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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.26 19:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dust 514 needs a post-tutorial training program. While other players and better tutorials help players wander around into the game better. There is very little to further a player's performance on the field in any form of training.
2.0 was created after a discussion with [STAR]CharginMoose (division of ISD volunteers that helps new players and events in eve and soon dust) who has been influential in developing tutorials and NPE experiences in Eve. The end goal is to same, increase player field performance. The new goal is to reduce 'achievement system-itis'. So on that note, NO TROPHY SYSTEM INVOLVED.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Certificates
While Eve Online's system fits to that game like a glove there are a few issues with it such as scatter brain training, doesn't improve a player's performance, and is still not a good 'teaching' tool and slightly falls short of being a 'guide tool' as well..
Dust 514 if it copied Eve's system would most likely suffer just as much. So addressing issues is in order.
Welcome To Dust 514 Certificates
When a player get into the game for the first time a new ! indicator will lead players to the welcome to the certificate page.
From here the player is given a quick rundown on the function and purpose of certificates can be done by text or video tutorial.
Once this page is dismissed the default page will be current selected certification progress or selection of a new goal if none are set.
When starting out the player will be presented with various certification packages with short descriptions more tailored towards roles, function, weapons, and platforms. Upon selecting a predefined role (or making a custom one) and from here a tree populates with the various levels of the certificate and all the criteria needed to obtain the certificate.
Every time the player comes back here they can see how far up the tree they are. They can browse the tree and get detail on any certificate or goal in it and could see even additional tress that part of the certificate or cert is a part of and could possibly branch out further or trim limbs even change end goals as they see fit. They can also quickly access the means to achieve goal points such as market, skill sheet, or battle finder.
Unlike Eve Online where its skill book level reliant, Dust 514's could take a bit from using active components to train players on proper use of the system, vehicle, weapon, or equipment. Greater emphasis on doing the normal while less emphasis on accomplishing the odd, weird, near impossible.
Another component I wanted to bring in to make FPS players from other games more at home is a reward for completing a certificate system. This is a very controversial part however as they may encourage scatter training instead of focus however that's how players are in general. So rewards should be considered, tweaked, adjusted and more focused on continued training than achievement like system. So ultimately no special issue gear or paint will ever be given out though certs All items are buy-able from market for isk or time. The other idea I had was for an AURUM component for a permanent ($5 price or less) certification+ program to double up the rewards would help generate some funds for Dust 514.
Plasma Rifle Operator Basic
This certificate represents a basic level of competence in handling Plasma Rifles. It certifies that the holder is able to use Plasma Rifles and not shoot his own foot off and generally point it in the direction of the enemy hoping for results. While not much, it is a start in the skills needed to be a front line soldier.
[]Train Weaponry I
[]Train Plasma Rifle I
[]Train Light Weapons Capacity I
[]Kill 25 Mercenaries with 'any' Plasma Rifle
*Unlocks Plasma Rifle Operator Improved Critria
*Unlocks Plasma Rifle Marksman Basic Criteria
!Rewards 25 Plasma Rifles
!Rewards 1000 SP
Completes the Criteria Goal of Front Line Solider Basic Certificate
Completes the Criteria Goal of Plasma Rifle Mastery Basic
Plasma Rifle Marksman Basic Level
This certificate represents a basic level of accuracy when using Plasma Rifles. It certifies that the holder can hit a broad side of a barn at least.
[]Kill 25 Mercenaries with Headshots
[]Kill 50 Mercenaries at Optimal Weapon Range
[]Complete 3 matches while maintaining 15% accuracy.
*Unlocks Plasma Rifle Marksman Improved Criteria
!Rewards 25 Plasma Rifle Green-dot Scopes
!Rewards 1500 SP
Completes the Criteria Goal of Plasma Rifle Mastery Basic
Plasma Rifle Operator Improved Level
This certificate represents an experienced level of competence in handling Plasma Rifles. It certifies that the holder is able to use Plasma Rifles to successfully keep other mercenaries heads down and regret being out in the open with no cover. An essential skill needed to be a front line soldier.
[]Train Weaponry II
[]Train Plasma Rifle II
[]Train Light Weapons Capacity II
[]Train Light Weapons Marksman I
[]Train Light Weapons Reload I
[]Train Light Weapon Upgrades I
[]Kill 50 Mercenaries with 'any' Plasma Rifle
*Unlocks Plasma Rifle Operator Advanced Criteria
*Unlocks Plasma Rifle Tactical Plasma Rifle Basic Criteria
*Unlocks Plasma Rifle Burst Plasma Rifle Basic Criteria
*Unlocks Plasma Rifle Breach Plasma Rifle Basic Criteria
! Rewards 15 each Tactical, Breach, Burst & Assault Rifles.
