DUST Search - How to fix Greandes the K.I.S.S way

Free Beers wrote:

DEADPOOL5241 wrote:

Free Beers wrote:

DEADPOOL5241 wrote:

(K.I.S.S. is Keep it simple stupid) FYI

Easy way to fix all grenades (ALL)

Make players actually have to spend skill points to make them effective.

Example, as a Mass Driver (the mighty noob tube) We spend skill points into Radius (5%) with 5 levels to spec into.

Why is that a grenade allows you to spend 12,000 SP and you get to use them as full powered grenades.

Basic lvl 1 grenades should have smaller radius if not less damage, then a lvl 5 grenade. As you spend points you get bigger radius and if you go into proficiency you get more damage (BTW x8 for that skill book).

Now we don't have every player and their mother spamming grenades, well not until you actually skill into them.

Thoughts?

You dont play eve i take it do you? CCP learned in EvE that trying to limit things by requiring skill level or isk isn't a balancing mechanism that works.

The only thing you do it give people with higher sp or isk an advantage over those that have level skills or isk.

What needs to be done is look at mechanics and damage of nades. I.E fuse timer, contact mechanic, damage low level nades, throwing mechanics, and nanohive replentishment.

Remember in the summer when everyone hated thukker? CCP just heard the aurum cries and not the threads about the fact they were quick fuse and contact aka spam. I remember getting 20 kills in a match with thukkers just camping a supply depot.

+1 for addressing the idea even if I strongly disagree with your proposal

Nope, Sorry Free Beers. I don't play Eve, so I appreciate the history lesson.

Trying man, just trying to get involved in the community and get some ideas out there for "We the players" to take a look at and discuss. So I appreciate the post and ideas you presented.

Maybe its a combo of both ideas?

Lowering the damage of the first lvl grenades, would stop noob spam. Which is really all I am talking about. Real fighters (see both of us) don't make grenades the primary and last resort to get kills. I like Flux but thats about as far as I go.

I do agree with keep it simple stupid (learned that in being a dev go figure). the nad spam and mechanics are 2 different things.

Issue - martyrdom aka nade before death

solution - fuse timer back to 5 and no contact

Reason - nades are powerful and should require more skill to use. Just because you are about to die in a gun fight doesn't mean you deservere leave the other guy with a final FU for beating you.

Issue - nade spam

solution - nades shouldn't be replenished by nanohives or supply depots

Reason - nades are supplamental in dust and shouldn't be a primary if so they should take up gun slots and use a lot more cpu/pg.

Issue - low level nade damage

solution - scale down the direct damage on lower end stuff especially free.

Reason - Milita nades don't need to be good enough like milita guns and suits since those are required and nades are not.

for the record I nade spam because i pretty much have 4 kdr with free suits doing this. Using a gun where i have sp in its probably close to a 2 kdr.

So there I have addressed known issues specifically. I still expect scrubs to QQ for their only means of killing regardless

Now i know heavies are beating the crap out of everyone but that is more the fact they are more powerful on lower levels then any other suit. nades are the main counter to these so i get the damage is concern if its reduced. lastly i think nades, including flux, should damage based on profile of what they damage.


