DUST Search - New SP System + Booster is now completely Pay to Win

Altina McAlterson wrote:

Icy Tiger wrote:

Aighun wrote:

Nope.

Before there was a skill point cap I was able to grind over 12,000,000 SP in a relatively short time since I had a lot of free hours. Even so, I was still getting bested by players who were just jumping into the beta via different events and the merc pack.

They were just better than me.

Now, if you could pay someone to show you how to min max a really effective build and a few fittings with under 3 million SP maybe that would be pay to win.

People that constantly complain about the SP gap just don't seem to understand the way the different skills benefit different fittings.

There may be a point in there somewhere, in a situation where a corp had members that had maxed out as many skills as they could, that copr could more easily switch out builds to counter what their enemy was throwing at them. But such a corp is going to find a way to win even if SP earnings for hours played were completely removed from the game and the skilling system was changed to mirror EVE's more exactly.

If someone has the ability to get twice the skills that I do, I consider that pay to win. There's people with Proto weapons already cause of boosters, why don't I have them? Also, you can say "oh, no worries, I can 'catch up'", well by the time I have that particular proto weapon, they'll be halfway skilled into something else.

I call that pay to win.

Did they spend real money? Yes
Do they have a thing because of it? Yes
Can you also get that thing without spending money? Yes
Is that p2w? No

This is called "pay something if you feel like or don't, whatever"

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Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:33:00 - [1] - Quote Active SP Boosters double the cap, giving you access to double the SP that a non booster would have. SP can not be taken back in any way after you miss the day you didn't play, so a person with the booster would always have double the sp, which is completely pay to win. CCP. I am Disappoint.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:37:00 - [2] - Quote Then buy the boosters with isk !
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:38:00 - [3] - Quote Getting to X amount of SP will take non-paying customers more time, but it is attainable, only somewhat slower-going. Thus the game is not pay-to-win. More rapid progression is a staple of F2P games.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:41:00 - [4] - Quote Ugh no its not, its pay to get ahead at best. It will get you to 5 million to SP the point at which most people agree the character develops wider not taller. Without boosters it will take 4 months. There is nothing you can't achieve wtih booster that you cant without given time. Its more like pay to get a head start.. hardly P2W. Even aur bought weaspons and suits are all available to players with ISK at a certain point in the game.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 92	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:42:00 - [5] - Quote another one of these BS, threads again. THIS IS NOT PAY TO WIN. admittedly, using the boosters do let you unlock things sooner then others, but someone who doesn't use them will always be able to catch up eventually. Does it seem unfair? maybe, but anyone who wants to seriously play the game can easily get a 30 day booster with another potential 35 days from the 40k aur you can also get. but id like to emphasize that PAY TO WIN = being able to buy something with real money that gives you an unfair advantage over someone else, and "unfair" in this case means = something you could only obtain through purchasing with real money. I also want to emphasize that when the free market starts up eventually everyone could have the ability to BUY BOOSTERS WITH ISK! thus making it so that you wouldn't have to worry about RL money at all if you get good enough at the game.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:45:00 - [6] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Then buy the boosters with isk ! Well, why not? xD 10,000,000 minimum.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1899	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:45:00 - [7] - Quote Marston VC wrote: I also want to emphasize that when the free market starts up eventually everyone could have the ability to BUY BOOSTERS WITH ISK! thus making it so that you wouldn't have to worry about RL money at all if you get good enough at the game. Yea, I think you might be disappointed with the price.....
Jay Sterling IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 13	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:51:00 - [8] - Quote I'm quite happy so far - CCP's staff need to get paid for their good work. If it wasn't free to pay, I'm not sure how many people would try the game. I intend to spend -ú30 on boosters this year - a sum I consider good value to pay CCP without making me feel uncomfortable.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:51:00 - [9] - Quote The active booster doesn't double, it multiplies by 1.5.....
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:52:00 - [10] - Quote Marston VC wrote: another one of these BS, threads again. THIS IS NOT PAY TO WIN. admittedly, using the boosters do let you unlock things sooner then others, but someone who doesn't use them will always be able to catch up eventually. Does it seem unfair? maybe, but anyone who wants to seriously play the game can easily get a 30 day booster with another potential 35 days from the 40k aur you can also get. "Catch up"

Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 92	Posted - 2013.01.19 23:56:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Marston VC wrote: I also want to emphasize that when the free market starts up eventually everyone could have the ability to BUY BOOSTERS WITH ISK! thus making it so that you wouldn't have to worry about RL money at all if you get good enough at the game. Yea, I think you might be disappointed with the price..... not at all, a PLEX on eve online costs 600,000,000 isk right now, many people can make twice that in a day. ONE plex = 30 day subscription. so lets do a little math. PLEX = 30 days at 600,000,000 isk Booster = 7 days. 600,000,000 / 30 = 20 million per day X 7 = 140 million for one week, however, thats what it would be for EVE online, not dust. If you consider the rediculous inflation on eve, one would think that isk on dust is worth FAR MORE PER ISK then it is on eve right now. So considering that, its possible to think that the price for a 7 day booster can range anywheres between 10 million and 100 million. The exact price will be decided whenever they let us sell AUR on the market, once we find out how many isk per Aur we get, will be able to see how much a booster will cost in isk. anyway the point im trying to make is that, it'll be expensive to newer players, but those who put enough time into it will be able to make more then enough to pay for it.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.20 00:25:00 - [12] - Quote Half of the people who posted are f***ing clueless. I have defended CCP for months now and have told people that it is not pay to win, but with the addition of daily SP without rollover, and the increased booster, it is obviously Pay to win. Person 1: Doesn't spend a dime on the game. Maybe buys a couple skins. Person 2: Spends money on boosters. If player 1 and 2 play for the exact same time, player 2 will have double the SP player 1 has, if he caps his SP limit daily (takes 1-2 hrs) and plays every day. How is this not pay to win?
VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 135	Posted - 2013.01.20 00:30:00 - [13] - Quote where is this "active boosters give double xp" you speak of.....
Anticitizen2501 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2013.01.20 00:30:00 - [14] - Quote This thread is so 2012.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2013.01.20 00:48:00 - [15] - Quote Nope. Before there was a skill point cap I was able to grind over 12,000,000 SP in a relatively short time since I had a lot of free hours. Even so, I was still getting bested by players who were just jumping into the beta via different events and the merc pack. They were just better than me. Now, if you could pay someone to show you how to min max a really effective build and a few fittings with under 3 million SP maybe that would be pay to win. People that constantly complain about the SP gap just don't seem to understand the way the different skills benefit different fittings. There may be a point in there somewhere, in a situation where a corp had members that had maxed out as many skills as they could, that copr could more easily switch out builds to counter what their enemy was throwing at them. But such a corp is going to find a way to win even if SP earnings for hours played were completely removed from the game and the skilling system was changed to mirror EVE's more exactly.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.20 00:59:00 - [16] - Quote VicBoss wrote: where is this "active boosters give double xp" you speak of..... They double the cap, essentially doubling SP gained.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:00:00 - [17] - Quote Aighun wrote: Nope. Before there was a skill point cap I was able to grind over 12,000,000 SP in a relatively short time since I had a lot of free hours. Even so, I was still getting bested by players who were just jumping into the beta via different events and the merc pack. They were just better than me. Now, if you could pay someone to show you how to min max a really effective build and a few fittings with under 3 million SP maybe that would be pay to win. People that constantly complain about the SP gap just don't seem to understand the way the different skills benefit different fittings. There may be a point in there somewhere, in a situation where a corp had members that had maxed out as many skills as they could, that copr could more easily switch out builds to counter what their enemy was throwing at them. But such a corp is going to find a way to win even if SP earnings for hours played were completely removed from the game and the skilling system was changed to mirror EVE's more exactly. If someone has the ability to get twice the skills that I do, I consider that pay to win. There's people with Proto weapons already cause of boosters, why don't I have them? Also, you can say "oh, no worries, I can 'catch up'", well by the time I have that particular proto weapon, they'll be halfway skilled into something else. I call that pay to win.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:09:00 - [18] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Aighun wrote: Nope. Before there was a skill point cap I was able to grind over 12,000,000 SP in a relatively short time since I had a lot of free hours. Even so, I was still getting bested by players who were just jumping into the beta via different events and the merc pack. They were just better than me. Now, if you could pay someone to show you how to min max a really effective build and a few fittings with under 3 million SP maybe that would be pay to win. People that constantly complain about the SP gap just don't seem to understand the way the different skills benefit different fittings. There may be a point in there somewhere, in a situation where a corp had members that had maxed out as many skills as they could, that copr could more easily switch out builds to counter what their enemy was throwing at them. But such a corp is going to find a way to win even if SP earnings for hours played were completely removed from the game and the skilling system was changed to mirror EVE's more exactly. If someone has the ability to get twice the skills that I do, I consider that pay to win. There's people with Proto weapons already cause of boosters, why don't I have them? Also, you can say "oh, no worries, I can 'catch up'", well by the time I have that particular proto weapon, they'll be halfway skilled into something else. I call that pay to win. Did they spend real money? Yes Do they have a thing because of it? Yes Can you also get that thing without spending money? Yes Is that p2w? No This is called "pay something if you feel like or don't, whatever"
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:11:00 - [19] - Quote Pay for a head start
PIMP MAC DADDY 2100374163 A.I. 41	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:13:00 - [20] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Active SP Boosters double the cap, giving you access to double the SP that a non booster would have. SP can not be taken back in any way after you miss the day you didn't play, so a person with the booster would always have double the sp, which is completely pay to win. CCP. I am Disappoint. I agree.