! Rewards 2500 SP
! Rewards 250 copies of Snow Tiger Paint scheme for Plasma Rifles
Completes the Criteria Goal of Front Line Soldier Improved Certificate
Completes the Criteria Goal of Plasma Rifle Mastery Improved |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.26 19:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Overall On Rewards my stances are as is
BPOs
The idea is to help new players sample things as they get better. 25 copies of usable gear is sufficient to pick up and use and get used to. Sometimes a whole suite of equipment is issued to allow experimentation. None the less this should last most players 2-5 fights, more than enough to learn it on the field. So overall I am very adamant against BPO issuing.
Meta Level
The other idea is to not turn this into push button get gold system. Its supposed to great encouraging more game play styles such as giving players weapon variants beyond meta 1 is counter to the goal it may also force players to wrongfully spend SP into rewards they may not like using.
Isk Rewards
In all honesty and realistically players would be paying for certifications, but alas don't need more artifical entry barriers if possible. If the player is that strapped for cash they can sell the items and being at meta 1 they're not going to get much. So overall I am against isk rewards, and rather give out items such as skill books.
Uniques/Rares
The idea is to train soldiers on standard equipment, not special items that cannot obtained via market so they can buy more and continue to progress. So I am very against the idea of 'bragging' rights gear or paint even because I don't want the system to turn into acheviment grind. So mostly I am very much against the idea of 'special issue.'
Skill Points
SP rewards are low in the example just to be a carrot on a stick and a further push towards a training direction and serve no other purpose. They're minimal enough that you cant get even get a lvl 1x1 out of them but this can cause scatter training. This becomes a hard table to balance overall and may just not be included and I am willing to see this go.
Paint Rewards
I think to alleviate the whole ordeal the paint awarded would be just for fun and easily re-buy-able instead of something special and unobtainable. It increases awareness of the aurum side of the store and may encourage sales. I feel that awarding normally aurum purchasable paint is healthy bonus without being too 'cheap'. Offering large number of these paints also encourages use (where as the 25 quafe suits are very much not going to get used.)
Item Rewards
Item rewards I feel should be tailored for training, like 'now that you are used to the basic assault rifle, here try some of these flavors out!' and issue the soldier a few tactical burst and breech variants. Or 'oh you're training to be accurate?'here have a few green-dot scopes. I do not want to give items for the sole reason of just because which is why the higher certificate levels don't offer these rewards but offers paint instead and usually if the item is awarded from the certificate they already have the skills to equip it right then and there soon as the certificate 'dings'. Vehicle side I am more cosidering offering suits and modules instead of the hull base. Would be awful if mcc certs gave a free MCC away. Where offering a command suit, a requirement to sit in an mcc controls is more appropirate.
About AURUM
Dust 514 needs funding, I saw opportunity and offered it via x2 the rewards from certificates. Those who do the math would probably figure out that 5$ is probably overpriced, but this buy in is future proof (IE later on they add in MTAC certificates and Cert+ will still apply) also awarding some free aurum swag is additional advertising for the store front. While it seems odd to as a player to desire paying this game I would like to see this game continue growing and that takes money. It may be also possible to shove in Cert+ as a bonus for buy a starter package ($50 usd) among full suite of milita bpos and among other things. The $5 price tag I think was appropirate but who knows. However I truely want the pernmanet option over 'subscription' option because its going to take forever to max out the certificate system, probably just as long as the Skill Point system will and thats going to be alot of nickle and diming cheapness there if its per month.
Teaching verses Achieving
Continuing on one thing I want to avoid is making this feel like an achievement system and more of a teaching system. Practice in Dust 514 does makes perfect which is why kill x mercenaries is still in it for weapons. However here are some examples of Teach vs Achievement
Using Laser Rifles at their optimal range to kill a mercenary vs Destroy an LAV with a Laser Rifle.
Use a Forge Gun to strike a vehicle's weak spot and destroy it vs Head Shot a Gallente Scout suit with a Forge Gun
Use a Grenade to kill a player behind cover vs Kill 3 people with a single grenade
Use a Sniper Rifle to Kill a player shooting a team mate. vs Use a sniper rifle to snipe out a passenger of a dropship.
Obtain 100 Flight Hours in a Dropship vs Squash 10 Infantry with the bottom of your dropship.
Safely Revive 10 mercenaries and get them to safety (mercenary doesn't die in 5 seconds of revive) vs Revive 100 mercenaries
Capture all Null cannons on the map and hold them to end of match vs Complete a Skirmish Fight without dying.
Your team finishes an Ambush Match with 50% of clones remaining. vs Kill the entire opposing team without dying.
Use your armor systems to survive 5x more damage than you normally would have taken vs don't die a whole match.
