DUST Search - By the current logic that whiners are using

Cosorvin wrote:

James-5955 wrote:

Tau5 wrote:

James-5955 wrote:

Stating the obvious and telling people to "get good" isn't even a point of argument tbh. It's like the people who claimed that the grenades in the last build were fine, because they were grenades, and blew up, and were meant to hurt people. Yes, awesome logic. Swarm launchers a long time ago were also balanced I guess, you know, those are meant to blow up vehicles so why wouldn't it instant own you in a suit?

With that being said I don't feel that the HMG the way it is now is not game breaking at all, I could just see a small tweak being done to it.

Except the difference here is that the HMG does exactly what it is supposed to do for the Heavy role. It isn't an accidental "oh ****, that is actually impossible to avoid or counter!!" moment, it's more of a "this weapon was literally designed to do lots of damage and it is only usable by Heavy for a reason."

I agree it does do what it's supposed to for the heavy role. It completely decimates enemies at close range. Only problem that I see with it is that it also reaches out a bit far. I'd like to point out that when I talk about range, I don't mean accuracy. When I say I'd like to see them take some range off of the HMG for some damage, I'm really only asking them to shorten the range at which HMG bullets do damage. The same way that if you aim at an enemy with a shotgun from a certain distance, even if you're aimed dead on him you won't even scratch him. Forcing people to play in the effective range of their weapon. I feel the HMG is not restricted enough in that way, very close to it but not quite. I'd almost rather see them leave it alone because I doubt they'd make such a subtle change without ruining it.

For example, I assume you've used assault rifles. If you're like me and you like to play with snipers or take pop shots at enemies at long distances, you'll notice that after a certain range even if you shots land on your target it won't do any damage. I'd like to see CCP shorten that range for HMG by 20-30% (which isn't even much, plus you still got sharpshooter skill) so that people can't reach so far with it. Their cone of accuracy would remain the same but shooting enemies so far away wouldn't be possible, in return of course they're even more brutal in CQC.

That being said, most heavies wouldn't even realize this change and honestly it wouldn't change much. I'd rather see them make other changes and improvements before tweaking with the HMG at all, if they do. Bigger squads now CCP, please.

I don't think that would work. The HMG has its range because the heavy dropsuit makes you move so flippin slow that you have little mobility, Id prefer they take away the sharpshooter skill then reduce its range because if they do reduce your range you have to get closer up and you terribly slow making you fodder.


