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Sleepy Zan
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Posted - 2013.01.20 01:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:OH and anyone saying i'm just getting free kills why not acturally try sniping and see how well you do cause while it may be easy for me since I snipe in just about every fps game I play but there are many I have watched who could take like 10 shots and maybe hit the guy once and if you sneak up on me and kill me then good for you as I don't care about my warpoints or those so called free kills as my k/d means nothing to me I snipe for the pure sport of sniping and no one can tell me any different I sniped all through Precursor and for about a week during Codex. In Precursor I had a couple thousand kills and 10.something KDR, and in Codex I had a few hundred kills and 13.89 KDR. You can try and act like KDR means nothing, but snipers are about the only role in the game where KDR is a useful metric for determining skill. So don't try and act as if you have some kind of authority on sniping unique to yourself. That said, you are getting free kills for no effort. Playing as a solo sniper versus playing as solo infantry now, I spend more on my equipment as infantry, I get fewer kills, and while I'll get more WP because I'll revive/hack as I go along, I do so while having a much greater challenge in front of me. Snipers shooting me, enemy infantry of all types, LAVs trying to run me over, turrets shooting me, grenade spam every game... it's pretty undeniable that infantry is a lot more difficult and has less of a pay-off. Why should one of the safest roles in the game also be the most powerful, while requiring the least SP and being as hard as putting a dot on a target and pulling a trigger a couple times? KDR is as useful of a measurement of a sniper's skill as it is for anyone else. Bottom line is you can't use it since you don't know who is maintaining a high kdr while being useful and who is just padding with 10 kills per match. In a previous build I knew a sniper who had a KDR over 50, well over 1000 kills, and made 8-900 meter kills on plenty of occasions. I'm not saying he was a bad sniper at all but in many instances he would camp the same spot of the map for 3-10 kills per match. KDR is only useful to measure the progression of yourself, but in the long run it's too easy to get a high KDR while being useless for it to be a used to compare one player to another. |
Sleepy Zan
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2047
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Posted - 2013.01.20 09:06:00 -
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Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:KDR is as useful of a measurement of a sniper's skill as it is for anyone else. Bottom line is you can't use it since you don't know who is maintaining a high kdr while being useful and who is just padding with 10 kills per match. In a previous build I knew a sniper who had a KDR over 50, well over 1000 kills, and made 8-900 meter kills on plenty of occasions. I'm not saying he was a bad sniper at all but in many instances he would camp the same spot of the map for 3-10 kills per match. KDR is only useful to measure the progression of yourself, but in the long run it's too easy to get a high KDR while being useless for it to be a used to compare one player to another. In either case I didn't mention it to compare ***** sizes. And hear I am thinking that comparing a sniper's skill and **** size was the same thing. |
Sleepy Zan
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2047
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Posted - 2013.01.30 07:38:00 -
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2100 Angels wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Omg another stale thread about the same damn thing. I lost count. My popcorn got stale. And this one is a few pages long. Don't you guys get bored kicking this ball back and forth until it breaks? I'm not going to stop talking about sniper rifles until CCP decides to fix them. It's painfully obvious that they need to be totally reworked. I'm reminded of it every time I play Planetside 2, and use a sniper rifle that is actually designed to demand skill out of its user. Mars El'Theran wrote:If there are 5 Snipers on the hill, then there are less 5 players attempting to control points on the field, and you will win anyway. If it is ambush, then it really doesn't matter. Most games there are ~5 snipers on both teams. I hate to be the one to say this, but if you're constantly getting killed by snipers have you ever considered, you know, changing the way you play? Snipers are not OP. Snipers are extremely weak in any form of cqc and increasingly vulnerable at a medium range. That's the way it should be. At long range, snipers are at their strongest. At the risk of pointing out the obvious; the further away a sniper gets from the target, the smaller the target gets. This makes it very easy to avoid being sniped (especially if you know you're being targetted) by moving in an erratic and unpredictable manner, and increasingly difficult to hit a target. Have you ever tried sniping a target with an unpredictable movement pattern? It takes luck or a lot of skill to do consistently; a hell of a lot more than pointing and shooting with an AR. If you're standing still, you have nothing to complain about. You'd be surprised at how well you can develop mind reading abilities after sniping for a long period of time. |
Sleepy Zan
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2047
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Posted - 2013.01.30 20:33:00 -
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2100 Angels wrote:Fivetimes Infinity wrote:
Gee whiz, what a brilliant idea. If only I'd have thought of "l2p nub" first!
My comments are not based on me frequently dying to snipers. I don't often die to snipers. I get wounded by snipers fairly often, but not killed. My opinion on snipers is, instead, based on my extensive experience as a sniper. I know how powerful, how little skill is required, and how safe being a sniper is. These factors don't add up. There's supposed to be a certain arithmetic to this stuff. A gun as powerful and easy to use as sniping should have some serious negatives. It doesn't. That's a problem.
But thanks for the amazing insight and brilliant tips on how to play this game, anyway. I'm sure all the people who've never played a video game before in their lives found your pro tips very educational.
So basically your argument is "omg snipers are taking away my precious shieldz plz nerf"? I don't understand. Lol my god you ignorant *******
2100 Angels wrote:what's the problem? If you're not getting killed, how does that make sniping easy mode? I think its been covered quite elaborately in this thread that the value of a sniper doesn't come from their KDR, but communication and ability to deny an area to the enemy. Now i'm not 100% sure about this, but if you were hiding in the hills hundreds of meters away, crouching or lying down with a sniper rifle, wouldn't you expect to be reasonably "safe"? you're not visible and you're detached from the battle. of course you would. No serious negatives? is that a joke? I don't know if you've noticed but have you tried using a sniper rifle at close/short-medium range? probability of a kill plummets while the probability of being killed sky rockets. qualifies as a "serious negative" to me. There are also visual cues giving away position, coupled with the fact that theres only 1 or 2 maps in which sniping can be done effectively without concern for other classes. I have spent a lot of time as a sniper, and a lot of time hunting snipers. *obviously* the threat of a sniper is determined by the skill of the person using it; Its a game mechanic easily adjusted for and I know I never worry about noobs wielding it.
