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King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
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Posted - 2013.01.26 06:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
anyone with reasonable aim or a KB+M and a laser rifle could outperform any weapon at medium range. even on my armor tanked assault suits i was getting cut in half in a matter of seconds, not possible to aim and shoot and out DPS a good laser rifle user.
at the very least something had to be done, but it seems like CCP may be cutting the balls off it completely, which we don't want either. I would be perfectly okay with a damage nerf, or a range nerf, or overheat nerf, but not all three at the same time. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 06:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lord Crases wrote:King Kobrah wrote:anyone with reasonable aim or a KB+M and a laser rifle could outperform any weapon at medium range. even on my armor tanked assault suits i was getting cut in half in a matter of seconds, not possible to aim and shoot and out DPS a good laser rifle user.
at the very least something had to be done, but it seems like CCP may be cutting the balls off it completely, which we don't want either. I would be perfectly okay with a damage nerf, or a range nerf, or overheat nerf, but not all three at the same time. Your not supposed to be able to deal with a laser at that range. Your bullet spread is to great from that far. Just get in close by circling around. You'll kill me. considering i was using a tactical assault rifle with a complex damage modifier, yes, i should be able to kill someone from that range fairy effectively. if at any time you get stuck in an area with little cover and nowhere to run once you duck back, it's pretty much over..with other weapons i still have a fighting chance. maybe adding some sort of recoil would help balance things out. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 06:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lord Crases wrote:King Kobrah wrote:Lord Crases wrote:King Kobrah wrote:anyone with reasonable aim or a KB+M and a laser rifle could outperform any weapon at medium range. even on my armor tanked assault suits i was getting cut in half in a matter of seconds, not possible to aim and shoot and out DPS a good laser rifle user.
at the very least something had to be done, but it seems like CCP may be cutting the balls off it completely, which we don't want either. I would be perfectly okay with a damage nerf, or a range nerf, or overheat nerf, but not all three at the same time. Your not supposed to be able to deal with a laser at that range. Your bullet spread is to great from that far. Just get in close by circling around. You'll kill me. considering i was using a tactical assault rifle with a complex damage modifier, yes, i should be able to kill someone from that range fairy effectively. if at any time you get stuck in an area with little cover and nowhere to run once you duck back, it's pretty much over..with other weapons i still have a fighting chance. maybe adding some sort of recoil would help balance things out. what if it was a sniper and they had the ability to one shot one in less time. Would you have felt better if you only got them to half health before they blew you head off? if it were a sniper rifle, i would be perfectly okay with that. he can only fire one shot at a time, and he made it count, he earned his kill. laser rifles can just sit there, wait, hold down R1 when your elbow pops out from around cover, and the next thing you know 90% of your shields and armor just melted.
i honestly think adding in some kind of recoil may be the best option here, if it's more difficult to line up the shot and hold it on your target, it has every right to do high damage. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 07:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vance Alken wrote:Skihids wrote:King Kobrah wrote:
i honestly think adding in some kind of recoil may be the best option here, if it's more difficult to line up the shot and hold it on your target, it has every right to do high damage.
I know a lot of folks don't care for reality, but you do recognize the absurdity of a light beam inducing recoil, don't you? That's kind of what makes the laser rifle a distinct weapon rather than just another skin on the AR. But the only way to make a balanced game is to make everything like an AR, just look at CoD! (asymmetric balance? what's that?) because a recoil-less weapon that does high, steady damage from long range is a great idea in a FPS, right? pretty obvious there needed to be an adjustment, and one will rightfully be made. how bad they nerf it is really the question here. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 07:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:King Kobrah wrote:because a recoil-less weapon that does high, steady damage from long range is a great idea in a FPS, right? It is when the weapon is easily countered by a Sniper Rifle at even longer range than its "high damage" can be used, or by any other weapon if you simply do the same thing as you do against snipers and GET IN CLOSE where the damage is massively reduced. ANY weapon is countered by a sniper rifle at long range...that's how it should be. saying "LOL JUST GIT CLOSE" doesn't make it any less of an overpowered weapon. it is by far the strongest weapon at mid range unless you're some kind of savant with the mass driver or forge gun. