DUST Search - Skill progression: Is 8 months too short?

Hunter Junko wrote:

well i would have a few ideas, but alright, here goes:

1. building your own dropsuit.

this could be the advanced levels of the core skills :Combat engineering, nanocircutry, shield systems, down to the weapon slots.
utilizing the idea by sake monster. we could reach a point in which we can buy the core components of making a dropsuit and make our own to suit our needs, we all know what a heavy can do, but what if we could have the armor of a heavy with the adaptability of an assault suit? or the characteristics of a logistics suit with the mobility of a scout? take customization to a new level. these suits can only be used in null sec warfare when it is truly implemented when we are going to spend alot of money towards attacking-defending a goal in mind.
make it into a high SP skill, like DropSuit construction 10x

2. terrain/ combat Specialization

no matter how good you are, and or the latest gear you can buy. its useless without taking in account the various forms of engagement and the various terrain in ALL of new eden. since we are fighting in temperate planet like our own, imagine the countless tactics and strategies needed for every unique form of engagement? we could add a new skill system called awareness points. these points could be added to our dropsuits during the time we have in the war room. the awareness points can be made to give a slight increase in effectiveness in a particular method of combat, on a certain form of terrain in one battle.when the battle ends, the awareness points are 90% refunded to the character. the rest being converted into SP

im going to give out a few examples, to make somewhat of a point in this system.

Mountains, high place, advantageous positions and possibly a haven for long range warfare
5% damage increase in usage of long range weaponry,
8% decrease in close range combat.
6% increase in scan precision
4% decrease of profile dampening.

forest, lots of cover, normal amount of clearing, perfect for Close quarters to medium range combat
5% increase in shield resistance
4% decrease in scan radius
3% damage increase in explosive-incendiary type ammunition.

Plasma Storms, a commander's worst nightmare. low visibility, high gale force winds, and electronics severely weakened. this is a walk through hell.
8% increased damage resistance against plasma-based weapons.
10% decrease in shield recharge rate
5% increase in profle dampening
9% decrease in nanocircutry