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DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.01.16 18:55:00 - [1] - Quote (K.I.S.S. is Keep it simple stupid) FYI Easy way to fix all grenades (ALL) Make players actually have to spend skill points to make them effective. Example, as a Mass Driver (the mighty noob tube) We spend skill points into Radius (5%) with 5 levels to spec into. Why is that a grenade allows you to spend 12,000 SP and you get to use them as full powered grenades. Basic lvl 1 grenades should have smaller radius if not less damage, then a lvl 5 grenade. As you spend points you get bigger radius and if you go into proficiency you get more damage (BTW x8 for that skill book). Now we don't have every player and their mother spamming grenades, well not until you actually skill into them. Thoughts?
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:15:00 - [2] - Quote I'm sorry, I am use to actual fighters not wimps when I play FPS games. Reason I don't play games like Halo is the grenade spam. Now here we are in DUST and grenade spam is all over this game. Players that say grenades are fine, are also I assume the players that are solely using them to get kills. Match last night, we watched as one player never used his primary weapon, just grenades the WHOLE match. If you forced players to spend Skill points into grenades the spam would be less, not all, but much less. We all have to spend SP to get to proto weapons and equipment but lvl 1 grenades need nothing..
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:19:00 - [3] - Quote Free Beers wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: (K.I.S.S. is Keep it simple stupid) FYI Easy way to fix all grenades (ALL) Make players actually have to spend skill points to make them effective. Example, as a Mass Driver (the mighty noob tube) We spend skill points into Radius (5%) with 5 levels to spec into. Why is that a grenade allows you to spend 12,000 SP and you get to use them as full powered grenades. Basic lvl 1 grenades should have smaller radius if not less damage, then a lvl 5 grenade. As you spend points you get bigger radius and if you go into proficiency you get more damage (BTW x8 for that skill book). Now we don't have every player and their mother spamming grenades, well not until you actually skill into them. Thoughts? You dont play eve i take it do you? CCP learned in EvE that trying to limit things by requiring skill level or isk isn't a balancing mechanism that works. The only thing you do it give people with higher sp or isk an advantage over those that have level skills or isk. What needs to be done is look at mechanics and damage of nades. I.E fuse timer, contact mechanic, damage low level nades, throwing mechanics, and nanohive replentishment. Remember in the summer when everyone hated thukker? CCP just heard the aurum cries and not the threads about the fact they were quick fuse and contact aka spam. I remember getting 20 kills in a match with thukkers just camping a supply depot. +1 for addressing the idea even if I strongly disagree with your proposal Nope, Sorry Free Beers. I don't play Eve, so I appreciate the history lesson. Trying man, just trying to get involved in the community and get some ideas out there for "We the players" to take a look at and discuss. So I appreciate the post and ideas you presented. Maybe its a combo of both ideas? Lowering the damage of the first lvl grenades, would stop noob spam. Which is really all I am talking about. Real fighters (see both of us) don't make grenades the primary and last resort to get kills. I like Flux but thats about as far as I go.
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.01.16 21:48:00 - [4] - Quote Free Beers wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: Free Beers wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: (K.I.S.S. is Keep it simple stupid) FYI Easy way to fix all grenades (ALL) Make players actually have to spend skill points to make them effective. Example, as a Mass Driver (the mighty noob tube) We spend skill points into Radius (5%) with 5 levels to spec into. Why is that a grenade allows you to spend 12,000 SP and you get to use them as full powered grenades. Basic lvl 1 grenades should have smaller radius if not less damage, then a lvl 5 grenade. As you spend points you get bigger radius and if you go into proficiency you get more damage (BTW x8 for that skill book). Now we don't have every player and their mother spamming grenades, well not until you actually skill into them. Thoughts? You dont play eve i take it do you? CCP learned in EvE that trying to limit things by requiring skill level or isk isn't a balancing mechanism that works. The only thing you do it give people with higher sp or isk an advantage over those that have level skills or isk. What needs to be done is look at mechanics and damage of nades. I.E fuse timer, contact mechanic, damage low level nades, throwing mechanics, and nanohive replentishment. Remember in the summer when everyone hated thukker? CCP just heard the aurum cries and not the threads about the fact they were quick fuse and contact aka spam. I remember getting 20 kills in a match with thukkers just camping a supply depot. +1 for addressing the idea even if I strongly disagree with your proposal Nope, Sorry Free Beers. I don't play Eve, so I appreciate the history lesson. Trying man, just trying to get involved in the community and get some ideas out there for "We the players" to take a look at and discuss. So I appreciate the post and ideas you presented. Maybe its a combo of both ideas? Lowering the damage of the first lvl grenades, would stop noob spam. Which is really all I am talking about. Real fighters (see both of us) don't make grenades the primary and last resort to get kills. I like Flux but thats about as far as I go. I do agree with keep it simple stupid (learned that in being a dev go figure). the nad spam and mechanics are 2 different things. Issue - martyrdom aka nade before death solution - fuse timer back to 5 and no contact Reason - nades are powerful and should require more skill to use. Just because you are about to die in a gun fight doesn't mean you deservere leave the other guy with a final FU for beating you. Issue - nade spam solution - nades shouldn't be replenished by nanohives or supply depots Reason - nades are supplamental in dust and shouldn't be a primary if so they should take up gun slots and use a lot more cpu/pg. Issue - low level nade damage solution - scale down the direct damage on lower end stuff especially free. Reason - Milita nades don't need to be good enough like milita guns and suits since those are required and nades are not. for the record I nade spam because i pretty much have 4 kdr with free suits doing this. Using a gun where i have sp in its probably close to a 2 kdr. So there I have addressed known issues specifically. I still expect scrubs to QQ for their only means of killing regardless Now i know heavies are beating the crap out of everyone but that is more the fact they are more powerful on lower levels then any other suit. nades are the main counter to these so i get the damage is concern if its reduced. lastly i think nades, including flux, should damage based on profile of what they damage. Good stuff. I agree with all but Nanohives/Supply Depot, not giving back grenades. Longer timer for getting them back I can get behind. All the other solutions are good stuff and would support if CCP did any of this. See intelligent players from different Corps (corps that are not on the most friendly of terms) can discuss issues in the game and theory craft ideas for CCP to go over in meetings. This is the kind of community we can get behind.