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James-5955 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.01.27 18:57:00 - [1] - Quote I find it funny that people aren't even open to the idea of shortening HMGs range and making it more devastating at short range. I play heavy on my secondary guy and always use the HMG, if you don't fix the range I don't care... I'll just continue hitting people from 40+ meters away and laughing. As a heavy I feel I shouldn't even be trying to engage enemies at that range, I should be trying to keep in close quarters and at least the edge of medium range. People need to remember that this is a beta, it's in beta so the developers can get it straightened out so it can be the way they want when it releases... this means making changes, but since so many people seem so against it, w/e. Doesn't effect me much, I feel the hit to HMGs range and giving it more raw power would only benefit heavy players that play the class properly. So yeah, whatever, doesn't matter to me but I thought I'd put in my 2 cents. I'll still play heavy regardless. Stating the obvious and telling people to "get good" isn't even a point of argument tbh. It's like the people who claimed that the grenades in the last build were fine, because they were grenades, and blew up, and were meant to hurt people. Yes, awesome logic. Swarm launchers a long time ago were also balanced I guess, you know, those are meant to blow up vehicles so why wouldn't it instant own you in a suit? Gameplay is a thing to worry about in games, and balance is essential to that. With that being said I don't feel that the HMG the way it is now is not game breaking at all, I could just see a small tweak being done to it. Knowing developers these days though they'd over do it. That's why I'd be fine with them leaving it alone, I'd rather see it be close to perfect than made worse. If they take away a small amount of something that isn't very relevant (range with HMG) to the class, and they give it a buff in an area that is (damage with HMG) then why would it even be considered a nerf? Almost sounds like a buff to me, especially considering the HMG shoots at 2000 RPM so a damage boost would be quite significant.. especially with damage skills and mods stacked on it lol. & before some ignoranus tells me to "get good", I usually win my 1v1's with heavies. I know how to take them on and I understand this game, and I also understand game balance and I don't understand how claiming that since something does damage and it kills, that there isn't anything wrong with it. Such a flawed way to look at it IMO, black and white, far left and far right. Lol why do I even bother, I know where the masses stand xD
James-5955 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.01.27 19:12:00 - [2] - Quote Tau5 wrote: James-5955 wrote: Stating the obvious and telling people to "get good" isn't even a point of argument tbh. It's like the people who claimed that the grenades in the last build were fine, because they were grenades, and blew up, and were meant to hurt people. Yes, awesome logic. Swarm launchers a long time ago were also balanced I guess, you know, those are meant to blow up vehicles so why wouldn't it instant own you in a suit? With that being said I don't feel that the HMG the way it is now is not game breaking at all, I could just see a small tweak being done to it. Except the difference here is that the HMG does exactly what it is supposed to do for the Heavy role. It isn't an accidental "oh ****, that is actually impossible to avoid or counter!!" moment, it's more of a "this weapon was literally designed to do lots of damage and it is only usable by Heavy for a reason." I agree it does do what it's supposed to for the heavy role. It completely decimates enemies at close range. Only problem that I see with it is that it also reaches out a bit far. I'd like to point out that when I talk about range, I don't mean accuracy. When I say I'd like to see them take some range off of the HMG for some damage, I'm really only asking them to shorten the range at which HMG bullets do damage. The same way that if you aim at an enemy with a shotgun from a certain distance, even if you're aimed dead on him you won't even scratch him. Forcing people to play in the effective range of their weapon. I feel the HMG is not restricted enough in that way, very close to it but not quite. I'd almost rather see them leave it alone because I doubt they'd make such a subtle change without ruining it. For example, I assume you've used assault rifles. If you're like me and you like to play with snipers or take pop shots at enemies at long distances, you'll notice that after a certain range even if you shots land on your target it won't do any damage. I'd like to see CCP shorten that range for HMG by 20-30% (which isn't even much, plus you still got sharpshooter skill) so that people can't reach so far with it. Their cone of accuracy would remain the same but shooting enemies so far away wouldn't be possible, in return of course they're even more brutal in CQC. That being said, most heavies wouldn't even realize this change and honestly it wouldn't change much. I'd rather see them make other changes and improvements before tweaking with the HMG at all, if they do. Bigger squads now CCP, please.
