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Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.01.16 21:11:00 -
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DEADPOOL5241 wrote:(K.I.S.S. is Keep it simple stupid) FYI
Easy way to fix all grenades (ALL)
Make players actually have to spend skill points to make them effective.
Example, as a Mass Driver (the mighty noob tube) We spend skill points into Radius (5%) with 5 levels to spec into.
Why is that a grenade allows you to spend 12,000 SP and you get to use them as full powered grenades.
Basic lvl 1 grenades should have smaller radius if not less damage, then a lvl 5 grenade. As you spend points you get bigger radius and if you go into proficiency you get more damage (BTW x8 for that skill book).
Now we don't have every player and their mother spamming grenades, well not until you actually skill into them.
Thoughts?
You dont play eve i take it do you? CCP learned in EvE that trying to limit things by requiring skill level or isk isn't a balancing mechanism that works.
The only thing you do it give people with higher sp or isk an advantage over those that have level skills or isk.
What needs to be done is look at mechanics and damage of nades. I.E fuse timer, contact mechanic, damage low level nades, throwing mechanics, and nanohive replentishment.
Remember in the summer when everyone hated thukker? CCP just heard the aurum cries and not the threads about the fact they were quick fuse and contact aka spam. I remember getting 20 kills in a match with thukkers just camping a supply depot.
+1 for addressing the idea even if I strongly disagree with your proposal |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.01.16 21:37:00 -
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DEADPOOL5241 wrote:Free Beers wrote:DEADPOOL5241 wrote:(K.I.S.S. is Keep it simple stupid) FYI
Easy way to fix all grenades (ALL)
Make players actually have to spend skill points to make them effective.
Example, as a Mass Driver (the mighty noob tube) We spend skill points into Radius (5%) with 5 levels to spec into.
Why is that a grenade allows you to spend 12,000 SP and you get to use them as full powered grenades.
Basic lvl 1 grenades should have smaller radius if not less damage, then a lvl 5 grenade. As you spend points you get bigger radius and if you go into proficiency you get more damage (BTW x8 for that skill book).
Now we don't have every player and their mother spamming grenades, well not until you actually skill into them.
Thoughts? You dont play eve i take it do you? CCP learned in EvE that trying to limit things by requiring skill level or isk isn't a balancing mechanism that works. The only thing you do it give people with higher sp or isk an advantage over those that have level skills or isk. What needs to be done is look at mechanics and damage of nades. I.E fuse timer, contact mechanic, damage low level nades, throwing mechanics, and nanohive replentishment. Remember in the summer when everyone hated thukker? CCP just heard the aurum cries and not the threads about the fact they were quick fuse and contact aka spam. I remember getting 20 kills in a match with thukkers just camping a supply depot. +1 for addressing the idea even if I strongly disagree with your proposal Nope, Sorry Free Beers. I don't play Eve, so I appreciate the history lesson. Trying man, just trying to get involved in the community and get some ideas out there for "We the players" to take a look at and discuss. So I appreciate the post and ideas you presented. Maybe its a combo of both ideas? Lowering the damage of the first lvl grenades, would stop noob spam. Which is really all I am talking about. Real fighters (see both of us) don't make grenades the primary and last resort to get kills. I like Flux but thats about as far as I go.
I do agree with keep it simple stupid (learned that in being a dev go figure). the nad spam and mechanics are 2 different things.
Issue - martyrdom aka nade before death
solution - fuse timer back to 5 and no contact
Reason - nades are powerful and should require more skill to use. Just because you are about to die in a gun fight doesn't mean you deservere leave the other guy with a final FU for beating you.
Issue - nade spam
solution - nades shouldn't be replenished by nanohives or supply depots
Reason - nades are supplamental in dust and shouldn't be a primary if so they should take up gun slots and use a lot more cpu/pg.
Issue - low level nade damage
solution - scale down the direct damage on lower end stuff especially free.
Reason - Milita nades don't need to be good enough like milita guns and suits since those are required and nades are not.
for the record I nade spam because i pretty much have 4 kdr with free suits doing this. Using a gun where i have sp in its probably close to a 2 kdr.
So there I have addressed known issues specifically. I still expect scrubs to QQ for their only means of killing regardless
Now i know heavies are beating the crap out of everyone but that is more the fact they are more powerful on lower levels then any other suit. nades are the main counter to these so i get the damage is concern if its reduced. lastly i think nades, including flux, should damage based on profile of what they damage.
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Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.01.16 21:50:00 -
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arimal lavaren wrote:most of this sounds reasonable except for no grenades from hives or supply depots slow it down a bit more sure, that I would be cool with.
But am curious about the rational for damage being based on scan profile?
This really depend on how ccp does the damage and radius of nades. If they fix them as I said and there is more skill and tatics invovled then i don't see a real need for it.
For flux nades is where I see need for scan profile to effect it. it has such big radius and does so much shield damage that a level 1 can clear any suits shield in the game. Even on the edge of explosion you take full shield wipe.
flux are only nade that damage everything in vehicle and suits with high damage and radius. compare them to av and locus and you will see how powerful they are when combined with any and every other gun.
I use flux when i run heavies/shotgun scouts/ logis/ assualt suit. The are really all purpose, over effective, and very powerful. |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.01.16 22:02:00 -
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Breakin Stuff wrote:But for the record I think that shieldtanked dropsuits should significantly reduce the effect of locus grenades. I have no problem diminishing militia bangers. Militia grenades will pop a militia suit (which is working as intended) if you drop the bang to 300. this would make them less effective against caldari assault suits and still devastating against tissue-tanked scouts.
I think that each level of nade should be sufficient to instapop a similar level of dropsuit... IF there are no tank modules installed, or if you try to shield tank a heavy VK.0 or something. Past that they should cause a significant amount of damage if you go for real tank instead of DPS tank
people that put nothing but complex damage mods in a caldari assault suit and die to a locus is working as intended. But a caldari who instapops to a similar locus while properly shield tanked is a problem.
If you DPS tank it means you are paper tanked and your ddropsuit should explode to grenades accordingly.
I dont think scaling damage to suit 1:1 is answer as base sheild ehp doesn't go up. Only diff for assault suit is type 1 or 2. My concen really is general effectiveness of nades vs skill level require to use the and shear brokenness of it.
Also I am going to assume that ccp will eventually put in 4 damage types and resists by the time the game is finished in 2019. So trying to balance nades vs suit with resists + or - % on shield or armor will have to be redone by then anyways. |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.01.16 22:07:00 -
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arimal lavaren wrote:Fair enough seeing as scan profile is somewhat like how "sheilded" your electrical systems are that could work out, I'm a big fan of the flux(no need to tell me how useful they are) and even I think it's a little ridiculous when it does 1000 points of damage to each and every shield in the blast radius.
As I say I don't fault the player for mechanics ccp has given us. I am always straight up that I am average fps gamer and use everything I can to win. No shame that I nade spam and flux spam. (Note if you are my buddy i will call you a scrub for doing the same things I have admitted too here).
+ 1 for admitting you have a Flux addiction. it's the first step to recrovery 
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Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.01.16 22:14:00 -
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DEADPOOL5241 wrote:
See intelligent players from different Corps (corps that are not on the most friendly of terms) can discuss issues in the game and theory craft ideas for CCP to go over in meetings. This is the kind of community we can get behind.
How dare you accuse me of being intelligent you no skill, nade spaming, noob tube whor... Wait wut?  |
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