallel to AVers that I'm getting hit 2 or 3 times. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote: It's called don't slow down.
If you slow down, my Swarms will catch you- one shot, one kill. If you slow down, I can hit you with my Forge Gun- one shot, one kill. If you slow down, I can chuck AV Grenades at you- three grenades, one kill.
LAVs are supposed to rely on speed. The gun is a harassment tool, not a Blaster Turret. If you stop in one place too long, you are asking to go boom.
OK genius, how can a gunner with a blaster turret kill someone with a top speed driveby?
They aren't supposed to. As I said, LAVs are a harassment tool. The point is to get the Reds to keep their heads down so that the infantry advancing behind you has a better chance of opening a breach and routing them.
As I also said, this game is about choices. The driver can stop for a few seconds to let the gunner get some kills, but knowing that to do so puts his LAV at greater risk. Frankly, if you stop AT ALL in a Militia LAV, a Militia Swarm Launcher will cream it. Your only hope is to keep moving and interpose an obstacle before it gets too close. AV Grenades will do the same thing, but they at least require the thrower to be close enough to shoot back at.
It is also worth noting that there are multiple types of 20GJ blasters. You can upgrade these, based on your skills. If you want to have a better shot of using your LAV to kill infantry, skill into better LAVs and turrets.
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Kaiden Solian
Red Lightning Industries
8
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Look the satchel seems more out because 1 can take the tank down and a reg AV can take down a tank in roughly 2 or three I never tried but it can take an LAV in 1 LAV are light so its gonna feel like an OP to some. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
I see someone is angry at people like me who deliberately make themselves juicy targets for LAV bumper cars games, then begin lobbing death at them.
it's kinda like playing chicken on foot, only this time the guy on foot has a prayer. |
Kaiden Solian
Red Lightning Industries
8
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Or learn the perfect timing for satchel or throw |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote: It's called don't slow down.
If you slow down, my Swarms will catch you- one shot, one kill. If you slow down, I can hit you with my Forge Gun- one shot, one kill. If you slow down, I can chuck AV Grenades at you- three grenades, one kill.
LAVs are supposed to rely on speed. The gun is a harassment tool, not a Blaster Turret. If you stop in one place too long, you are asking to go boom.
OK genius, how can a gunner with a blaster turret kill someone with a top speed driveby? They aren't supposed to. As I said, LAVs are a harassment tool. The point is to get the Reds to keep their heads down so that the infantry advancing behind you has a better chance of opening a breach and routing them. As I also said, this game is about choices. The driver can stop for a few seconds to let the gunner get some kills, but knowing that to do so puts his LAV at greater risk. Frankly, if you stop AT ALL in a Militia LAV, a Militia Swarm Launcher will cream it. Your only hope is to keep moving and interpose an obstacle before it gets too close. AV Grenades will do the same thing, but they at least require the thrower to be close enough to shoot back at. It is also worth noting that there are multiple types of 20GJ blasters. You can upgrade these, based on your skills. If you want to have a better shot of using your LAV to kill infantry, skill into better LAVs and turrets. There's no one way to use something (LAVs are a rpime example, since there are tons of different opinions on how they're used). IMO, LAVs are for quickly bringing heavy firepower into an engagement, then quickly escaping once it gets too hot. There is no chance to escape the engagement with AV grenades like this |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaiden Solian wrote:Look the satchel seems more out because 1 can take the tank down and a reg AV can take down a tank in roughly 2 or three I never tried but it can take an LAV in 1 LAV are light so its gonna feel like an OP to some. A good LAV actually takes 2 or 3
edit: or are you talking about proxy mines/remote explosives? not sure what you mean by satchel |
Kaiden Solian
Red Lightning Industries
8
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Kaiden Solian wrote:Look the satchel seems more out because 1 can take the tank down and a reg AV can take down a tank in roughly 2 or three I never tried but it can take an LAV in 1 LAV are light so its gonna feel like an OP to some. A good LAV actually takes 2 or 3 The ones I run into just go down in one for me seems to easy. |
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Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote: There's no one way to use something (LAVs are a rpime example, since there are tons of different opinions on how they're used). IMO, LAVs are for quickly bringing heavy firepower into an engagement, then quickly escaping once it gets too hot. There is no chance to escape the engagement with AV grenades like this
If you cannot figure this puzzle out, then there is no hope for you. Give up on vehicles forever. it's not that hard.
and LAVs are NOT for heavy firepower, they are expendable, cheap, mobile gun platforms. you stop, shoot, move, stop, shoot.
emphasis on mobile.
if a newberry in an assault suit stands still on the field and is thusly screwed, why do you assume a LAV that sits still is an exception to the thought?
Hell TANKS that stand still and don't run or charge are doomed. And they're my favorite targets. |
Vaerana Myshtana
ScIdama Endless Renaissance
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 18:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote: They aren't supposed to. As I said, LAVs are a harassment tool. The point is to get the Reds to keep their heads down so that the infantry advancing behind you has a better chance of opening a breach and routing them.
As I also said, this game is about choices. The driver can stop for a few seconds to let the gunner get some kills, but knowing that to do so puts his LAV at greater risk. Frankly, if you stop AT ALL in a Militia LAV, a Militia Swarm Launcher will cream it. Your only hope is to keep moving and interpose an obstacle before it gets too close. AV Grenades will do the same thing, but they at least require the thrower to be close enough to shoot back at.
It is also worth noting that there are multiple types of 20GJ blasters. You can upgrade these, based on your skills. If you want to have a better shot of using your LAV to kill infantry, skill into better LAVs and turrets.
