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Little talk about AV vs vehicle

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Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.21 08:23:00 - [1] - Quote YourDeadAgain76 wrote: It should take a squad of dudes to kill ur tank worth 2 million isk and what like 3 million Skill points about (i never had Proto) its probably like 3 million for the tank and mods/turrets and 4 million worth of SP. +1 +1+1 to anything that brings tanks to the level they should be at. CCP has never given niche protection to you for spending more ISK than someone else. I don't think they should start. The counter to AV infantry is, and should always be a buncha assault monkeys who chase down and kill them. Second, earlier point made earlier is awesomely valid. the effectiveness of AV is based on the fittings of the HAV. if you fit an armor tank on a gunnlogi, you have problems. If you shieldfit a soma, you're missing the point. Second, a lot of tank drivers flat out fail to react when they start taking big hits. Forge gunners who stick to it, and max it out (including the damage mods) have pumped in a massive SP investment to become effective tank killers. If you're having trouble getting three-shotted by a forge gunner, I might suggest a dual rep platform to give you more time to get away. If your tank doesn't take the hint and leave when weapons meant to kill it start firing, then you deserve to lose the tank to the AV gunner. Also folks, whenever you lose a tank you only see the killshot. If 2-3 forge gunners are unloading shot after shot from assault forges, you won't know it. Only swarms are obvious there. I absolutely disagree that AV should eat a nerf, because i think that it will encourage tankers to LOLroll and not THINK. If you keep losing tanks over and over, I'm sorry it's time to examine what you are driving, how you are driving it and how you are fitting it. I have killed many many idiots in gunnlogi with the militia forge because they sit there like they're invulnerable. But I've encountered sica drivers I couldn't kill with my assault forge because they overtanked the ******, then proceeded to maneuver whenever they'd take a hit off me so they can repair. When I was driving a soma I'd ditch the combat area after I saw the second swarm fly because I knew I'd need to repair. i went 27/0 in the damn thing and I lose my militia fit to militia weapons all the time. I consider this working as intended. I routinely murder people in proto suits using free fits. also working as intended. because if you let me get that close with a shotgun you deserve to fry. Every person who has argued for a major AV nerf has absolutely refused to examine tactics they could have used to better survive. Also, If you put tanks on the field sooner or later some enterprising smartass will kill it. You will be forced to buy another. This is also intended as part of the game. If you deploy it, it will die. But back to tactics. Any time someone brings up tactics as a consideration over pure game mechanics it's either ignored entirely, or someone pipes up with that "keep your filthy realism out of my games" crap. Lemme share with you words of wisdom. Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and yet still expecting a different result. So when you present your evidence, gove examples, tell us your tactics, your fit, what you were doing, and how you were doing it because these arguments to nerf heavies come off entirely as "I don't like it so it needs to be nerfed." Not "It's unbalanced" but "I don't like it." Because the whole picture is not being presented. TL;DR version: LOL no AV nerf because tankers are lazy! btw n00b, PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.21 21:47:00 - [2] - Quote then you fail at fitting tanks. Because it's the modules that make or break the fit. And once damage mods suffer from diminishing returns, AV will do less damage. so will lasers and your precious ARs.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.21 22:36:00 - [3] - Quote it's an instant gratification thing. they want to be invulnerable NOW! AV is fine. Tanks are not, nor should they be, sacrosanct. Kill them all.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.22 02:21:00 - [4] - Quote militia AV isn't as useful as everyone seems to think, unless there's three of them focusing fire. However. I don't really give a crap about militia equipment, anyone who uses it so they never lose money is missing the point. Proto heavy AV Vs. Sagaris = slight stacking in Sagaris' favor Advanced heavy Vs. Sagaris = Advanced heavy best do everything right or his ass is grass Sagaris with militia/basic fits = dog chow to any AV in the game. Also, the forge guns do more damage than tank turrets if you have the damage mods loaded and locked. Tanks can load damage mods as well, also hardeners and crap. The Armor tanks are rigged so they can crank up damage modifications without sacrificing tank. HOWEVER. Shield tanks are primarily a defensive measure, so the damage mods have to be sacrificed, but you can load things like torque mods to increase the acceleration and speed of a tank. But if you cannot use a fit that exclusively uses advanced modules, you have no business deploying a Sagaris. If you're stacking damage mods on a shield tank you're gimping your survivability and AV will eat you. Shields can be optimized for mobility and defense, and the armor seem more optimized for what people in EVE refer to as DPS tank. IE, your heavy ass armor fit ain't really that great but you can vomit out death and pain at a phenomenal rate. If you see swarms fly get cover and let the infantry clear a few rooms before re-engaging. While you CAN kill infantry with a forge, it's not as easy as people think, unless the person being shot is being REALLY weirdly dumb. Past that it's a skillshot even to hit a distant, moving tank. but a marauder with full proto fit being solo'd in four shots by a forgegun won't happen. To suggest that's a viable thing is laughable at best unless you have put all DPS modules and Speed modules with no other consideration. But if you did that why the flaming hell didn't you just call in an LAV?
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.22 19:20:00 - [5] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Very well fitted tanks should be able to hold up to FG/SL if they are milita/basic for at least a few seconds and be able to tank damage instead of getting hit and having to retreat at the 1st site of AV AV ppl should have to specialize into advanced and proto just like tanker have to because milita sucks and every milita tank ive come accross has died quickly either by my hand or maybe a couple of us, even gunlogis die quickly atm just to 2 guys and milita or even 1 People with the skills into forgeguns lugging around an Ishukone Forge Gun make a guy with a militia forge look like a five year old with a popgun. I assure you, the militia forge is weak by comparison.

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