But otherwise, cheers for the condescending and brattish response to my otherwise reasonable reply! You are having trouble comprehending what he is saying so I'll try to give it a go. As you said sniping from the hill top is reasonably "safe". The problem is there are no drawbacks to that safety you point and click just as you would at any range to the same effectiveness. There is no skill or risk involved what so ever to this method and I agree with him that it does not add up. Why should it be possible to avoid the risk other ground troops experience for less isk and without any downside. Are you beginning to understand.
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Sleepy Zan
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2047
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Posted - 2013.01.30 20:42:00 -
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Felix Lekhner2 wrote:really. a thread about sniper rifles being OP? you're probably high I doubt most people think snipers need a nerf, they just need to be "fixed"
Give us ballistics CCP, you said you would |
Sleepy Zan
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2047
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Posted - 2013.01.31 01:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
2100 Angels wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:You are having trouble comprehending what he is saying so I'll try to give it a go. As you said sniping from the hill top is reasonably "safe". The problem is there are no drawbacks to that safety you point and click just as you would at any range to the same effectiveness. There is no skill or risk involved what so ever to this method and I agree with him that it does not add up. Why should it be possible to avoid the risk other ground troops experience for less isk and without any downside. Are you beginning to understand. Oh dear. I understood what he was saying you arrogant ****. MY point was that regardless of how good a snipers KDR is they are not "useful" and have trouble affecting the outcome of a match unless they are contributing to team goals i.e. overwatch of objectives, communicating enemy movements or generally providing specific area denial. This is a drawback of the class as it does not engage in combat the same way an assault or heavy class does (generally to push, capture or defend points by nature), and is very open to be used counter-productively. There is always some form of risk to a sniper, regardless of how relatively "safe" it is. If other snipers aren't hunting for you, then either you're not doing a very good job or they aren't. Maybe there should be another counter class, I personally don't see a problem with a class being its own counter but maybe that's just me. Clearly still don't understand
It has nothing to do with being useful to your team and whether or not you are can't be viewed as a drawback to sniping since many people don't care.
Lets try again, Sniping is too easy, in order to fix that there needs to be added difficulty the more you exploit your range advantage. Yes being counter sniped is the only risk and probably will always be the only risk other than some vehicles, but it's easily avoidable and easy enough to get just as many if not more kills as any other form of infantry for less risk.
Added difficulty is required, example: Ballistics added and the return of sway between shots. That would be a good fix. I hope you understand the point now, if not nothing more I can do about you. |
Sleepy Zan
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2047
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Posted - 2013.01.31 01:58:00 -
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2100 Angels wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Clearly still don't understandIt has nothing to do with being useful to your team and whether or not you are can't be viewed as a drawback to sniping since many people don't care. Ohhhh right. you're concerned about the KDR and not team mechanics! gotcha! people don't care? I hear all the time about how people have deadweight snipers not doing **** for the team, not helping with objectives. If not used correctly, a sniper is relatively useless. Of course that's relevant and is a good balancing mechanic. This is a team based game where corporations fight each other and are coordinated about it. It's not like hordes of snipers run amok crushing everything in their scopes in pub matches either. *snipped personal attack* - CCP Eterne
I meant it's the snipers that don't care, they have an easy way to get kills for very few deaths so why should they care about the rest of the team?
2100 Angels wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Lets try again, Sniping is too easy, in order to fix that there needs to be added difficulty the more you exploit your range advantage. Yes being counter sniped is the only risk and probably will always be the only risk other than some vehicles, but it's easily avoidable and easy enough to get just as many if not more kills as any other form of infantry for less risk.
Added difficulty is required, example: Ballistics added and the return of sway between shots. That would be a good fix. I hope you understand the point now, if not nothing more I can do about you. I understand perfectly what you're saying. I just disagree. Why do you disagree? |
Sleepy Zan
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2047
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Posted - 2013.01.31 16:38:00 -
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2100 Angels wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Now your just acting idiotic, I meant it's the snipers that don't care, they have an easy way to get kills for very few deaths so why should they care about the rest of the team? *snipped personal attacks and inappropriate language* - CCP Eterne if the snipers don't care, and are just going for kdr, who gives a ****? let them go for their life. They will likely not receive any team support making them easier to kill and not make any meaningful contribution to the outcome of the game. I've generally found its not an issue as adapting my playing style so as not to get killed is not hard. You must not have gone up against any experienced snipers, and I give a **** because it effects overall gameplay and I give **** how this game turns out.
2100 Angels wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Why do you disagree? I think that if you're playing against a decent team the class isn't as overpowered as you seem to imply. Of course snipers are going to get ridiculous amounts of kills and no deaths if playing a bunch of blueberries, but the same could be said for any class if played well. A sniper is not that hard to counter if you're any good. I'm sure you've had experience hunting snipers and ending kill streaks. "easy" is relative. I've had some matches where I've found it incredibly easy, and others where it's increasingly difficult to find any momentum. I never claimed it was OP this is more about the faults in sniping and helping to prevent things such as redline camping. Adding things like bullet drop and travel time creates more difficulty the more you exploit your advantages that previously had no downside. It helps change the tactics of some snipers or makes long range kills more rewarding it depends on their choices. Have you ever sniped or are you making these points from the self centered point of view of one class? |
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