DUST Search - [SUGGESTION] A modest proposal to fix ALL balancing issues once and for all

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

We all know the nerf bat is coming. A nice rundown by Rayan Storm here - TLDR: everything will get nerfed because people don't understand rock-paper-scissors gameplay, don't like that their pet weapon/dropsuit/vehicle isn't invincible, and think "balance" is short-hand for "I own all."

I have a modest proposal that will fix this.

On 22nd at open beta launch, introduce a new weapon. Let's call it "Full Auto BFG." Here some features of the weapon:

Causes splash damage, enough to take down a heavy from 10 meters
Kills a HAV or a dropship with a single direct hit
Full auto, all the time
Sucks up thrown grenades, attaches a homing device to them, and sends them back at the thrower
Automatically repairs and revives every merc with 25m
Automatically repairs vehicles within 25m
Works as a nanohive for all friendlies within 10m
Works as a drop uplink
Cuts down your scan profile by 50%, and your scanning accuracy and radius by 50%
Adds 100% to your shields when used
Has enough ammo to last a whole Skirmish match
No reloads. Ever.
(this is important): make the required skills and pricing so that a random player would see it in use perhaps once a week tops. It must not require AUR to buy.

"But that's OP!" Yes it is, but that's the whole point! If there is a weapon in the game that is so OP that the wielder plows through entire platoons of Imperfects, everyone can finally agree on something to nerf.

Quote:

The point is to direct attention away from perceived imbalances which are actually game mechanics working as designed.

In a few days of epic forum QQing CCP should say "after thorough investigation, we have decided that the splash damage should be reduced by 25%". After another few days they might take away the uplink feature. They could stretch this thing for months! In the meanwhile, the rest of us could continue playing a game, and the QQers would just rage on forums about Full Auto BFG, leaving the rest of the game intact.

Thoughts?

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Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.16 10:08:00 - [1] - Quote We all know the nerf bat is coming. A nice rundown by Rayan Storm here - TLDR: everything will get nerfed because people don't understand rock-paper-scissors gameplay, don't like that their pet weapon/dropsuit/vehicle isn't invincible, and think "balance" is short-hand for "I own all." I have a modest proposal that will fix this. On 22nd at open beta launch, introduce a new weapon. Let's call it "Full Auto BFG." Here some features of the weapon: Causes splash damage, enough to take down a heavy from 10 meters Kills a HAV or a dropship with a single direct hit Full auto, all the time Sucks up thrown grenades, attaches a homing device to them, and sends them back at the thrower Automatically repairs and revives every merc within 25m Automatically repairs vehicles within 25m Works as a nanohive for all friendlies within 10m Works as a drop uplink Cuts down your scan profile by 50%, and improves your scanning accuracy and radius by 50% Adds 100% to your shields when wielded Has enough ammo to last a whole Skirmish match No reloads. Ever. (this is important): make the required skills and pricing so that a random player would see it in use perhaps once a week tops. It must not require AUR to buy. "But that's OP!" Yes it is, but that's the whole point! If there is a weapon in the game that is so OP that the wielder plows through entire platoons of Imperfects, everyone can finally agree on something to nerf. Quote: The point is to direct attention away from perceived imbalances which are actually game mechanics working as designed. In a few days of epic forum QQing CCP should say "after thorough investigation, we have decided that the splash damage should be reduced by 25%". After another few days they might take away the uplink feature. They could stretch this thing for months! In the meanwhile, the rest of us could continue playing a game, and the QQers would just rage on forums about Full Auto BFG, leaving the rest of the game intact. Thoughts?
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2013.01.16 10:57:00 - [2] - Quote lol
Jackof All-Trades Bojo's School of the Trades 79	Posted - 2013.01.16 11:07:00 - [3] - Quote Mate, I don't care about what anyone says. You're a bloody genius.
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2013.01.16 13:00:00 - [4] - Quote I love the spirit of this post. I am really annoyed with all the whining about things being OP. I myself have been fine with every weapon this game had, as it was before the nerf. Even the ridiculous Swarm Launcher doing full damage against Infantry was fine in my opinion. It reminded me of the rocket launcher from HALO. There were ways around it, and it was only OP in CQC, which again, I was fine with as a CQC player. Things should seem OP because of the amazing technology behind these weapons. I do not care about what people consider realistic when playing a science fiction based shooter. The sad thing is how many of the 'hardcore' gamers are the ones whining. I do not care if something allows a noob to kill your great leetness. Deal with it! Get good... learn to adapt. Blah blah blah... I would actually love to see Swarm Launchers doing damage against players again. I should not be able to run up to a guy with a missile launcher on his shoulder and shoot at him without care as if he was a harmless child. I want him to blow us both up, or just me with a well placed shot.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.16 17:37:00 - [5] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: I love the spirit of this post. I am really annoyed with all the whining about things being OP. I myself have been fine with every weapon this game had, as it was before the nerf. Even the ridiculous Swarm Launcher doing full damage against Infantry was fine in my opinion. It reminded me of the rocket launcher from HALO. There were ways around it, and it was only OP in CQC, which again, I was fine with as a CQC player. Things should seem OP because of the amazing technology behind these weapons. I do not care about what people consider realistic when playing a science fiction based shooter. The sad thing is how many of the 'hardcore' gamers are the ones whining. I do not care if something allows a noob to kill your great leetness. Deal with it! Get good... learn to adapt. Blah blah blah... I would actually love to see Swarm Launchers doing damage against players again. I should not be able to run up to a guy with a missile launcher on his shoulder and shoot at him without care as if he was a harmless child. I want him to blow us both up, or just me with a well placed shot. Just wait for the Plasma Cannon. It's going to be just as bad and they'll eventually take away it's dumb-fire mechanic.
Rayan Storm ZionTCD Legacy Rising 360	Posted - 2013.01.16 23:38:00 - [6] - Quote I like how you referenced me. Heehee. Thanks.
Rayan Storm ZionTCD Legacy Rising 360	Posted - 2013.01.16 23:40:00 - [7] - Quote Great post. Only one thing. What if that weapon drives everyone away,,,,?
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 36	Posted - 2013.01.16 23:59:00 - [8] - Quote LOL Usually when I say that (LOL) I never actually mutter a sound. This time I really was lol. Genius idea lets get this implemented ASAP.
Rayan Storm ZionTCD Legacy Rising 360	Posted - 2013.01.17 02:27:00 - [9] - Quote bump for troofies, not roofies!
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.01.17 02:35:00 - [10] - Quote You forgot -Heals user by 100 shields and 100 armor per second

Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.17 02:41:00 - [11] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: You forgot -Heals user by 100 shields and 100 armor per second this feature has been determined to be overpowered slightly. the effect will only operate for ten seconds after pulling the trigger This effect may trigger only once every two seconds, and can only stack three times.
Ner'Zul Nexhawk Talos Incorporated 154	Posted - 2013.01.17 03:26:00 - [12] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: We all know the nerf bat is coming. A nice rundown by Rayan Storm here - TLDR: everything will get nerfed because people don't understand rock-paper-scissors gameplay, don't like that their pet weapon/dropsuit/vehicle isn't invincible, and think "balance" is short-hand for "I own all." I have a modest proposal that will fix this. On 22nd at open beta launch, introduce a new weapon. Let's call it "Full Auto BFG." Here some features of the weapon: Causes splash damage, enough to take down a heavy from 10 meters Kills a HAV or a dropship with a single direct hit Full auto, all the time Sucks up thrown grenades, attaches a homing device to them, and sends them back at the thrower Automatically repairs and revives every merc with 25m Automatically repairs vehicles within 25m Works as a nanohive for all friendlies within 10m Works as a drop uplink Cuts down your scan profile by 50%, and your scanning accuracy and radius by 50% Adds 100% to your shields when used Has enough ammo to last a whole Skirmish match No reloads. Ever. (this is important): make the required skills and pricing so that a random player would see it in use perhaps once a week tops. It must not require AUR to buy. "But that's OP!" Yes it is, but that's the whole point! If there is a weapon in the game that is so OP that the wielder plows through entire platoons of Imperfects, everyone can finally agree on something to nerf. Quote: The point is to direct attention away from perceived imbalances which are actually game mechanics working as designed. In a few days of epic forum QQing CCP should say "after thorough investigation, we have decided that the splash damage should be reduced by 25%". After another few days they might take away the uplink feature. They could stretch this thing for months! In the meanwhile, the rest of us could continue playing a game, and the QQers would just rage on forums about Full Auto BFG, leaving the rest of the game intact. Thoughts? Congratulations, sir. You just made my day. +over9000 Seriously, a genius idea. No more "OP this, OP that, need all". Auto BFG FTW! Breakin Stuff wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: You forgot -Heals user by 100 shields and 100 armor per second this feature has been determined to be overpowered slightly. the effect will only operate for ten seconds after pulling the trigger This effect may trigger only once every two seconds, and can only stack three times. - That is still overpowered! How are we supposed to kill them? - After your feedback it has been decided to implement the following: the total amount of shields and armor healed by a BFG user in a one-minute period cannot exceed 27,500 HP cumulatively for both stats. However, when the cap has been reached, BFG will offer a passive 50% resistance to all types of damage except OB. And now we are actively discussing adding a feature where a user's BFG will negate all enemy repair activities (that is, BFG healing, Repair tools and modules, etc.) in a radius of 50 meters. Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. And so on for a year.
Ner'Zul Nexhawk Talos Incorporated 154	Posted - 2013.01.17 03:26:00 - [13] - Quote Sorry, accidentally double-posted the same thing.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2013.01.17 03:31:00 - [14] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: We all know the nerf bat is coming. A nice rundown by Rayan Storm here - TLDR: everything will get nerfed because people don't understand rock-paper-scissors gameplay, don't like that their pet weapon/dropsuit/vehicle isn't invincible, and think "balance" is short-hand for "I own all." I have a modest proposal that will fix this. On 22nd at open beta launch, introduce a new weapon. Let's call it "Full Auto BFG." Here some features of the weapon: Causes splash damage, enough to take down a heavy from 10 meters Kills a HAV or a dropship with a single direct hit Full auto, all the time Sucks up thrown grenades, attaches a homing device to them, and sends them back at the thrower Automatically repairs and revives every merc with 25m Automatically repairs vehicles within 25m Works as a nanohive for all friendlies within 10m Works as a drop uplink Cuts down your scan profile by 50%, and your scanning accuracy and radius by 50% Adds 100% to your shields when used Has enough ammo to last a whole Skirmish match No reloads. Ever. (this is important): make the required skills and pricing so that a random player would see it in use perhaps once a week tops. It must not require AUR to buy. "But that's OP!" Yes it is, but that's the whole point! If there is a weapon in the game that is so OP that the wielder plows through entire platoons of Imperfects, everyone can finally agree on something to nerf. Quote: The point is to direct attention away from perceived imbalances which are actually game mechanics working as designed. In a few days of epic forum QQing CCP should say "after thorough investigation, we have decided that the splash damage should be reduced by 25%". After another few days they might take away the uplink feature. They could stretch this thing for months! In the meanwhile, the rest of us could continue playing a game, and the QQers would just rage on forums about Full Auto BFG, leaving the rest of the game intact. Thoughts? I love you man. No homo.