There's no one way to use something (LAVs are a rpime example, since there are tons of different opinions on how they're used). IMO, LAVs are for quickly bringing heavy firepower into an engagement, then quickly escaping once it gets too hot. There is no chance to escape the engagement with AV grenades like this
Then, as I said- You are making the CHOICE to stop and become a turret for a few moments. Anti-Vehicle weapons work best against anything that is stationary, just like it's really easy to shoot a guy who stands still.
LAVs have very little shielding and armor (The "light" part of the name). They are not supposed to be safe when standing still anymore than I'm supposed to be safe standing still in my Scout suit.
If I choose to stop and aim a Sniper Rifle, I become a sitting duck. Same goes for your LAV. |
Kaiden Solian
Red Lightning Industries
8
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 19:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote: They aren't supposed to. As I said, LAVs are a harassment tool. The point is to get the Reds to keep their heads down so that the infantry advancing behind you has a better chance of opening a breach and routing them.
As I also said, this game is about choices. The driver can stop for a few seconds to let the gunner get some kills, but knowing that to do so puts his LAV at greater risk. Frankly, if you stop AT ALL in a Militia LAV, a Militia Swarm Launcher will cream it. Your only hope is to keep moving and interpose an obstacle before it gets too close. AV Grenades will do the same thing, but they at least require the thrower to be close enough to shoot back at.
It is also worth noting that there are multiple types of 20GJ blasters. You can upgrade these, based on your skills. If you want to have a better shot of using your LAV to kill infantry, skill into better LAVs and turrets.
There's no one way to use something (LAVs are a rpime example, since there are tons of different opinions on how they're used). IMO, LAVs are for quickly bringing heavy firepower into an engagement, then quickly escaping once it gets too hot. There is no chance to escape the engagement with AV grenades like this Then, as I said- You are making the CHOICE to stop and become a turret for a few moments. Anti-Vehicle weapons work best against anything that is stationary, just like it's really easy to shoot a guy who stands still. LAVs have very little shielding and armor (The "light" part of the name). They are not supposed to be safe when standing still anymore than I'm supposed to be safe standing still in my Scout suit. If I choose to stop and aim a Sniper Rifle, I become a sitting duck. Same goes for your LAV. Thats why the ones who run and gun survive. To quote a box blurb "Run.Think.Live.Shoot"
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KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 19:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I've noticed recently that LAVs driving anywhere near someone with even standard AV grenades is screwed. First, with my experience as an LAV driver, the range of AV grenades is roughly the same as small blaster range; that's OK, except people with AV grenades can never be prioritized as a special target, as you can't see that they have grenades. That is the strength of them, and I don't have a problem with that.
The problem I have is that in the short amount of time it takes someone to hit a vehicle with all 3 of their AV grenades (assuming they don't have a nanohive), a swarm launcher can only fire once, and forge guns are still charging. The difference is, a single standard forge round or swarm volley won't down a decent LAV, but the 3 standard AV grenades will, no problem. LAVs that are driving to let their gunner get a shot, rather than driving full speed, can't accelerate quickly enough to react to this (believe it or not).
I think AV grenades should actually be grenades- give them a fuse instead of letting them detonate on impact. HAVs have the health to survive this, so why not let LAVs use speed to their advantage? Having to time a grenade throw would also take more skill than just throwing all your homing impact grenades in rapid succession.
You see LAVs popping around you? How do you know haw they're fitted? Unmodified militia LAVs have only a crappy shield booster, no HP buffer whatsoever.
Are you having problems with your saga (or armor version)? Did you remember to fit extenders?
Well-fit LAV might be able to survive 3 non-packed AV grenades, which is a lot. Don't quite remember the numbers but I recall my saga had between 2000 and 3000 HPs.
AV grenade spam rate of fire is a bit too high though. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 19:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I've noticed recently that LAVs driving anywhere near someone with even standard AV grenades is screwed. First, with my experience as an LAV driver, the range of AV grenades is roughly the same as small blaster range; that's OK, except people with AV grenades can never be prioritized as a special target, as you can't see that they have grenades. That is the strength of them, and I don't have a problem with that.
The problem I have is that in the short amount of time it takes someone to hit a vehicle with all 3 of their AV grenades (assuming they don't have a nanohive), a swarm launcher can only fire once, and forge guns are still charging. The difference is, a single standard forge round or swarm volley won't down a decent LAV, but the 3 standard AV grenades will, no problem. LAVs that are driving to let their gunner get a shot, rather than driving full speed, can't accelerate quickly enough to react to this (believe it or not).
I think AV grenades should actually be grenades- give them a fuse instead of letting them detonate on impact. HAVs have the health to survive this, so why not let LAVs use speed to their advantage? Having to time a grenade throw would also take more skill than just throwing all your homing impact grenades in rapid succession. You see LAVs popping around you? How do you know haw they're fitted? Unmodified militia LAVs have only a crappy shield booster, no HP buffer whatsoever. Are you having problems with your saga (or armor version)? Did you remember to fit extenders? Well-fit LAV might be able to survive 3 non-packed AV grenades, which is a lot. Don't quite remember the numbers but I recall my saga had between 2000 and 3000 HPs. AV grenade spam rate of fire is a bit too high though. When did I say anything about other LAVs? Hell, I almost never see any other standard LAVs. My methana is plenty tanky, too. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 20:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:When did I say anything about other LAVs? Hell, I almost never see any other standard LAVs. My methana is plenty tanky, too.
Over here:
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I've noticed recently that LAVs driving anywhere near someone with even standard AV grenades is screwed.
At this stage about no-one has invested points in better LAVs, maybe only exception being BPO owners.
Barring any changes from last build, decent non-militia LAVs survive usually encounters with single AV grenade users. Against several, it's not reasonable to expect LAVs to withstand that. |
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