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Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
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Posted - 2013.01.18 18:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I play a Type-II heavy with a 'Broadside' MH-82 HMG, Weaponry V and a Complex Damage Mod.
Last night I turned a corner and saw an AR wielding heavy standing not far from me. We both were at full health, both saw each other, raised our weapons and fired at pretty much the same time. I died to his Militia Assault Rifle.
This death was the latest in a string of AR related deaths that just left me wondering "WTF!?" So here's my question: How was my Proto (stat wise) 'Broadside' MH-82 Heavy Machine Gun out DPSed by a Militia Assault Rifle? I have Weaponry V and a Complex Damage Mod fitted. So that's 20% more damage.
My feedback:
Assault Rifles have equal / better DPS than HMG's, slightly less range than Laser Rifles, are quickly reloaded, cheap / free, low SP investments and have no heat mechanic. Their range / damage per shot is high. They can do it all; long range, mid range, CQC. All other weapons are specialized for their specific task and excel at it at the expense of everything else. Shotguns / SMG's will own in CQC but do nothing at longer ranges. Snipers / LR's own at long range but get in close and they're dead. AR's, however, own at short / moderate range but are still good in CQC/ long range as well. This doesn't match with the other weapons.
My suggestion:
Either figure out where the AR is supposed to shine and make it the king of that area, and bad at all the others. Or make it mediocre at everything . The current fact that it can hold it's own in CQC, out DPS a HMG at short / moderate range, and still damage a target at long range is just not in line with how the other weapons are specced.
So there. That's my "Whahh, I died so it's OP" post. But I really do think there is a problem that needs to be, at least, discussed.
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Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 20:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote:Also sorry to say but if memory serves your standard assault rifle does about 33 damage and 750 RPM which works out at 412.5 DPS.
You standard HMG does 16 damage at 2000 RPM which works out at 533.3 DPS, admittedly not all shots will hit but that's the same for the other guy. Two points:
1). Mathematically, in a perfect world, you are correct. But from what I have gathered the firing model for the HMG is a cylinder not a cone. So even at point blank not all of the bullets will hit (This is so that the HMG doesn't decimate in CQC). So, if only 75% of the shots hit (due to the cylinder not encompassing your targets full hitbox) the HMG only does 399 DPS. Less than the AR.
2). The difference between an AR's DPS and an HMG's DPS is 30% and that's when all shots hit. That's not a lot. Realistically, do you think a M16 is only 30% less deadly / destructive than an M61 Vulcan ? The Vulcan fires freaking 20 mm caliber bullets at 6000 RPM. Those are anti tank caliber rounds! At 6000 RPM! And that's modern day tech.
3. How does an individual AR round causing 2x the amount of damage as an HMG round make sense? Again, 20 mm caliber HMG round vs 5.56 mm AR rounds.
Snagman 313 wrote:I would suggest that the other player managed to hit you in the head a bit causing large damage. Sadly it's a lot easier with the AR. I just don't think it should matter. I had an Proto level HMG, at optimal, against a Militia AR. The HMG has all these negatives (Large weapon, overheat mechanic, really expensive, high SP investment, no range, no turn speed, no CQC) so when it finally gets to its positive (mowing down people in front of you at optimal) it shouldn't lose. Especially to a free Militia AR.
And to clarify, I'm not clamoring too loudly for a HMG buff (maybe make it a cone not a cylinder). I am just pointing out the many flaws people keep using to say there isn't a problem with AR's. There is. They are great weapons, but their damage similarity to other weapons makes no sense mathematically, situationally, or realistically. |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 20:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Are you being serious? For **** sake man you really are saying ARs are still OP?  Vs a heavy hmg? How bad of a player are you?ARs have been nerfed almost every build. Heavies and HMGs have a higher starting base EHP and DPS then assault/scout/logi & AR could possbily imagine. I get this and am one of the people that are not calling for a heavy or HMG nerf because the other suits/weapons should eventually come on par. Thats said I get dropped by starter heavies all damn day when not using a heavy myself. Please stop posting if you are that bad of a player because everyone and everything will kill you. Look, I'm not going to pretend I am some godly player here. I suck, but I'm not horrible. That aside I'm not talking about buffing the HMG or Heavy. You are right, they are perfectly fine. I can mow down infantry with my HMG with relative ease.
My biggest gripe is with the AR. Why? Because for the reasons I've listed it makes no sense how versatile it is / how much damage it can put out. I have no problem with snapback snipers (they can only do that from range) or OHK shotgun scouts (they die in anything but CQC) even the supposedly OP Laser Rifle is fine (Another range only weapon). But the AR works everywhere, and often exceeds other weapons (such as the HMG / SMG) in their optimal range. That's not how rock, paper, scissors balancing works. Everything has a niche it excels in but fails everywhere else. The AR defies that since it excels everywhere and can compete with other weapons in their niche areas.
Again, I am not calling for a NERF or BUFF or anything. I just wanted to discuss this. What are other people's opinions on the current AR? Do they think it's fine? Or do they share my opinion that it puts out too much damage for how versatile it is? |
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