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.18 01:57:00 - [15] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I love you man. No homo. Thank you, good sir. No homo hugs all around.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.18 13:39:00 - [16] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Quote: The point is to direct attention away from perceived imbalances which are actually game mechanics working as designed. Your post is all nice and fun. But saying that everything is a game mechanics working as intended is ridiculous. Sorry to burst the bubble of fun but it's true. And then, you have issues that arent about balance but about the type of FPS CCP wants to release. A noob-assisted FPS with obvious win button such as 2sec grenades ? Or a FPS that rewards player for both their choice in fitting and their own skill at aiming and moving smartly on the battlefield ? At the moment, it feels like there are plenty easy win button : - Nades as i mentionned already - Fake snipes that are insta-hit and require no skill whatsoever - Pray and spray HMG that is accurate as hell 1st bullet and as far as 30m (and people dont have sharpshooter at a high level yet) On the other hand, there are stuff that tends to limit players in using their own skills and make them more relevant : - Headshot multiplier that arent especially that hurtfull except for scrambler pistols or the lack of other area in the hitbox aka "go scrub, aim at the feet it doesnt matter" - Movement speed that feels like a 10y-old game aka "go scrub, maybe you can aim at that slow dude" Sometimes it's not a matter of OP or not. It's a matter of smooth gameplay and a conflict between different views on what a FPS should be focus on. To me, individual skill should alway prevail on any equipment\weapon.
Vaerana Myshtana ScIdama Endless Renaissance 205	Posted - 2013.01.18 13:49:00 - [17] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: Thoughts? +1 You forgot one thing though: -Automatically seeks out and kills snipers, even if they are behind the redline 2km away.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 155	Posted - 2013.01.18 13:58:00 - [18] - Quote Or we could give everyone proto gear at the start, and the militia gear is most expensive. Then people can't complain about veterans having skill as well as equipment advantage. Skill will be balanced by gradually weaker equipment.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.18 18:55:00 - [19] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: At the moment, it feels like there are plenty easy win button : - Nades as i mentionned already - Fake snipes that are insta-hit and require no skill whatsoever - Pray and spray HMG that is accurate as hell 1st bullet and as far as 30m (and people dont have sharpshooter at a high level yet) All of the above are perfectly viable tactics, and can be thus countered with counter-measures. All of the above exist in other games, and us FPS players don't *** and moan for weeks on end on forums about them. Adapt or perish. This is EVE universe, not carebear central. Quote: On the other hand, there are stuff that tends to limit players in using their own skills and make them more relevant : - Headshot multiplier that arent especially that hurtfull except for scrambler pistols or the lack of other area in the hitbox aka "go scrub, aim at the feet it doesnt matter" - Movement speed that feels like a 10y-old game aka "go scrub, maybe you can aim at that slow dude" Headshot multiplier for pistols is a bit strange for me as well, but I can understand its introduction to balance pistols. In any case it is hardly gamebreaking. I don't know what the latter means. Movement speed is fine; I play a shottie scout and he's fast and agile, while heavies are appropriately slow and cumbersome - but hit really hard. Quote:** Sometimes it's not a matter of OP or not. It's a matter of smooth gameplay and a conflict between different views on what a FPS should be focus on. To me, individual skill should alway prevail on any equipment\weapon. While I agree on your premise here, that ship has sailed a long time ago. SP and AUR weapons are not going anywhere, and SP will always give an edge to those with more time to kill playing games and/or those who've been playing Dust for longer. So you'll have to play another game if you want to avoid that. You might know that most modern FPSs forgo purely skill-based gameplay for various unlock systems, or plain P2W.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.22 13:35:00 - [20] - Quote bump for n00bs - it could be much worse!



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