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 08:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:King Kobrah wrote:ANY weapon is countered by a sniper rifle at long range...that's how it should be. saying "LOL JUST GIT CLOSE" doesn't make it any less of an overpowered weapon. it is by far the strongest weapon at mid range unless you're some kind of savant with the mass driver or forge gun. In the long ends of mid-range, the Laser Rifle is MEANT to dominate. Just like the Sniper Rifle dominates at extreme range, and just like the Shotgun and HMG dominate in CQC. If you're in the closer end of mid-range, AR fire should out-DPS the LR, and you only need to be decent, not amazing, with your Mass Driver. SMGs can damage race LRs in decently close range - but outside of their preferred CQC range. i've taken down both HMGs and shotguns at close range with a tactical assault rifle, but if i go up against someone even half decent with a LR anywhere close to mid range, it's already over. it dominates it's range TOO HARD and makes it almost impossible for any other weapon to compete. regardless if it's garbage up close, it's still way too OP at medium range compared to all other weapons at their respective ranges. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 08:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:King Kobrah wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:King Kobrah wrote:ANY weapon is countered by a sniper rifle at long range...that's how it should be. saying "LOL JUST GIT CLOSE" doesn't make it any less of an overpowered weapon. it is by far the strongest weapon at mid range unless you're some kind of savant with the mass driver or forge gun. In the long ends of mid-range, the Laser Rifle is MEANT to dominate. Just like the Sniper Rifle dominates at extreme range, and just like the Shotgun and HMG dominate in CQC. If you're in the closer end of mid-range, AR fire should out-DPS the LR, and you only need to be decent, not amazing, with your Mass Driver. SMGs can damage race LRs in decently close range - but outside of their preferred CQC range. i've taken down both HMGs and shotguns at close range with a tactical assault rifle, but if i go up against someone even half decent with a LR anywhere close to mid range, it's already over. it dominates it's range TOO HARD and makes it almost impossible for any other weapon to compete. regardless if it's garbage up close, it's still way too OP at medium range compared to all other weapons at their respective ranges. midrange is the only range where it's worth anything whatsoever. in my experience it's pretty effective into the longer ranges as well. regardless, it dominates mid range too hard, other weapons should at least have something of a chance in an open firefight. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 08:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:King Kobrah wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:King Kobrah wrote:ANY weapon is countered by a sniper rifle at long range...that's how it should be. saying "LOL JUST GIT CLOSE" doesn't make it any less of an overpowered weapon. it is by far the strongest weapon at mid range unless you're some kind of savant with the mass driver or forge gun. In the long ends of mid-range, the Laser Rifle is MEANT to dominate. Just like the Sniper Rifle dominates at extreme range, and just like the Shotgun and HMG dominate in CQC. If you're in the closer end of mid-range, AR fire should out-DPS the LR, and you only need to be decent, not amazing, with your Mass Driver. SMGs can damage race LRs in decently close range - but outside of their preferred CQC range. i've taken down both HMGs and shotguns at close range with a tactical assault rifle, but if i go up against someone even half decent with a LR anywhere close to mid range, it's already over. it dominates it's range TOO HARD and makes it almost impossible for any other weapon to compete. regardless if it's garbage up close, it's still way too OP at medium range compared to all other weapons at their respective ranges. I've dominated Laser Rifle users at the closer end of mid-range with a Toxin and Level 3 SMG Ops. Doesn't prove that they're underpowered any more than your examples of getting dominated prove they're OP. You're bad at countering them for some reason. I don't know what that reason is, but apparently you suck at fighting against Laser Rifles. What Tactical AR have you been using? What Laser Rifle was the opponent using? What applicable skills did each of you have equipped? What suits were each you you using? The weapon is rarely the only factor involved. Well, I've managed to maintain a 2.4 kill to death ratio playing solo 100% of the time, i'd like to think I have a good shot and know what I'm doing. honestly have no idea what he was using, i just remember seeing a scout rip 3/4ths my health away from me before i could even line up a shot. trying to play duck and cover games was impossible because his weapon has no recoil. being the stubborn man that i am, i refused to come out of cover and be killed by such a gimmicky weapon, so i didn't catch the name on it. i mean honestly, an unbroken stream of high damage energy with no recoil that does better damage at mid-long range? if the DPS wasn't so ridiculous I think it would be fine. maybe if someone could pull some concrete numbers and compare damage we could have a better discussion on it. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 08:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:King Kobrah wrote: in my experience it's pretty effective into the longer ranges as well. regardless, it dominates mid range too hard, other weapons should at least have something of a chance in an open firefight.
Me vs laser = coin toss. You haven't had fun until that fatsuit you almost killed sneaks up behind you (because you weren't paying attention to the twinkie-eating fat kid that always shows on radar) and ventilates you with an HMG, or more obnoxiously, a forge gun from five feet away. maybe i'm just really unlucky running into super high skilled LR users? i don't even remember them being much of an issue in the closed beta. still seems like they do a disproportionate amount of damage at their range compared to all other weapons. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 08:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:King Kobrah wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:King Kobrah wrote: in my experience it's pretty effective into the longer ranges as well. regardless, it dominates mid range too hard, other weapons should at least have something of a chance in an open firefight.