Tryhard514 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 111	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:25:00 - [21] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Active SP Boosters double the cap, giving you access to double the SP that a non booster would have. SP can not be taken back in any way after you miss the day you didn't play, so a person with the booster would always have double the sp, which is completely pay to win. CCP. I am Disappoint. CCP doesn't give a fuq, all about that $
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1899	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:29:00 - [22] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Pay for a head start I just picture a bunch of people on a race track, with half the runners already at the halfway mark when the gun fires.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:30:00 - [23] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Half of the people who posted are f***ing clueless. I have defended CCP for months now and have told people that it is not pay to win, but with the addition of daily SP without rollover, and the increased booster, it is obviously Pay to win. Person 1: Doesn't spend a dime on the game. Maybe buys a couple skins. Person 2: Spends money on boosters. If player 1 and 2 play for the exact same time, player 2 will have double the SP player 1 has, if he caps his SP limit daily (takes 1-2 hrs) and plays every day. How is this not pay to win? SMH. The only way it feels like that is because of association bias. Currently the skill gap b/w players is big b/w non boosters and booster players because everyone has low SP and their was a reset. So every SP counts. Were only a week in. That gap will continue to suck for at least 1-2 months after which the gap despite how much wider it gets becomes negligible because players will have built their core skills and create a specialized build. The ones with booster will merely now making their character wider by specing into vehicles or other dropsuits and weapons. But that won't affect your ability to compete if you build your primary loadout properly. It suck now because we do have an advantage but it was no different than the advantage that the ENTIRE base has on me when i started the weekend before chromosome and that first week sucked goat epeen. After 18days i was fine for the most part. Now quit crying.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:42:00 - [24] - Quote Also the booster raise your SP cap by 50% learn to do math. 40,800 is 50% more than 27,200. 36,000 is 50% more than 24,000 Having both booster than gives you a difference of 51,200 vs 76,800. What percentage is that folks.
DigiOps DUST University Ivy League 85	Posted - 2013.01.20 01:54:00 - [25] - Quote Now that I'm done experimenting with classes (mostly since its a bit difficult to do without potentially wasting a few days on a potentially failed build) I think I'm gonna start picking up mercenary packs every couple of months. Does that mean I'll be doing better? Likely not. Money does not equal skill. Am I serious about Dust? You better believe it.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.20 15:31:00 - [26] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Aighun wrote: Nope. Before there was a skill point cap I was able to grind over 12,000,000 SP in a relatively short time since I had a lot of free hours. Even so, I was still getting bested by players who were just jumping into the beta via different events and the merc pack. They were just better than me. Now, if you could pay someone to show you how to min max a really effective build and a few fittings with under 3 million SP maybe that would be pay to win. People that constantly complain about the SP gap just don't seem to understand the way the different skills benefit different fittings. There may be a point in there somewhere, in a situation where a corp had members that had maxed out as many skills as they could, that copr could more easily switch out builds to counter what their enemy was throwing at them. But such a corp is going to find a way to win even if SP earnings for hours played were completely removed from the game and the skilling system was changed to mirror EVE's more exactly. If someone has the ability to get twice the skills that I do, I consider that pay to win. There's people with Proto weapons already cause of boosters, why don't I have them? Also, you can say "oh, no worries, I can 'catch up'", well by the time I have that particular proto weapon, they'll be halfway skilled into something else. I call that pay to win. Did they spend real money? Yes Do they have a thing because of it? Yes Can you also get that thing without spending money? Yes Is that p2w? No This is called "pay something if you feel like or don't, whatever" By that same logic, if they introduced an instakill weapon for $5 you'd be fine with it. Also, I honestly don't care, nothing better than killing people who spent real money on the game, I'm just saying it cause of the sake of the open beta.
VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 135	Posted - 2013.01.20 23:57:00 - [27] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: VicBoss wrote: where is this "active boosters give double xp" you speak of..... They double the cap, essentially doubling SP gained. Gunner Visari wrote: Also the booster raise your SP cap by 50% learn to do math. 40,800 is 50% more than 27,200. 36,000 is 50% more than 24,000 Having both booster than gives you a difference of 51,200 vs 76,800. What percentage is that folks. So i say again, Where is this "active boosters give double xp" you speak of..........
Patoman OfallColors Angels of Darkness 3	Posted - 2013.01.21 00:24:00 - [28] - Quote I don't see a issue, CCP needs revenue. Its about as play to win as WOT but the profit isn't affected (if you suck/have back luck you can realy lose in high teir matches). Its what, 50% bonus, not changing passive SP gain. The game could always be a flat subscription fee, no micro, but people do like micro, so it micro. Deal wiz it. Think of not playing to win, or buying auburn as a trial, or free account that goes on forever. Use to be you had to pay to play any sort of MMO.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2013.01.21 00:27:00 - [29] - Quote This is the least invasive way for CCP to make money on the huge investment they have made creating this game. You can protest, but you can't come up with a single example of something people can buy that you can't get just by playing the free game. They can get things a bit faster, and that will matter for a very short period, but that's precisely what will get people to part with a little cash. There will always be players ahead of others for the life of this game. That's not unfair, just the way that all MMO's work. You can't design one that isn't. What CCP has done is design the game in such a way that this SP disparity will be irrelevant after a short period of play. You won't be in a situation where your level 20 wizard can't play in the same match as a level 80 fighter because his sneeze would kill you. Now your level 1 assault character won't fare will against a level 20 Heavy, but the matchmaking system should keep you separate for your vulnerable period. Chill.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2013.01.21 00:37:00 - [30] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Active SP Boosters double the cap, giving you access to double the SP that a non booster would have. SP can not be taken back in any way after you miss the day you didn't play, so a person with the booster would always have double the sp, which is completely pay to win. So because the cap is doubled, that automatically means the user WILL hit the new cap every single day the booster is active? I'm assuming you have some bizarre substitute for logic by which this somehow makes sense? "A person with the booster has the potential for double the SP" would be correct. "A person with the booster would always have double the SP" is a flat-out LIE.

Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.21 02:02:00 - [31] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Active SP Boosters double the cap, giving you access to double the SP that a non booster would have. SP can not be taken back in any way after you miss the day you didn't play, so a person with the booster would always have double the sp, which is completely pay to win. So because the cap is doubled, that automatically means the user WILL hit the new cap every single day the booster is active? I'm assuming you have some bizarre substitute for logic by which this somehow makes sense? "A person with the booster has the potential for 50% more SP" would be correct. "A person with the booster would always have 50% more SP" is a flat-out LIE. Fixed it for you.


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