James-5955 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.01.27 20:13:00 - [3] - Quote Cosorvin wrote: James-5955 wrote: Tau5 wrote: James-5955 wrote: Stating the obvious and telling people to "get good" isn't even a point of argument tbh. It's like the people who claimed that the grenades in the last build were fine, because they were grenades, and blew up, and were meant to hurt people. Yes, awesome logic. Swarm launchers a long time ago were also balanced I guess, you know, those are meant to blow up vehicles so why wouldn't it instant own you in a suit? With that being said I don't feel that the HMG the way it is now is not game breaking at all, I could just see a small tweak being done to it. Except the difference here is that the HMG does exactly what it is supposed to do for the Heavy role. It isn't an accidental "oh ****, that is actually impossible to avoid or counter!!" moment, it's more of a "this weapon was literally designed to do lots of damage and it is only usable by Heavy for a reason." I agree it does do what it's supposed to for the heavy role. It completely decimates enemies at close range. Only problem that I see with it is that it also reaches out a bit far. I'd like to point out that when I talk about range, I don't mean accuracy. When I say I'd like to see them take some range off of the HMG for some damage, I'm really only asking them to shorten the range at which HMG bullets do damage. The same way that if you aim at an enemy with a shotgun from a certain distance, even if you're aimed dead on him you won't even scratch him. Forcing people to play in the effective range of their weapon. I feel the HMG is not restricted enough in that way, very close to it but not quite. I'd almost rather see them leave it alone because I doubt they'd make such a subtle change without ruining it. For example, I assume you've used assault rifles. If you're like me and you like to play with snipers or take pop shots at enemies at long distances, you'll notice that after a certain range even if you shots land on your target it won't do any damage. I'd like to see CCP shorten that range for HMG by 20-30% (which isn't even much, plus you still got sharpshooter skill) so that people can't reach so far with it. Their cone of accuracy would remain the same but shooting enemies so far away wouldn't be possible, in return of course they're even more brutal in CQC. That being said, most heavies wouldn't even realize this change and honestly it wouldn't change much. I'd rather see them make other changes and improvements before tweaking with the HMG at all, if they do. Bigger squads now CCP, please. I don't think that would work. The HMG has its range because the heavy dropsuit makes you move so flippin slow that you have little mobility, Id prefer they take away the sharpshooter skill then reduce its range because if they do reduce your range you have to get closer up and you terribly slow making you fodder. That's true. If you're playing a heavy you should probably be grouped with other people. Playing a heavy I feel like I could do just fine if they only did a 20% nerf to the range, I would still be able to hit enemies up to 40-50 meters away. I think that's still far enough for heavies. On most maps if I'm playing heavy with HMG I'll stick around the center area, usually A/B/C and there 40-50 meters of range is plenty to work with, I could do fine with 30 being my max range.. usually don't engage any further than that so I'm not spotted anyway, I prefer them to know my presence after they're dead ^^. In other cases, I think an LAV should be involved.
James-5955 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.01.27 22:29:00 - [4] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Belzeebub Santana wrote: Sorry but skipped over everything from after the OP... Don't have much problems with the way heavies are right now except for the fact they can drive. The free LAV makes the movement speed of any heavy non-factor when traveling to objective to objective. Make it so they can be a passenger but not a driver, make them work as a team if a heavy needs to travel over the map, not sure if this should be the same for tanks and DSs but that my .2 isk on balancing heavies. Vehicle popcorn? 1 AV grenade and heavy is damaged and a few SMG bullets or HMG bullets and death taxi is deadsville. Jeeps equal free kills so I need more jeeps being used. Well, if you happen to have a AV grenade on you.. Or else get mowed down lol. My usual route with heavies is just cooking a grenade and moving back while zig zagging, throw the grenade at their feet and aim at the head.
James-5955 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2013.01.27 22:42:00 - [5] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: James-5955 wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Belzeebub Santana wrote: Sorry but skipped over everything from after the OP... Don't have much problems with the way heavies are right now except for the fact they can drive. The free LAV makes the movement speed of any heavy non-factor when traveling to objective to objective. Make it so they can be a passenger but not a driver, make them work as a team if a heavy needs to travel over the map, not sure if this should be the same for tanks and DSs but that my .2 isk on balancing heavies. Vehicle popcorn? 1 AV grenade and heavy is damaged and a few SMG bullets or HMG bullets and death taxi is deadsville. Jeeps equal free kills so I need more jeeps being used. Well, if you happen to have a AV grenade on you.. Or else get mowed down lol. My usual route with heavies is just cooking a grenade and moving back while zig zagging, throw the grenade at their feet and aim at the head. Every fit has AV grenades since bullets do the rest for just suits. Yeah I suppose that would work for a heavy. Being an assault, heavies are usually my biggest threat & locus grenades make them easier to manage 1 vs 1. Sure I can do damage with bullets as well but I can cook a grenade while being out of the heavies LOS, pop out for a second and toss it and have him 1/2+ dead. In my experience it's a lot less dangerous and works out a lot more often than engaging them with bullets only.