As you can see these teach vs acheivement much more focused on normal use of the gear, expected use of the gear, and getting good with it, instead of some insanely stupid/silly/impossible feat like get three headshots with 1 bullet. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.26 19:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
GarryKE wrote:I'd quite like to see this too. It would help by giving you a linear plan of progression. Alongside the certificates should be a paragraph, like in EVE such as: Quote:This certificate represents a basic level of competence in handling light weapons. It certifies that the holder is able to use Assault Rifles, the Mass Driver, Plasma Shotguns, and Sniper Rifles. The holder is aware that you just point and click. This is a good skillset if you're dabbling in the Assault role. Which gives a good idea to new players on weapon types and which role and dropsuit they accompany.
stealing your paragraph. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.26 19:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
S Park Finner wrote:I like this idea a lot but I wonder about the balance between meaningful performance instrumenting the game to gather the information.
Kill 50 mercs is pretty clear.
Kill 25 mercs behind cover could be a challenge to record even though it makes more sense to me as proof of real skill.
Is this a real concern?
Mass Driver Marksman Basic
Kill 50 mercs
Kill 25 mercs behind cover
Fixed :D |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.26 20:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
A few examples of Certificates Types
Logistics Master Certificate
This certificate represents unmatched level of competence in being a facilitator of war. It certifies that the holder is a true 'Logi-bro' though and though. Showing his squad mates in helpful nanties to ensure they can keep fighting in the most desperate of situations. Proven quite capable of using repair tools and deploy-able equipment.
Demolition Expert Certificate
This certificate represents an expert level of competence in handling explosive devices. It certifies that the holder is able to use explosives to blow everything up but himself. If you need something removed this man is your man. This is a required skill set for any self respecting commando. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.27 20:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Version 2.0 up, second post changed up and wording significantly arranged differently. Overall idea is the same but emphasis has been applied to certain areas. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.28 14:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I really like this idea. I think that you could go one step further and tie PS3 trophy rewards to these certs. It was pointed out to me that you wouldn't want to directly tie this to certain certs (free intel regarding what a character has speced into), so maybe you could make it to where reaching milestones like first 10 certs give you trophy and the like.
That is a more reasonable trophy I can agree with.
Certified
10
Over Certified
100
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.28 14:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Question: What are War Points?
points for performing well in a battle. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.29 13:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:KAGEHOSHI- GÇÅ @CCP_CmdrWang Great thread on education. passive+active certificate system http://tinyurl.com/asju4gw Iron Wolf Saber. I'll stop spamming you now 4h CCP_CmdrWang GÇÅ @KAGEHOSHI1 Great ideas, we are planning something similar. Just need to sort out the logistics for it.
Well that's nice to see I wonder what portions they're going to use if they decide to be inspired. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.29 17:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:I always thought certificates would be very welcome in Dust as they were very VERY usefull to me in EVE. Offering some small rewards is a good idea even though i believe it wouldnt even be needed so people take interest in them. Another thing that would be very very usefull is some kind of "scripted" ground tutorials. Take players into various situations in short scenarized battles against rogue drones. It will allow to explain basic stuff (how to medic, how to give orders as squad lead, how to get an OB, how to call in a vehicle, how to use weapons (optimal range, laser trick) etc...) Those could also provide some SP as a motivation. Maybe the SP amount given could be raised over time when the average SP progression gets higher and higher. I 'll add some more thoughts on your certificates after i've red the whole thing 
I think it would better if there was a 'training' room for this instead. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.29 23:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Valmar Shadereaver wrote:seems like a good system it wuild also improve finding recruit's that are actualy trying to do there role's well bye checking there claimed certificat's so you know k that guy is a logistic instead of having to ask after acpeting his aplication wat role he has and what lvl equipment
It also removes some of the questions 'wtf how is this guy pwning me so bad?' Look at his pubic view able certs and see all this skill sets are focused on tank and gank. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.01.31 03:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Velvet Overkill wrote:This will be a good way make progressing through this game feel more rewarding, worthwhile, and fun. Lots of people will appreciate this kinda thing.
My thoughts exactly. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.02.01 02:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Still brilliant
Thank you |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.02.02 01:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Any suggestions out there? |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.02.15 13:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bumping to bring back for another round of feedback after getting link posted by ccp twitting. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.02.15 17:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah just talked with a player yesterday that didn't know the scrambler pistol has the highest head shot bonus. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3141
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Posted - 2013.03.18 19:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:This would help with alot of the Headaches of starting DUST.
+5
Bruce Lee Approved
Thank you I just hope the entire system gets designed proper to fully encourage proper weapon use. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
5208
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Posted - 2013.06.16 05:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Devs already read this one though. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6700
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Posted - 2013.07.29 10:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't feel like updating this >< |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6915
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Posted - 2013.08.03 23:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well... I don't know what else I can add most of it is reliant on ccp's own designs. |
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