Me vs laser = coin toss. You haven't had fun until that fatsuit you almost killed sneaks up behind you (because you weren't paying attention to the twinkie-eating fat kid that always shows on radar) and ventilates you with an HMG, or more obnoxiously, a forge gun from five feet away. maybe i'm just really unlucky running into super high skilled LR users? i don't even remember them being much of an issue in the closed beta. still seems like they do a disproportionate amount of damage at their range compared to all other weapons. you respond to lasers by getting behind cover, and maneuvering to get close. Inside 20 meters a laser's damage is the rough equivalent of a five year old attacking you with a damp sock. unless you're a scout, because your defenses are pathetic. it's much more difficult to get close to someone who knows you're already there. if there's a good bit of open space between the both of you, there's pretty much 0 chance you're killing that LR, unless you plan on going around the entire map, in which case you'll probably get blown up or shot up with something else, or that LR is long gone. i'm sure this is all easily accounted for with a cohesive team and cover fire, but i've been rolling solo the entire time. |
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King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
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Posted - 2013.01.26 08:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:King Kobrah wrote:Well, I've managed to maintain a 2.4 kill to death ratio playing solo 100% of the time, i'd like to think I have a good shot and know what I'm doing. honestly have no idea what he was using, i just remember seeing a scout rip 3/4ths my health away from me before i could even line up a shot. trying to play duck and cover games was impossible because his weapon has no recoil. being the stubborn man that i am, i refused to come out of cover and be killed by such a gimmicky weapon, so i didn't catch the name on it. i mean honestly, an unbroken stream of high damage energy with no recoil that does better damage at mid-long range? if the DPS wasn't so ridiculous I think it would be fine. maybe if someone could pull some concrete numbers and compare damage we could have a better discussion on it. You seem to be forgetting the fact that Lasers also have MASSIVELY reduced damage when they first start firing. They only pick up real damage after heating up for a few seconds. You can kill them before they're doing real damage if they aren't coming straight out of firing at someone else. Yeah, but all it takes is that couple of seconds to cut someone in half. LRs kill me faster at long range than HMGs do at close range, it's just too much IMO, not to mention how they can rip the shields off vehicles. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 08:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:King Kobrah wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:King Kobrah wrote:Well, I've managed to maintain a 2.4 kill to death ratio playing solo 100% of the time, i'd like to think I have a good shot and know what I'm doing. honestly have no idea what he was using, i just remember seeing a scout rip 3/4ths my health away from me before i could even line up a shot. trying to play duck and cover games was impossible because his weapon has no recoil. being the stubborn man that i am, i refused to come out of cover and be killed by such a gimmicky weapon, so i didn't catch the name on it. i mean honestly, an unbroken stream of high damage energy with no recoil that does better damage at mid-long range? if the DPS wasn't so ridiculous I think it would be fine. maybe if someone could pull some concrete numbers and compare damage we could have a better discussion on it. You seem to be forgetting the fact that Lasers also have MASSIVELY reduced damage when they first start firing. They only pick up real damage after heating up for a few seconds. You can kill them before they're doing real damage if they aren't coming straight out of firing at someone else. Yeah, but all it takes is that couple of seconds to cut someone in half. LRs kill me faster at long range than HMGs do at close range, it's just too much IMO, not to mention how they can rip the shields off vehicles. A couple of seconds is longer than it takes for a good AR user in the closer edges of mid-range, and longer than a Sniper Rifle takes at longer range than the Laser, and longer than my Shotgun takes even against some Heavies in CQC range. Also, check my edit. What i'm trying to say is no weapon has a fighting chance against a LR at it's ideal range. every other weapon, at it's ideal range (except snipers for obvious reasons) can still potentially lose in a firefight. the LR is imbalanced in that aspect. even if i had dropped to a knee and peppered him with headshots robo-cop style, with 100% accuracy, i still doubt my chances of survival against a LR. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 08:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:King Kobrah wrote: it's much more difficult to get close to someone who knows you're already there. if there's a good bit of open space between the both of you, there's pretty much 0 chance you're killing that LR, unless you plan on going around the entire map, in which case you'll probably get blown up or shot up with something else, or that LR is long gone. i'm sure this is all easily accounted for with a cohesive team and cover fire, but i've been rolling solo the entire time.
this is your first mistake. Seriously. get into a squad and stick together. Solo players are dogmeat against anything resembling a coordinated counterattack. Lasers can only hit one person at a time. Even an AR can hit multiple people spooning together. Think about it. i'm that one solo guy on the other team who still manages to go 20-5 against a well-coordinated team despite the rest of his team going sub 1:1 i'm not entire sure on overheating, but i feel like a LR could cut down 2-3 guys if they were all in a close group, especially because of it's increasing damage as it heats up. |
King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.26 09:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
yes, i understand they're useless at close range, but so are sniper rifles, and ARs, shotugns, HMGs, and other weapons are entirely useless outside a certain range. each weapon has their effective range and uses, but inside their effective ranges, LRs do a disproportionate amount of DPS compared to all other weapons, especially considering it can do that DPS at a long range with zero recoil.
i can only imagine how horrific these things are in a highly organized game, if a LR user sits in a well protected group of squadmates, you'll never get close to take him out. you better hope he gets sniped or is stupid and stays out of cover for too long. put 2 of these things on an objective with some close range support and you're going to really rustle some jimmies. |
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