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Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.24 20:44:00 - [1] - Quote With the current skill progression, we are looking at no more then 8 months until we are as strong at any roll that one can be... This is disappointing for a game that is supposed to have a 7 year shelf life. I have attempted to make people aware and proactive in getting more to invest in, here. In my many attempts to revive the thread i have lost patience with attempting to do so on the general forums. Please let me know what you think. Via this thread on feed back and requests.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.24 20:44:00 - [2] - Quote First Post While i know the grand majority of weapons, skills, dropsuits, vehicles and modules are not yet in game it feels as though skill progression for specialized roles has been simplified and condensed a bit too far. Skills that feel like they are missing, for currently available gear. -Role bonus skills for dropsuit class to complement Empire specific specialization (IE Logistics Dropsuit Operation , or Assault Dropsuit Proficiency) -Empire specific weapon specialization for all weapon categories (IE Amarr Assault Rifle, Minmatar Forge Gun) -Empire specific hacking protocols -Role bonus skills for vehicle class to complement Empire specific specialization (IE HAV Operation, or Dropship Proficiency) What I am not saying, is what the role bonus should be. If the specialization should entail anything beyond simply making unique equipment available. Or that my way is the only solution. Not even that CCP doesn't have something planed already to address this. What I am saying, is that a dedicated role specialization investment should entail a path lasting more then 7-9 months. (~14.5-18.5mil SP for one weapon, dropsuit, shields, armor and fitting to level 5.) 1 month for every weapon beyond, assuming your regularly capping your active SP income. Especially for a game intended to last at minimum 5 years, and act as a new limb to EVE. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know. I would like to know what others think. Oh yeah, and here is to never getting our SP reset... Again, 5th times the charm. On topic response #1. (You may need to reference Sake Monsters thread below to understand context) Sake's right on the money here, what I am attempting to do is make the community aware that any one role is currently capable of being maximized within 8 months. (effectively by the time this game goes live you will have become as powerful as you can be with any one suit and weapon combination) I would like to know how long the current community feels is adequate for one role to be taken to full potential. mind you that "full potential" means only side grades by way of a different suit and other weapons. i for one would like to see the "core fitting" skill set extended, as well as shield and armor. in addition to those elongate every dropsuit and weapon to a 3 stage progression. On topic response #2. In light of other more pressing threads over the last 3 days I've let this thread slip to page 11. Given said excitement of the last 3 days relating to SP I am hoping to finally get some real community input on this. To do so, I will begin with another example using existing gear to elaborate my point. Realize folks that this is a thought and theory thread dedicated to gaining a community consensus, for "down the line," requests for the DUST Dev team relating to Skill/ Roll Simplification. This is not a thread about ANY specific weapons or their stats, instead the point of this thread, as stated before is SP investment and dedication to specialized functionality. Now that that is out of the way. Let us look at Forge Guns and give each variant to a faction, for the purpose of elaborating my point. Operation- -5% reduction to charge time/level, Profecency- +3% damage/level. Note the operation and proficiency would apply to all of the below equally. The "specialization" given might be trainable at level 3 profecency. Faction--------Variant---------------------Specialization (skill bonus would only apply for faction specific variant) Gallente---- Standard Forge--- -3% charge time/level Minmatar--- Assault Forge----- +1 Round in Mag & +1 round capacity/Level Caldari------ Breach Forge----- LV1 allows you to move at 10% speed while charging & +10% movement speed/ level Amarr------- Stanard Forge---- +5% Splash radius and damage & 10% movement speed while charging/ level Let me know what you think, again not about the weapon changes (which i really do like.) Instead about how you feel about the skill progression as it currently exists. On topic response #3 8 months entails suit, weapon, shield & armor (which also ties into vehicles mitigating that specialty as well) some fitting and general weapons skills (Light weapon sharp shooter or heavy weapon rapid reload ETC.) while i don't necessarily disapprove of field adaptability i do however find that in 1 month some one can come close to being as good as me by stats in any weapon i have spent months specializing in... Honestly that notion is a bit demeaning. Which also brings me to another point. We need to have games where we use a player defined limited SP clone. while i want specialization and the upper hand for corp and faction matches, i also want some challenge in these pub matches... Its not fair to them honestly. Not only am i generally better, have more skill points and deeper pockets. But I also have FAR more experience on these maps. Make it fair, keep it challenging.
James Blaise Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 35	Posted - 2013.01.25 00:31:00 - [3] - Quote Oi! This is open beta... I am sure that CCP will implement one or two more skills for us to read before 8 months comes up.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.25 01:15:00 - [4] - Quote James Blaise wrote: Oi! This is open beta... I am sure that CCP will implement one or two more skills for us to read before 8 months comes up. I've been following this game since its first official teaser DEC 2008. I've been playing for coming on 10 months and 5 builds I have seen the game at its most raw and simplified. To what it is today. i know MTAC's, Fghter's, APC's, Black Ops HAV's leadership and loads more weapons and skills are on the way. What i am trying to entice/provoke is community conversation related to subject matter.
Hunter Junko WARRIORS 1NC 45	Posted - 2013.01.25 03:12:00 - [5] - Quote well i would have a few ideas, but alright, here goes: 1. building your own dropsuit. this could be the advanced levels of the core skills :Combat engineering, nanocircutry, shield systems, down to the weapon slots. utilizing the idea by sake monster. we could reach a point in which we can buy the core components of making a dropsuit and make our own to suit our needs, we all know what a heavy can do, but what if we could have the armor of a heavy with the adaptability of an assault suit? or the characteristics of a logistics suit with the mobility of a scout? take customization to a new level. these suits can only be used in null sec warfare when it is truly implemented when we are going to spend alot of money towards attacking-defending a goal in mind. make it into a high SP skill, like DropSuit construction 10x 2. terrain/ combat Specialization no matter how good you are, and or the latest gear you can buy. its useless without taking in account the various forms of engagement and the various terrain in ALL of new eden. since we are fighting in temperate planet like our own, imagine the countless tactics and strategies needed for every unique form of engagement? we could add a new skill system called awareness points. these points could be added to our dropsuits during the time we have in the war room. the awareness points can be made to give a slight increase in effectiveness in a particular method of combat, on a certain form of terrain in one battle.when the battle ends, the awareness points are 90% refunded to the character. the rest being converted into SP im going to give out a few examples, to make somewhat of a point in this system. Mountains, high place, advantageous positions and possibly a haven for long range warfare 5% damage increase in usage of long range weaponry, 8% decrease in close range combat. 6% increase in scan precision 4% decrease of profile dampening. forest, lots of cover, normal amount of clearing, perfect for Close quarters to medium range combat 5% increase in shield resistance 4% decrease in scan radius 3% damage increase in explosive-incendiary type ammunition. Plasma Storms, a commander's worst nightmare. low visibility, high gale force winds, and electronics severely weakened. this is a walk through hell. 8% increased damage resistance against plasma-based weapons. 10% decrease in shield recharge rate 5% increase in profle dampening 9% decrease in nanocircutry
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.25 05:05:00 - [6] - Quote Interesting, it would serve to give more skill diversity, But that is more for the currently nonexistent leadership/crusader role. I would like to see what they allow us to do with that before we ask for specific extensions. For existing rolls and the skills associated however, I would certainly like to see your primary carrier path elongated by way of a specialization. Even if the extension is only by a few months, to reward those who want to be great at one thing and segregate themselves from those who prefer adaption... Or just simply don't know the direction they want to pursue.
Octavian Vetiver Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.01.25 05:19:00 - [7] - Quote Hunter Junko wrote: well i would have a few ideas, but alright, here goes: 1. building your own dropsuit. this could be the advanced levels of the core skills :Combat engineering, nanocircutry, shield systems, down to the weapon slots. utilizing the idea by sake monster. we could reach a point in which we can buy the core components of making a dropsuit and make our own to suit our needs, we all know what a heavy can do, but what if we could have the armor of a heavy with the adaptability of an assault suit? or the characteristics of a logistics suit with the mobility of a scout? take customization to a new level. these suits can only be used in null sec warfare when it is truly implemented when we are going to spend alot of money towards attacking-defending a goal in mind. make it into a high SP skill, like DropSuit construction 10x 2. terrain/ combat Specialization no matter how good you are, and or the latest gear you can buy. its useless without taking in account the various forms of engagement and the various terrain in ALL of new eden. since we are fighting in temperate planet like our own, imagine the countless tactics and strategies needed for every unique form of engagement? we could add a new skill system called awareness points. these points could be added to our dropsuits during the time we have in the war room. the awareness points can be made to give a slight increase in effectiveness in a particular method of combat, on a certain form of terrain in one battle.when the battle ends, the awareness points are 90% refunded to the character. the rest being converted into SP im going to give out a few examples, to make somewhat of a point in this system. Mountains, high place, advantageous positions and possibly a haven for long range warfare 5% damage increase in usage of long range weaponry, 8% decrease in close range combat. 6% increase in scan precision 4% decrease of profile dampening. forest, lots of cover, normal amount of clearing, perfect for Close quarters to medium range combat 5% increase in shield resistance 4% decrease in scan radius 3% damage increase in explosive-incendiary type ammunition. Plasma Storms, a commander's worst nightmare. low visibility, high gale force winds, and electronics severely weakened. this is a walk through hell. 8% increased damage resistance against plasma-based weapons. 10% decrease in shield recharge rate 5% increase in profle dampening 9% decrease in nanocircutry It sounds like an interesting concept. They'd have to see if they could thread it in with any planetary environmental effects if they do them.
Cynical Driver Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 19	Posted - 2013.01.25 05:40:00 - [8] - Quote Not to over-simplify things, but... With 8 months, or there about, to "Master" a role, one could assume that the game would actually have a "survivability" of a little over two and a half years. I get that because if one spends the time to master one, they will probably master all 4 base roles (Sniper, Front Line, Heavy, Healer/CQC.) With a time-table of 2.5 years to complete (for hardcore gamers) it is very reasonable to think that the game can survive 5 or more years without major overhauls. Like you said, more will be added, so I doubt it is something to be too concerned with. At least it won't be like BO2, where some people hit max level (and prestige) within a week of the game coming out. Even if we assume that hardcore players wll use 3 separate characters (each one having a different specialization, and all leveling at the same time) it would take 16 months to master everything, because you can only do 3 at once. That will stretch out quite far after more things get added in. I hope that all made sense, lol.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.25 21:07:00 - [9] - Quote Cynical Driver wrote: Not to over-simplify things, but... With 8 months, or there about, to "Master" a role, one could assume that the game would actually have a "survivability" of a little over two and a half years. I get that because if one spends the time to master one, they will probably master all 4 base roles (Sniper, Front Line, Heavy, Healer/CQC.) With a time-table of 2.5 years to complete (for hardcore gamers) it is very reasonable to think that the game can survive 5 or more years without major overhauls. Like you said, more will be added, so I doubt it is something to be too concerned with. At least it won't be like BO2, where some people hit max level (and prestige) within a week of the game coming out. Even if we assume that hardcore players wll use 3 separate characters (each one having a different specialization, and all leveling at the same time) it would take 16 months to master everything, because you can only do 3 at once. That will stretch out quite far after more things get added in. I hope that all made sense, lol. most of the hard core guys i know are farming kills for the leader boards. I however am playing 2 the way i have it figured out is that it will not be cost effective to maintain boosters on more then 2 ctr after a period of 16 months. at which point i will be able to effectively play for free. again i want this game to succeed so I'm willing to pay to see that come to fruition.
Hunter Junko WARRIORS 1NC 45	Posted - 2013.01.26 00:18:00 - [10] - Quote Im starting to think it would be better for those who wish to discuss future ways to extend the "Shelf life" of this Game discuss it in the actual MIc chat within the game itself. good idea? no? we can post our discussion in the forums later maybe?

Lasarte Ioni Noob Gaming 72	Posted - 2013.01.26 01:28:00 - [11] - Quote I'm pretty sure CCP can do maths at least as good as you, so if you say it takes 8 months to max the current skills and they promised 7 years, I can almost foresee that there are some skills not yet implemented, because they could have lied, but for 7 years to 8 months, there's a way to go. And i think there are gonna be racial variants of almost everything in the game(at least suits) PD: don't take the math thing as an insult, it's just that i love how ppl start to make QQ threads about every single thing in the game without even give it some thought.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:47:00 - [12] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: I'm pretty sure CCP can do maths at least as good as you, so if you say it takes 8 months to max the current skills and they promised 7 years, I can almost foresee that there are some skills not yet implemented, because they could have lied, but for 7 years to 8 months, there's a way to go. And i think there are gonna be racial variants of almost everything in the game(at least suits) PD: don't take the math thing as an insult, it's just that i love how ppl start to make QQ threads about every single thing in the game without even give it some thought. 7 years for EVERY SKILL that's dropship's, scrambler pistols, Caldari LAV and 100 other things i have little to no interest in. 8 months is still to short in my opinion. Make a differentiation from people that want it all and people that want to be good at their job of choice.
Absolute Idiom II BetaMax. 68	Posted - 2013.01.27 01:52:00 - [13] - Quote 8 months is fine, and on par for how long it typically takes people to gain all the medals and patches in, say, battlefield 3. All having more SP will do is enable you to have versatility in what you can choose to bring. This is a good thing for to reasons: 1) it always allows you to adapt to the enemy tactics 2) even after playing for 2 years solid and having several many millions of SP it will only take 8 months for a new player to catch up to be exactly where you are in skill terms. Knowing this is what will encourage new players to continue to join instead of giving up 'because you are too far ahead in the race'.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 53	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:41:00 - [14] - Quote not everything is released you do realize that right? and playing every day for 8 months strait, wuuuuut, no break?


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